Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[Silver Fang]

I forgot his name, but the penciller that also worked on Bunn uncanny, not Land.

Ken Lashley. A page of his Uncanny
Covert Agent Wisdom.jpg
He also did art for Gold I think. Personally, I'm not crazy about his art-style & preferred when Land was drawing.

[skyvolt2000]

So I just watched the first episode of Deadly Class. Granted, this is not a Marvel production or telling, but hear me out. For those of you who are unfamiliar, Deadly Class is like a school of mutants, only for assassins. Murderers, misanthropes, miscreants and psychopaths of all manner attend this school. I'm with it, cool concept so far. But then we get to the one token African American, Willie Lewis. He's obviously there to represent the urban criminal element. So why is it that he is the only pacifist in a den full of killers? How popular do you think that character is going to be? My best guess: not very.

That, in a nutshell, is the problem with African American male characters in most entertainment platforms. They are written to give the appearance of inclusivity, yet often shunted to subordinate roles. After just one episode, it's a safe bet that Willie won't become the next Master Lin, even though it would be awesome to have a pacifist teaching others when and how to deal death to those who deserve it. As it stands, Willie is just the poster boy for irony. He's incapable of dealing the very violence that has been visited upon him and those who look like him in one form or another since coming to this country. I only hope that his mother is a badass.

If they follow the comic-you won't have to worry about Willie for too long. He as to be "saved" by another character, cries like crazy about being excluded and I'll let you figure out the rest (think redneck sniper).
And in the comic you have a black woman in it.

Its racist if we infer that white writers can't do strong, alpha black Male characters but left to their own devices THIS is the crap we are given in comics, TV series and most times movies ...lookin' at you again movie Darwin that couldn't adapt to one little energy ball and went out like a hoe!

The issue is when you try to write that-the line starts to the LEFT of folks who take issue with that.

Remember Static? Static made all his OWN stuff in his comic. Yet in the tv show Gears made all of it.
Thunderball of Wrecking Crew is a Doctor who helped make Hulk. Black Panther is the only hero to address him as such.
Miles Morales learned to be a hero on his own not with a bunch of spider folks.
Black Panther made Falcon's wings and his own stuff. Movies show Tony Stark & Shuri doing that.
In Worlds Collide (Milestone & Superman books crossover) STATIC saved the day. Save series that saw Superman get his behind HANDED to him by Blood Syndicate. Interesting that crossover is NOT in trades.
Wonder why.....

Can anyone tell me if there has ever been a black male creator writing or drawing X-books?

Isn't this important?

Ray Anthony Height. He created Midnight Tiger for Action Labs. I want to say he did some X-Men Red and Wakanda Forever X-MEn.

Its not hard to write diverse characters if you think of them as people first, instead of character filling X quota.

How is that character filling a quota? Who decides that?

We keep seeing that claim from folks who DON'T read the books. They are offended because that POC is on the cover.
Or they are the ones screaming (blank) acts WHITE because he does not do what is STEREOTYPED for his race. Static says HI.

[Rumble]

I do think we need X-men writers who are men of color, women of color, and LGBT folks. I think if we could get this, then we wouldn't have so many stories that center folks like Cyclops, Wolverine, and Havok. My fear is that while Rosenberg will do great with Cyclops, is that Scott will once again serve as in the "insert" character for the writer(s).

Rosenberg has already discussed how he identifies with Alex. You don't see the usual crop of X-men writers discuss how they identify with Bishop, Synch, or Sunfire, etc. But they sure do love characters like Multiple Man...

I would love to see Leah Williams write more X-men because as an lgbt person she gets certain elements that the other writers will probably never understand. I am also thankful for Kelly Thompson and her role. We also need women of color of course. Marvel has some great women of color on some other books, and I would love to see them on X-men.

Most of us understand why diversity and representation matters. It matters so that we do not center only certain narratives and certain types of people. We all get more from diverse perspectives and experiences. Whether we realize or admit it, we all need diversity.

Agreed. More diversity is needed. In a perfect world you wouldn't need to harp on it because, yes, we could just bank on all of us being considerate humans who act right and give every or most characters a turn in the spotlight, especially over the span of years and decades.

But then again, in that perfect world, all those writers and editorial personnel would be diverse to begin with lol and there wouldn't be the problem of one predominant demographic behind the scenes writing stories that often only glorify/spotlight characters of that same demographic. That goes for race, gender, etc

[BishopsJuice91]

Ken Lashley. A page of his Uncanny
Covert Agent Wisdom.jpg
He also did art for Gold I think. Personally, I'm not crazy about his art-style & preferred when Land was drawing.

Greg Land? He’s way better than Land and you got his art in your avi

[Silver Fang]

Greg Land? He’s way better than Land and you got his art in your avi

Far as my avatar, it was a cute moment. I may like moments in a comic, but doesn't mean I like the art that came with it. lol

But, this was the only time where Lashley didn't draw Sabretooth fugly as Hell. If the art on my favorites suck, I can't get behind the artist.

Land gave a better Sabretooth more often
Sky Diving.jpg

compared to Lashley's huge -foreheaded, receding hairline, goblin-faced, looking mess.
Lashley Creed.jpg

But not just Sabretooth. Lashley often drew his characters with huge-ass foreheads. Check out Psylocke here.
Psylcoke forehead.jpg
And this isn't the worst offense. There was a really good example in Gold, but I forget the issue and would have to search.

[Silver Fang]

To get into another critique. One of my favorite Sabretooth x Monet scenes in Uncanny was diminished due to Lashley's art.
Lashley Art.jpg
1. What's with Sabretooth's GIANT foot with the infant toes attached?
2. Why does he have a penguin flipper instead of fingers?
3. I know she has the Emplate tongue's, but whatever Monet's hand is going, it doesn't look quite right.
4. Sabretooth has no mouth lol
5. Again, Lashley's Sabretooth is just ugly. lol And I hate when artists have him looking like a goblin. Seems to be a trend since Tyler Mane's horrific movie version.

[BishopsJuice91]

I’d argue that sabretooth should be portrayed as a ugly MFer....

[BroHomo]

I’d argue that sabretooth should be portrayed as a ugly MFer....

Second lol

[BishopsJuice91]

All characters shouldn’t be drawn pretty, and I absolutely hate Lands art but I’ve seen so much of it I’ve learned to tolerate it. But to not that good and def not better than that guy who drew Uncanny, he’s one of my favs right now, I think he did an awesome job on the book.

[Silver Fang]

I’d argue that sabretooth should be portrayed as a ugly MFer....

I never agreed. But this is only when it comes to male villains, where it's common to go out of the way depicted them as FUGLY, yet female villains are sexualized like crazy. I doubt many would say Mystique or Emma need to be drawn as ugly. lol

Everyone who's evil isn't always a goblin. And Sabretooth works better as a predator when he's a normal, or even handsome guy. It makes him blend better. Where he can wear suits & blend among people. Without being depicted as half-animal.
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A classic example in the 70's or 80's comic where he fights Werewolf by Night. He's was at a strip joint where he leaves, taking a girl with him for the night -which wouldn't be happening with him looking like a troll.

His intentions were not close to pure, and when Jack shows up to help, some humans hear the commotion & shoot him to protect Sabretooth, who was the more human looking of the two.
Predator (7).jpg
I think that's even more dangerous than the typical "I'm so ugly because I am evil, run screaming when you see me" depiction.

But it depends on taste, and your fandom. As a fan of Sabetooth, I prefer him looking more normal & human.

Of course people who hate him probably will agree he should be ugly. He was drawn as a handsome guy in the late 80's into the 90's for the most part. Around the 2000's when he started becoming a complete joke, it came with more artists going out of their way to make him ugly as possible and half-animal incapable of walking erect.

[BroHomo]

I don't hate Sabretooth as a villian but I want him to be ugly AF

[Silver Fang]

I never did.

Good-looking Sabretooth with his fangs + claws was always better to me.
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Artists that make him ugly also make him look like a comedy joke villain. The ugliness doesn't make him look scary. Just pathetic. lol

Plus, on a completely shallow note when paired with Monet, or even Mystique which I hate, I think he needs to be handsome. Mystique's been going to him for sex consistently, so he doesn't need to look like the inside of someone's ass.

[Killerbee911]

How is that character filling a quota? Who decides that?
.

I have always wonder why people have problems with "quotas" . All new different X-men the point of them where they are diverse I mean Canadian male, German male, Russian male, Irish Male, Native American Male, Japanese Male and African Female. If every other X-men group that came after follow the example of that group we wouldn't have this topic. Black panther was created because they wanted a black superhero. If people want to see a quota as bad thing oh well. If things was happening naturally it wouldn't need to be forced and we have examples of when things are forced "oh yeah it turns out it was great idea". Never have I seen when some mentions "quotas" have they ever followed up that process fixed and they are even split or proportional split of things.

***

Nobody can sell me that always putting Black character or Asian character in books until eventually one catch on big time is a bad thing because nobody ever says always having at least one white person on a every team is a bad thing. I will say it again when was last time you saw Forge,Moonstar and Warpath on a team? When was the last time you Jubilee,Karma and Sunfire on a team? How about M,Bishop and Storm? They will comfortable put on 10 person team put 8 white people but anything more than 2 minority of same minority feels like to much. And X-men roster is so ahead of the curve of any other comic around the X-men can put Iceman, Northstar, Rictor,Prodigy, Shatterstar and Anole on a team or story have convo about sexality, The X-men can have Dust and M have conversation muslim women wearing Hijabs,burkas or other forms covering, The X-men can Sunspot, Magma and Celia Reyes can have a convo about colorism in the latino community. X-men can do things other comics have to make characters to do but instead we get Psylocke and Angel or Colossus and Kitty in variations of the same freaking story.

[DragonsChi]

I have always wonder why people have problems with "quotas" . All new different X-men the point of them where they are diverse I mean Canadian male, German male, Russian male, Irish Male, Native American Male, Japanese Male and African Female. If every other X-men group that came after follow the example of that group we wouldn't have this topic. Black panther was created because they wanted a black superhero. If people want to see a quota as bad thing oh well. If things was happening naturally it wouldn't need to be forced and we have examples of when things are forced "oh yeah it turns out it was great idea". Never have I seen when some mentions "quotas" have they ever followed up that process fixed and they are even split or proportional split of things.

***

Nobody can sell me that always putting Black character or Asian character in books until eventually one catch on big time is a bad thing because nobody ever says always having at least one white person on a every team is a bad thing. I will say it again when was last time you saw Forge,Moonstar and Warpath on a team? When was the last time you Jubilee,Karma and Sunfire on a team? How about M,Bishop and Storm? They will comfortable put on 10 person team put 8 white people but anything more than 2 minority of same minority feels like to much. And X-men roster is so ahead of the curve of any other comic around the X-men can put Iceman, Northstar, Rictor,Prodigy, Shatterstar and Anole on a team or story have convo about sexality, The X-men can have Dust and M have conversation muslim women wearing Hijabs,burkas or other forms covering, The X-men can Sunspot, Magma and Celia Reyes can have a convo about colorism in the latino community. X-men can do things other comics have to make characters to do but instead we get Psylocke and Angel or Colossus and Kitty in variations of the same freaking story.

Having a quota and being treated like a quota is two different things. Being treated like a quota is where you have a character be there only pronounce their sexuality to the room. Or perform or say some stereotypical act. Or to just appear on the cover yet be a background character for the whole title.

Quota's are an issue if characters are going to be expressive furniture instead of real characters. Writers should treat diverse characters as they would any other. A means to tell good stories. A path to explore. Stars in their own right. They should not write them as diverse character X is what I'm saying. Instead they should write them as individuals.

Give people reasons to want more of them. If a writer is going to write them as a quota, in my opinion, it's just as bad as not using them at all. Because it doesn't solve the issue.

[Killerbee911]

Having a quota and being treated like a quota is two different things. Being treated like a quota is where you have a character be there only pronounce their sexuality to the room. Or perform or say some stereotypical act. Or to just appear on the cover yet be a background character for the whole title.

Quota's are an issue if characters are going to be expressive furniture instead of real characters. Writers should treat diverse characters as they would any other. A means to tell good stories. A path to explore. Stars in their own right. They should not write them as diverse character X is what I'm saying. Instead they should write them as individuals.

Give people reasons to want more of them. If a writer is going to write them as a quota, in my opinion, it's just as bad as not using them at all. Because it doesn't solve the issue.

People say this and it is true to some level but the reality is even if they are treating the character as quota it still has net positive effect. In real life there is the Rooney Rule in the NFL where you have to interview a minority Head coaching candidate and even though NFL teams get around this by just interviewing a person to get out the way. The process puts the minority coach name out as head coach candidate and the black coach gets a interview and using knowledge from interview they do better on the next one and couple minority coaches have been hired like this. In comics it is the same way sometimes okay one writer A doesn't want to use Sunspot so he writes him in the background and doesn't really use him but he still on the team and in one story the writer A was forced to use Sunspot more than usual. One day when Writer A run is closed Writer B takes over and Writer B has read writer A stuff and he likes the story where Sunspot got more shine than usual and on Writer B run Sunspot gets more shine. The remember comics is visual platform so even while was kinda in background of stories the A-list artist gave him a amazing design which fans love so now fans are email/tweeting editors about how they love this character and since the line has a great editor they understand that Sunspot is hot property.

They are very few case when using a character is so bad it invalidate using. Being in limbo/not used is almost always way worse. Which character are you more confident about seeing in the future Maggot or Synch,Darwin,Bedlam,etc? The answer is Maggot