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  1. #1051
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend our power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.

    Even if that characterization isn't true of many of us, or even most of us, it's a *perception* that exists, and seems to perniciously affect how many (read: few, or none) powerful and significant black, Asian or Latino (or even Native American) *men* there created and used as X-Men, Justice League, Avengers, etc. And when it does get turned on it's head, say, with Stormwatch, a team led by Battalion, a pretty awesome and powerful black man, that team gets replaced by a bunch of white peeps, as the Authority, which sells a heck of a lot better, unfortunately.

    ** (And that's part of the delusion that needs to die, that comic books are ours. Unfortunately, it's catered so long to us, that's all it knows, and it's an uphill slog for marketing departments with no freaking clue how to attract the attention of potential customers who are not us white dudes to a product that, historically, has not been for them... And so they give it a stumbling half-hearted tone-deaf try, fail to get the sales numbers they want, throw their hands up and claim that they tried, and it's not their fault that 'fans wouldn't buy it.')
    Bravo! You're spot on with your observations. Extra points for being a white brotha that speak to this dynamic so insightfully. Needless to say its laughable that in 2020 fantasy has so many real world racial issues shot all throughout it. Btw that Stormwatch series pulled me from Marvel and DC. Right up to when they yanked Battalion and made the book just like the other 2 companies product.

  2. #1052
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    I totally agree with this post but honestly, The X-Men (and Marvel as a whole) would need more black writers to properly pull that off and that is the crux of the issue.
    That's it in a nutshell. More diverse writers equal more opportunities to have diverse characters. Not saying the default white writer can't do it but it they tend not to push hard or stick with the characters for long, especially when they are male.

  3. #1053
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend our power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.

    Even if that characterization isn't true of many of us, or even most of us, it's a *perception* that exists, and seems to perniciously affect how many (read: few, or none) powerful and significant black, Asian or Latino (or even Native American) *men* there created and used as X-Men, Justice League, Avengers, etc. And when it does get turned on it's head, say, with Stormwatch, a team led by Battalion, a pretty awesome and powerful black man, that team gets replaced by a bunch of white peeps, as the Authority, which sells a heck of a lot better, unfortunately.

    ** (And that's part of the delusion that needs to die, that comic books are ours. Unfortunately, it's catered so long to us, that's all it knows, and it's an uphill slog for marketing departments with no freaking clue how to attract the attention of potential customers who are not us white dudes to a product that, historically, has not been for them... And so they give it a stumbling half-hearted tone-deaf try, fail to get the sales numbers they want, throw their hands up and claim that they tried, and it's not their fault that 'fans wouldn't buy it.')
    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Gonna double up on this. Well said.

    Authority was brazen and brutal, but Stormwatch under Battalion had SO MUCH more style. It had a truly international cast!
    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bravo! You're spot on with your observations. Extra points for being a white brotha that speak to this dynamic so insightfully. Needless to say its laughable that in 2020 fantasy has so many real world racial issues shot all throughout it. Btw that Stormwatch series pulled me from Marvel and DC. Right up to when they yanked Battalion and made the book just like the other 2 companies product.
    Cosigning.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #1054

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    Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  5. #1055
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....
    And quite effectively, too.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #1056
    Spectacular Member Nimrod's Avatar
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    I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but calling Bishop black is putting a box for Americans to understand him. He is an Australian Aboriginal. You wanna talk about a group of persecuted people, previous government's literally tried to exterminate them and breed the black out through forced eugenics programs. The children were forcibly removed from their families and communities into religious institutions to educate them to force them into western culture. I hope someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread cause trust me, what was done the the indigenous societies of Australia is one of the worse crimes ever commited on "POC"s.

    Be nice to see that addressed in comics instead of the boring crap we get now.

    Be nice to see Bishops roots treated with some kind of respect.
    I am the ultimate hunter, come from the future to destroy you.

  7. #1057
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....
    There is some level happiness but caution is also involved

    Bishop is in Marauders
    Prodigy is X-factor AND repowered
    Synch and Darwin have role at worse in the flagship book( I think they are going to show up in a book)
    Sunspot is out in front in New Mutants
    Bedlam and Triage are alive

    But I have been a fan too long to get super excited. Let us met back 12-24 issues from now and see what real happens. I have seen enough quick hooks and characters treated like background ornaments and never developed to get too excited. But you can't be too critical at this stage because you can't catch on if you aren't being used and this is passing the first test. So let's see what happens from now on but from time this topic started to now there is actual progress forward so you have to commend that.

    And as small note while this topic is about black males not catching on, I think should be noted that Daken is around now X-factor and Asians males have it just as bad or worse. It would be nice to Sunfire and Neal Shaara get a shot in something.

  8. #1058
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend our power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.
    lol YUUUUP

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but calling Bishop black is putting a box for Americans to understand him. He is an Australian Aboriginal.
    Eh He's been black (American) in the 616 (future) world for a long time and was treated thusly. Not sure how Americans can understand him more....or misunderstood because his ethnicity got a little more refined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    Be nice to see that addressed in comics instead of the boring crap we get now.
    Bishop's past was addressed in a sh!tty AF mini. Not sure what you want the comics to address.....Bishop is a from waaaay into the future after the Aborigines faced their Genocide. Read Life and Times of Lucas Bishop....if you can
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    Be nice to see Bishops roots treated with some kind of respect.
    Eh see above. But tbh It kiiiiiinda feels like disrespect to take the most prominent black Xman and make it so there's an asterisk next to his blackness
    GrindrStone(D)

  9. #1059
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    Editors aren't helping either. I'm no maggot fan but according to Leah she wanted to use Maggot in X-force but of course Jordan no time for a Storm interview despite being in the room put the boot down White. I seriously feel we all need to shoot off a damn letter to Feige and asks what his thoughts are. But at least the x-men overall are trying to do better, i shudder to think what the books would look like right now if there wasn't so much behind the scenes change.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  10. #1060
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    There is some level happiness but caution is also involved

    Bishop is in Marauders
    Prodigy is X-factor AND repowered
    Synch and Darwin have role at worse in the flagship book( I think they are going to show up in a book)
    Sunspot is out in front in New Mutants
    Bedlam and Triage are alive

    But I have been a fan too long to get super excited. Let us met back 12-24 issues from now and see what real happens. I have seen enough quick hooks and characters treated like background ornaments and never developed to get too excited. But you can't be too critical at this stage because you can't catch on if you aren't being used and this is passing the first test. So let's see what happens from now on but from time this topic started to now there is actual progress forward so you have to commend that.

    And as small note while this topic is about black males not catching on, I think should be noted that Daken is around now X-factor and Asians males have it just as bad or worse. It would be nice to Sunfire and Neal Shaara get a shot in something.
    Exactly. Being in a book is one thing. Being used meaningfully and prominently is something else.

    We have not had that for any Black male or any other poc males on a regular basis.

  11. #1061
    Spectacular Member Nimrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol YUUUUP

    Eh He's been black (American) in the 616 (future) world for a long time and was treated thusly. Not sure how Americans can understand him more....or misunderstood because his ethnicity got a little more refined.


    Bishop's past was addressed in a sh!tty AF mini. Not sure what you want the comics to address.....Bishop is a from waaaay into the future after the Aborigines faced their Genocide. Read Life and Times of Lucas Bishop....if you can

    Eh see above. But tbh It kiiiiiinda feels like disrespect to take the most prominent black Xman and make it so there's an asterisk next to his blackness
    So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground. I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on.

    Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.

    As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.
    I am the ultimate hunter, come from the future to destroy you.

  12. #1062

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground. I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on.

    Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.

    As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.
    I agree with this 100%

    To forget history is...well...look what's happening now because of how much we forgot. It doesn't actually absolve what happened nor solve the problem that's still perpetuated.

  13. #1063
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    None of the Solos announced so far in the X-line features a character of color. I'm sure that plays a part as well.
    Why bother with pesky minorities when Cable can have his 30th failed solo.

  14. #1064
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground.
    Consisting He comes from a culture 1000 years from now Its likely I don't know his culture but hopefully a thousand years from now Aboriginals aren't as disenfranchised as today. And he left there when he was 3 years old and soon his parents died. He didn't have much of a chance to gain cultural habits but tbh his cultural background was never really beyond Black Cop from future not named Cable
    So In Bishop's case Yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on.
    I guess I'm not getting what specifically you think should be built on? His cultural background? Yeah I'm down if you referring to the stuff in the mini.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.
    Dude whhaaaat? Those 2 dudes from Crocodile Dundee? I Love them! Rabbit proof fence was a reeeeeeal eFFIN messed up movie...
    but FRFR I emphasize hard with Aborigines no disrespect to their culture that was definitely not my intention+++ it's not even remotely implied

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod View Post
    As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.
    I've been High before but the leaps you're taking as you jump to all these conclusions must be stratospheric

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I agree with this 100%

    To forget history is...well...look what's happening now because of how much we forgot. It doesn't actually absolve what happened nor solve the problem that's still perpetuated.
    What history have I forgotten? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Why bother with pesky minorities when Cable can have his 30th failed solo.
    I wanna know tons more about him Beast and Deadpool
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #1065
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Bishop’s Aborigine heritage is a cheap addition to a character than needs less cheap treatment.

    Also, Manifold exists.

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