Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[Anthony Shaw]

I'm in support of a "Black" bishop-- even if his "official" background is Australian-indigenous, (largely, what, the rationale that he has long, frizzy hair, and therefore he could 'never' be African-American-descended? Sheesh..) I'd really be ticked off if some writer took the time out to have him say to someone "hey I'm not Black, I'm...." Nah, I'm not feeling that at all..

A part of me always thought Bishop may have been partially based on singer/songwriter Nick Ashford (RIP).

[superjosh]

Weeeeel it's probably more likely that the X-Men mainstream exposure has been little more then the Fox movies in recent years. Once upon a time every kid in America sat down on week day afternoons to watch these things called cartoons. Oh and get this.....it was free. That is as long as you had working electricity and a TV. All joking aside, basically you had a very broad audience with little competition for kids attention.

Over the years as what we consumed changed and how it was delivered changed it kinda played counter to what could become mainstream successful. As far as things related to comics and cartoons were concerned anyway. If everybody watched the same streaming service instead of having a billion different ones to choose from you might be able to do a new X-Men series and introduce some new characters. Have em become mainstream and popular ala Harley Quinn or to a lesser extent X-23. But with all the stuff vying for the youth crowds attention these days its almost a toss up to get a character to be popular.

I will note Ms Marvel managed to come up through the comics alone but they've been pushing her hard. Really REALLY hard. She is in everything now. She might actually be the modern Wolverine or Spider-Man when it comes to guest starring or supporting cast.

I mean, that's not exactly contradictory to what I was saying. It's basically a lack of attempting to try anything new and that is exactly the opposite of progress. I know at the end of the day it's going to be about the bottom line, but again introducing (and actively promoting) Miles and Kamala are decent examples of at least some effort. Disney/MCU (and later Sony) deciding to use Peter Parker agaaaaaaaain for the third franchise (when the previous franchise was active only TWO years before)... not progress.

[Huntsman Spider]

That could be the superficial problem. The root of the problem though is the editorial staff or whomever is in charge. A writer will try to make a character popular, but then that'll be tossed away with the next storyline or next creative team. There just needs to be a commitment to developing newer characters and introducing more diversity.

And then there's the reader/fan pushback... which is the really ugly part. Whenever a character like Miles Morales or Kamala Khan are introduced, out from the woodwork come all the "I'm not racist/sexist, but..." types ready to dismiss any attempt at diversity as PC/SJW agendas. I hate this type so much. They are the true barriers to progress.

There have been some pushes for diversity. Lobdell introduced Maggot and Cecilia Reyes. He also introduced that wacky replacement team during the Eve of Destruction run. That was kind of weird. But again, the next phase comes along and it's all gone. Morrison introduced a lot of diversity, but it seems like only his snobby white characters really maintained their popularity....

Same, although I think the real barrier to meaningful progress in entertainment and other media is that corporations will always default to where or what they think the most certain and reliable source of profits is, so they might dabble in or tease greater diversity, inclusivity, and representation, but they'll always go back to default because that's where they think the real money is.

Weeeeel it's probably more likely that the X-Men mainstream exposure has been little more then the Fox movies in recent years. Once upon a time every kid in America sat down on week day afternoons to watch these things called cartoons. Oh and get this.....it was free. That is as long as you had working electricity and a TV. All joking aside, basically you had a very broad audience with little competition for kids attention.

Over the years as what we consumed changed and how it was delivered changed it kinda played counter to what could become mainstream successful. As far as things related to comics and cartoons were concerned anyway. If everybody watched the same streaming service instead of having a billion different ones to choose from you might be able to do a new X-Men series and introduce some new characters. Have em become mainstream and popular ala Harley Quinn or to a lesser extent X-23. But with all the stuff vying for the youth crowds attention these days its almost a toss up to get a character to be popular.

I will note Ms Marvel managed to come up through the comics alone but they've been pushing her hard. Really REALLY hard. She is in everything now. She might actually be the modern Wolverine or Spider-Man when it comes to guest starring or supporting cast.

I'd add that Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) has also appeared in the latter three seasons of Avengers Assemble (Ultron Revolution, Secret Wars, and Black Panther's Quest) and Marvel's Spider-Man (the cartoon), not to mention is one of the starring characters of the Marvel Rising series aimed at girls, so there's been plenty of effort to get her out there on TV as well, even if it's just animation for now. Plus, she's one of the main characters, if not the main character, of the Avengers video game by Square-Enix coming out this September.

[superjosh]

Same, although I think the real barrier to meaningful progress in entertainment and other media is that corporations will always default to where or what they think the most certain and reliable source of profits is, so they might dabble in or tease greater diversity, inclusivity, and representation, but they'll always go back to default because that's where they think the real money is.

Yeah exactly! It's like...hmm... let's go with Peter Parker again. Miles can be in the animated version. <Everyone pats themselves on the back>

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Into the Spider-Verse and I'm glad they put that much effort into making it. But it's still a much smaller deal than the live-action movies.

[Harasar]

I never saw Bishop as representative of POC. He look like one, but his background is completely different. He was born and raised in dystopian future where he was mistreated because he was mutant, not because he was black. All mutants were treated the same, it didnt matter what is their skin color or where they were born - if they were mutants then they were branded and put into concentration camp. IMHO, Bishop could have been white or asian, with ancestors from any country, and none of this would change his character.

Personally, I want to see more diversity, and not just on surface, appearance, level. Let character's race, nationality, culture, religion, etc. really affect their behavior and not just be some written facts. X-Men has a lot of characters from all around the world, but most of the time they act and speak not any different from each other, so if you don't know their origin, they can be easily seen as yet another white american. For example, Monet is quite similar to Emma, both give me the same impression of arrogant snobbish white rich woman, even though Monet supposed to be black and muslim, I cant remember when it affected her behavior.

[rdman]

writing and editors

[yogaflame]

Nice deep dive into Australian Aboriginals. I can see some Bishops and Shards in there. Fascinating stuff. This would be interesting story to work into the X-Books.

[dkrook]

I mean, "Black" is an invented term. It's not even real. There are Nilotics, Bantus, Khoi San, Pygmies, Horn of Africa, and Madagascar, to name a few, that are all 'Black', all 'African', but they are all quite distinct genetically and culturally. In regards to the notion of the African Diaspora, and Pan-Africanism, the natives of Australia(and Papua New Guinea and the various 'Negritos' of the Pacific Islands) do fit in, albeit from long, long ago. I mean, they are mostly of African origins, just from 50-100k years ago, and mixed with a some other races/species from their journey along the way. But in terms of what did White Europeans call them, and what do modern Aboriginals call themselves, Black is a completely true and fitting term. They are even participating in the BLM movement of late.

Bishop can be both of Australian Aboriginal origins and Black at the same time, even if it does complicate things on the surface.

Thanks for your points of clarity and making this simple to understand. I was scratching my head over another post trying to make some crazy statement that since aboriginals weren't "black" just because they are not on the African continent. Biological doesn't even support this.

[ciscostudent561]

worst part is they tried to ruin Bishop
but im not down with Marvel's character assassination
Bishop that dude
and Cyclops, well just read the sig kids

[Jackraow21]

I like Bishop. Since Cable’s a dorky kid with an alien sword now, Marvel should push Bishop more as their badass gun-toting X-man.

[Agent Z]

I never saw Bishop as representative of POC. He look like one, but his background is completely different. He was born and raised in dystopian future where he was mistreated because he was mutant, not because he was black. All mutants were treated the same, it didnt matter what is their skin color or where they were born - if they were mutants then they were branded and put into concentration camp. IMHO, Bishop could have been white or asian, with ancestors from any country, and none of this would change his character.

Personally, I want to see more diversity, and not just on surface, appearance, level. Let character's race, nationality, culture, religion, etc. really affect their behavior and not just be some written facts. X-Men has a lot of characters from all around the world, but most of the time they act and speak not any different from each other, so if you don't know their origin, they can be easily seen as yet another white american. For example, Monet is quite similar to Emma, both give me the same impression of arrogant snobbish white rich woman, even though Monet supposed to be black and muslim, I cant remember when it affected her behavior.

There is certainly room for exploring how one's cultural and racial background affects their everyday lives. Of course, a poc or lgbt character whose story doesn't necessarily revolve around that is equally valid and no two people from the same background will be entirely alike.

[Devaishwarya]

Nice deep dive into Australian Aboriginals. I can see some Bishops and Shards in there. Fascinating stuff. This would be interesting story to work into the X-Books.

This was...enlightening. The fockin Colonisers have much to answer for...So Mote It Be!

I wouldn't mind at all if they kept his Aboriginal genealogy. He's still clearly a PoC and an interesting one at that either way you splice it.

[Sutekh]

I like Bishop. Since Cable’s a dorky kid with an alien sword now, Marvel should push Bishop more as their badass gun-toting X-man.

Yes. Bishop totally owns that niche, now that Cable is just Quentin Quire 2.0.

[donpricetag]

I mean, "Black" is an invented term. It's not even real. There are Nilotics, Bantus, Khoi San, Pygmies, Horn of Africa, and Madagascar, to name a few, that are all 'Black', all 'African', but they are all quite distinct genetically and culturally. In regards to the notion of the African Diaspora, and Pan-Africanism, the natives of Australia(and Papua New Guinea and the various 'Negritos' of the Pacific Islands) do fit in, albeit from long, long ago. I mean, they are mostly of African origins, just from 50-100k years ago, and mixed with a some other races/species from their journey along the way. But in terms of what did White Europeans call them, and what do modern Aboriginals call themselves, Black is a completely true and fitting term. They are even participating in the BLM movement of late.

Bishop can be both of Australian Aboriginal origins and Black at the same time, even if it does complicate things on the surface.

Bruh, all terms are "invented".

I think the only part that complicated things just now was that explanation. Wow. Nah. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but when I say "black" in terms what I am and what Bishop was initially meant to be - is pretty simple. Whatever your going on about - again, kind of insulting, but I don't think you mean it that way, so... Yeah.

I understand my culture, my skin and the life I led due to both those factors. I'm sure this sociopolitical tip your on means well - but just because on the surface I may look similar to someone on the other side of planet, doesn't mean we're the same. Again, saying otherwise is insulting. The fact that someone participates in BLM events doesn't make much of a difference. It's appreciated but standing up for civil rights doesn't quantify who you are. It's "common" decency.

Personally, I wouldn't go around saying "black" is made up and people can consider themselves something because "x" reason. Your venturing into Rachel Dolezal territory.

Presumably Native Americans (North and South) traveled to this region across the Alaskan land bridge from Asia. Genetically there may be some cross over but if someone said you could consider them the same as let's say, Mongolians - it'd be ridiculous. You're talking about hundreds of differences in cultures and day to day life experiences over thousands of years. Recognizing and respecting those differences is important and necessary.

So, no. IMO Bishop cannot be considered both "just because". He's a darker toned minority for sure, but Marvel getting get away with this because he looks a certain way while maintaining a retcon that says otherwise - doesn't work for me. If it does for you... Ok. Again, I'm sure your not trying to be insulting.

[donpricetag]

He could be a mix of Australian Aborigine and African Australian. Mixed ancestry is totally a thing IRL, so there's no reason not to have it in comics too. Gateway is a great-grandfather. Bishop probably has 8 great-grandparents, what ethnicities are the other 7? Bishop's father looks a lot like Gateway, so presumably Gateway is on his father's side.

His sister Shard was seemingly born blond: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130722023546
It might be possible that it's a mutation, but seems unlikely. But neither her mother or father is a blond, so who knows?

Deathbird doesn't have particularly dark skin, but her daughter with Bishop did.

Nekra goes in the "Hideous deformity" category. Her motivations for becoming a supervillain were rooted in how her family treated her badly due to her unnaturally pasty complexion.

I agree. My point was that they'd have to retcon a retcon to fix it. I wasn't questioning the likelihood of him being of mixed origin. It's possible. Heck I'm mostly Black Jamaican but I also have blue eyed, blonde hair Scottish grandparent.