Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[4sake Baned]

I find your optimism quite refreshing. However, several black male mutants have been introduced since Bishop. I thought they had great chances to be breakout characters. Most had interesting backstories. Most have crashed & burned either by depowerment, death, or both. Black male mutants typically fall off once the primary writer(s) who put in the initial development moves on from the series. My fear for Manifold will come whenever Ewing stops using the character. The next writer might need to do a scorched Earth story to establish the new incoming threat, and may use the black male mutants as fodder.



It's not just writers who have zero creativity, but very vocal fans.

Crazy enough, back in the 1980's, X-Men had a very significant black fan base. That was made known by the large black turnout at comic events. This was why Bishop was introduced as a black man in the first place, and probably why M, Synch, & the Bedlam Brothers were brought in a few years later. I'm not sure what happened to all the positive momentum.



I did not think you had to explain it, but I'm glad you did.

What happen was Bishop, M, Synch, the Bedlam Brothers & Sunspot were they never got a TRUE push, all either unwritten (all) going mosty in side books/rarely on the main team, randomly made villains (Bishop, T.C. Bedlam), whitewash ( Sunspot, M), sidelined for lone time periods (all), kill randomly/make a villain look good (J. Bedlam, Synch).. And the same issue still are happening for mosty part today..

Think if we would’ve gotten correctly written Bishop & T.C. Bedlam both were main team at the same time or each one would be main blue/gold team with O & CeCe.

Think if Synch wasn’t randomly killed After Genx ended there was a real push of a X Corp book - With him, M, Sunspot & others.

Think if J. Bedlam wasn’t randomly killed after NM/Force got to graduate to a main team with his Bro or was atleast in next NM/X-Force/Factor relaunch). Instead all the Black male characters were killed, depowered, man villain or turned white. That’s what happen to most of the good will with Black fans.. Then a few years afterwards they made Prodigy, Drawin & few others and did the same things.

[4sake Baned]

Bishop is a Great Captain of Krakoa that had to be told it was now time to lead a mission by Kitty. He is the only Captain that had no role in X of Swords. He didn't even want to join the HFC but Beast told him too in order to watch over Kitty. He didn't want to be the Red Bishop but he did and got put in his red suit to follow Kitty around and keep his mouth shut. A slave isn't just about someone someone that is owned by someone or works for free. A slave by definition can be someone that is stongly influenced or controlled by something. I used the word slave not slavery but feel free to put my words in my mouth

Can’t be better said

[Cane_danko]

Can’t be better said

I honestly feel it could be better said. We really going to use the webster dictionary to derive the connotations of slave vs slavery? Eh... poor taste. Just my opinion.

[9th.]

Synch deserves to be a field leader like Cyclops

[TheLimboBabies]

The characters are not distinct and interesting enough. The majority of the writers are probably not black men so they are less likely to create black characters. Don't think its a race thing, it is a predominately white country and industry.

[dkrook]

The characters are not distinct and interesting enough. The majority of the writers are probably not black men so they are less likely to create black characters. Don't think its a race thing, it is a predominately white country and industry.

Yes, and no! If none of these white male writers create some new black character. I don't mind that so much, and I think that is part the course for their experience in life. However when they take they take an established black nale character and kill him off in contrite manner or minimize them deliberately, that is racist behavior.

[Cane_danko]

Yes, and no! If none of these white male writers create some new black character. I don't mind that so much, and I think that is part the course for their experience in life. However when they take they take an established black nale character and kill him off in contrite manner or minimize them deliberately, that is racist behavior.

Most of the black characters have been created by white people. Killing off a black character is not racist behavior. I would like to know where some of you are coming up with this stuff? I’d be the first on board with more black writers working for marvel. I would be the last one to start making blanket accusations against the white writers for making creative decisions i disagree with. Are we deliberately trying to antagonize people or am i missing something in the equation?

[OblivionX33]

Most of the black characters have been created by white people. Killing off a black character is not racist behavior. I would like to know where some of you are coming up with this stuff? I’d be the first on board with more black writers working for marvel. I would be the last one to start making blanket accusations against the white writers for making creative decisions i disagree with. Are we deliberately trying to antagonize people or am i missing something in the equation?

You missing a whole host of underlying text in regards to how black characters are used in white centered media and comics is not different. Them killing or totally misusing black characters on a consistent basis can be read as racist, there's pattern to that type of "creative" descision making, when it's the easy one to make the majoirty of the time. As their roles are usually limited to being cannon fodder or a launching off point for other characters, that writers or the head office perfers aka another white creation. Less of a blanket accusation more of statement of fact in regards to the industry's history. But that's to be expected in a environment. Where it's overwhelming one demographic that was built around a culture that talks out of two sides of it's mouth...so i rather folks not beg them to do anything for other groups. If they can't even utilize the non-white characters that they created or got non-white creators to up-left and have done nothing with them or put them in shitty roles - it's fool's gold to think that things will change. Especially from the top - down.

[Silver Fang]

You missing a whole hostle of underlying text in regards to how black characters are used in white centered media and comics is not different. Them killing or totally misusing black characters on a consistent bias can be read as racist, there's pattern to that type of "creative" descision making, when it's the easy one to make the majoirty of the time. As their roles are usually limited to being cannon fodder or a launching off point for other characters, that writers or the head office perfers aka another white creation. Less of a blanket accusation more of statement of fact in regards to the industry's history. But that's to be expected in a environment. Where it's overwhelming one demographic that was built around a culture that talks out of two sides of it's mouth...so i rather folks not beg them to do anything for other groups. If they can't even utilize the non-white characters that they created or got non-white creators to up-left and have done nothing with them or put them in shitty roles - it's fool's gold to think that things will change. Especially from the top - down.

Yep. And not just Western. Anime & Manga do the same with its black characters. An old friend of mine was a huge anime nut, and had seen hundreds who shared that most of the time when black characters are used, they're very weak or around for comedy relief.

Shows how many cultures seem to view PoC. In fact, one of the most infamous examples in entertainment was WWE's feud of Triple H and Booker T. where the former says that "people like" Booker T. don't deserve to be champions and are around to be entertainment for people like him, with his "nappy head", then he tells Booker T. to do a dance for him. If that wasn't racist, and I am sure that was truth in television coming out given how bad that company is with their black talent, and Vince McMahon being a racist. It's certainly not coincidence most of the PoC tend to be fodder.

I'd almost rather racist folks in the entertainment industry just not use black people at all, rather than using them as token until they need comedy relief or red shirts.

[Cane_danko]

You missing a whole hostle of underlying text in regards to how black characters are used in white centered media and comics is not different. Them killing or totally misusing black characters on a consistent bias can be read as racist, there's pattern to that type of "creative" descision making, when it's the easy one to make the majoirty of the time. As their roles are usually limited to being cannon fodder or a launching off point for other characters, that writers or the head office perfers aka another white creation. Less of a blanket accusation more of statement of fact in regards to the industry's history. But that's to be expected in a system, where it's overwhelming one demographic that was built around a culture that talks out of two sides of it's mouth.

Comics have been different though. They have not always gotten it right for damn sure. We can look at luke cage and see that. The accusations you are making hold very little merit outside rhetoric. There has been a big push for the industry to be more inclusive. This will only increase as demands for heroes like black panther and storm increase in popularity. I think it is a blanket statement to make and i know that sounds confrontational and i don’t mean to disparage you. I am only saying that you are making an argument in bad faith and that makes it hard to get behind for me.

[BroHomo]

You missing a whole host of underlying text in regards to how black characters are used in white centered media and comics is not different. Them killing or totally misusing black characters on a consistent basis can be read as racist, there's pattern to that type of "creative" descision making, when it's the easy one to make the majoirty of the time. As their roles are usually limited to being cannon fodder or a launching off point for other characters,

This is all the Truth
It's less likely this is deliberate.It may be cycle of misuse created unbiasedly.
Writer A: depowers/kills off/limbo's black char in X-Men issue.
Kid B: Reads said issue as a kid
Writer B: writes X-Men...kills off closest equilivent char to story he read as a kid ano black char
Kid C: Reads said issue as a kid

[OblivionX33]

Comics have been different though. They have not always gotten it right for damn sure. We can look at luke cage and see that. The accusations you are making hold very little merit outside rhetoric. There has been a big push for the industry to be more inclusive. This will only increase as demands for heroes like black panther and storm increase in popularity. I think it is a blanket statement to make and i know that sounds confrontational and i don’t mean to disparage you. I am only saying that you are making an argument in bad faith and that makes it hard to get behind for me.

Black Panther and Storm being pushed now, doesn't address the 20 to 30 other black characters that have been used as nothing more than stage dressing...recently bias doesn't erase the past or present.

So for me as a black consumer. I don't need anyone else to vaildate my views on the subject, call it bad faith or a blanket statement. All you wish, but you aren't going dismiss my legitimate outlook on the matter ( i have read books on the industry in regards to this subject) as there's more than enough racist material or "off color" stuff in comic books that have been printed and edited right into book shops. That anyone with two brain cells could do a quick google search to find it - jive talk included.

Regardless. Two to three year's ago, i was of the strict mindset that both DC and Marvel - with the few black characters with backing, that they do have. Need to quit using them as window dressing or straight up, stop using them. Cause, rather or not guys see it. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S black creations and their real life counter parts continue to be exploited by those that use their image and stylzing to push sells. Shoot...just think about how tone deaf it is that X-men apes so much of black historical struggles but Storm is the only, black character that has a backing. While creations like Angel and lesser get bigger billing.

[Cane_danko]

Black Panther and Storm being pushed now, doesn't address the 20 to 30 other black characters that have been used as nothing more than stage dressing...recently bias doesn't erase the past or present.

So for me as a black consumer. I don't need anyone else to vaildate my views on the subject, call it bad faith or a blanket statement. All you wish, but you aren't going dismiss my legitimate outlook on the matter ( i have read books on the industry in regards to this subject) as there's more than enough racist material or "off color" stuff in comic books that have been printed and edited right into book shops. That anyone with two brain cells could do a quick google search to find it - jive talk included.

Regardless. Two to three year's ago, i was of the strict mind that both DC and Marvel need to stop using the few black characters that they do have - that have soild backing - as window dressing or straight up, stop using them. Cause, even if you guys see it or not. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S - black creations and their real life counter parts have and continue to be exploited by those that use their image and stylzing to push sells. Shoot...just think about how done deaf it is that X-men apes so much of black historical struggles but Storm is the only, black character that has a backing. While creations like Angel and lesser get bigger billing.

I will be the first to back you that black characters need a bigger focus. I l’ve felt bishop has been done incompetently since his inception. He is a cool character for sure but its obvious he does not garner the story time in respects to most the other xmen. And i am not trying to silence you in any way so i apologize if that is how it came across. I definitely do not agree with marvel giving up their established black characters despite anyone’s feelings. That would be a hard sell for me. I am not saying you are wrong and yeah i can admit i need to further educate myself on the underlying problem.

[OblivionX33]

I will be the first to back you that black characters need a bigger focus.

It's been long overdue but i don't see it changing much in a big way. Given the current climate of the internet calling any non-white centering "woke" or "forced diversity" any air of celebration is going to be meant by the indidivuals and forces that now have more of a voice. Making that bigger push, attract more negative attention to it...thus souring the moment. Of course to me it's "screw them bastards" but for companies that make money, word of mouth is king.

I l’ve felt bishop has been done incompetently since his inception. He is a cool character for sure but its obvious he does not garner the story time in respects to most the other xmen.

Bishop could be on the same level of Cable but instead it's just a timecop, that barely gets page time. Or if it doesn't have anything to do with killing Hope Summers - a storyline that paints him as the bad guy, no less. He's got nothing much else going for him. Despite having some top notch leadership and tactical qualities, to go along with has own harrowing past and jaded personality. You'd think he would be a more consistently pushed character but nope.

And i am not trying to silence you in any way so i apologize if that is how it came across. I definitely do not agree with marvel giving up their established black characters despite anyone’s feelings. That would be a hard sell for me. I am not saying you are wrong and yeah i can admit i need to further educate myself on the underlying problem.

It's okay. But i think it's best to not jump to conclusions, when it comes to accusation of racism. Most of the time it's used, by those indeeded - there's usually more than enough to back it up historically even in the creation that is X-men. Which it's creators deemed to be one of the premier faces of diversity in comicbooks. Yet, some folks used it to shield themselves from the realities of the world and not really, research the underlying factors that lead the X-office to use those truths and turn them into book events. So my mindset in the past, was a quazi-ultimatum to myself as a reader knowing that appoarch wasn't going to be a reality...so disagree away. lol

This is all the Truth
It's less likely this is deliberate.It may be cycle of misuse created unbiasedly.
Writer A: depowers/kills off/limbo's black char in X-Men issue.
Kid B: Reads said issue as a kid
Writer B: writes X-Men...kills off closest equilivent char to story he read as a kid ano black char
Kid C: Reads said issue as a kid

It's always a bit of both in my experience and research.

https://www.arkrepublic.com/2018/07/...age-of-comics/

Yep. And not just Western. Anime & Manga do the same with its black characters. An old friend of mine was a huge anime nut, and had seen hundreds who shared that most of the time when black characters are used, they're very weak or around for comedy relief.

Shows how many cultures seem to view PoC. In fact, one of the most infamous examples in entertainment was WWE's feud of Triple H and Booker T. where the former says that "people like" Booker T. don't deserve to be champions and are around to be entertainment for people like him, with his "nappy head", then he tells Booker T. to do a dance for him. If that wasn't racist, and I am sure that was truth in television coming out given how bad that company is with their black talent, and Vince McMahon being a racist. It's certainly not coincidence most of the PoC tend to be fodder.

I'd almost rather racist folks in the entertainment industry just not use black people at all, rather than using them as token until they need comedy relief or red shirts.

Precisely my thought process a few years back...

Yep and i was around when that happened in regards to that Triple H and Booker T super racist, WWE bit. Since it was Vince telling on himself and the rest of his product -part of the reason i stopped watching it, even more so after The Rock retired and Eddie's death. So, yeah it's clear that black characters and black creations. Regardless of where they spawn. Their roles are usually stereotypical or barebones and or worse cannon fodder for the most part and that can be proven over and over again. Although i'd say that Anime and Manga are getting better at this, espiecally since their teachers in this area was racist white media and their protrayals of the black population that they demonized 24/7. Coupled with japanese's own xenophobia and ignorance. What you saw and i came across was the result of that biased contamination.

[Anthony Shaw]

The writers Marvel hired did not really veré for any characters beyond whet they saw as classic white make characters. So they killed off or wrote out of the picture female and non white characters. There one good thing about Krakoa. These characters have been resurrected and Darwin and Synch finally got good use in X-Men 19.

The resurrection protocols was a brilliant move by Hickman.

However, the dark cloud circulating around that thought is that Hickman is responsible. Then there's Ewing for Manifold. Outside of those two, we have a chock full of shyt for writers! Those two have handled black male heroes from good to excellent. They aren't going to be long term, and the characters will be in others hands. That's the main issue, most of the writer on X-Men books seem to have no interest or ability to include black male mutants in a balanced and substantial way.

You know the pattern well.

As Anthony Shaw pointed out the fall from grace starts when the WRITER leaves and someone new shows up.

Generation X-Once Larry Hama left an Eliis showed up- Synch was DEAD.
New X-Men Academy-once that book ended Prodigy got chumped and dumped on in Antman.
Duke Thomas in the hands of any writer NOT named Snyder or Barnes at DC-gets CHUMPED.

Excluding Gail Simone, Stuart Moore, Dan Jolley & McDuffie-Jason Rsuch has been crapped on and is now in limbo. Crapped on by DC's TOP writers and Ronnie Raymond's creator.
Alex Wilder has not fared well since Runaways ended.
Cyborg has not fared well in the hands of writers NOT named Walker or Sempter Jr.
Static has not fared well under ANY writer or editor since 2011.

Do we EVEN need to discuss Black Panther since 2016? John Stewart since McDuffie? Hotspot since 1996 Teen Titans?
We will NOT talk Monica since the late 80s. Or Luke Cage before Bendis and after Priest in 1986. Night Thrasher? Luke Fox? Jakeem Thunder? Michael Holt before The Terrifics? Baby Doomsday? Supergirl's BLACK boyfriends? Steel? His niece? Aqualad? Flint of the Inhumans?

It can't be by accident we keep seeing this.

And when we bring it up-we get the blow off.

Where is the consistency?

You brought receipts.

What happen was Bishop, M, Synch, the Bedlam Brothers & Sunspot were they never got a TRUE push, all either unwritten (all) going mosty in side books/rarely on the main team, randomly made villains (Bishop, T.C. Bedlam), whitewash ( Sunspot, M), sidelined for lone time periods (all), kill randomly/make a villain look good (J. Bedlam, Synch).. And the same issue still are happening for mosty part today..

Think if we would’ve gotten correctly written Bishop & T.C. Bedlam both were main team at the same time or each one would be main blue/gold team with O & CeCe.

Think if Synch wasn’t randomly killed After Genx ended there was a real push of a X Corp book - With him, M, Sunspot & others.

Think if J. Bedlam wasn’t randomly killed after NM/Force got to graduate to a main team with his Bro or was atleast in next NM/X-Force/Factor relaunch). Instead all the Black male characters were killed, depowered, man villain or turned white. That’s what happen to most of the good will with Black fans.. Then a few years afterwards they made Prodigy, Drawin & few others and did the same things.

These characters should be enjoying a higher profile by now. It was crazy how diverse X-Men were in the 1990's before breaking out the bleach. Despite being killed off, or depowered, I quite sure some of these will eventually show up in the MCU, and enjoy more success in film, than the actual comics.

The characters are not distinct and interesting enough. The majority of the writers are probably not black men so they are less likely to create black characters. Don't think its a race thing, it is a predominately white country and industry.

Yet, King Kirby was creating black kings, and gods before most of us were born.

Black Panther and Storm being pushed now, doesn't address the 20 to 30 other black characters that have been used as nothing more than stage dressing...recently bias doesn't erase the past or present.

So for me as a black consumer. I don't need anyone else to vaildate my views on the subject, call it bad faith or a blanket statement. All you wish, but you aren't going dismiss my legitimate outlook on the matter ( i have read books on the industry in regards to this subject) as there's more than enough racist material or "off color" stuff in comic books that have been printed and edited right into book shops. That anyone with two brain cells could do a quick google search to find it - jive talk included.

Regardless. Two to three year's ago, i was of the strict mindset that both DC and Marvel - with the few black characters with backing, that they do have. Need to quit using them as window dressing or straight up, stop using them. Cause, rather or not guys see it. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S black creations and their real life counter parts continue to be exploited by those that use their image and stylzing to push sells. Shoot...just think about how done deaf it is that X-men apes so much of black historical struggles but Storm is the only, black character that has a backing. While creations like Angel and lesser get bigger billing.

This is the key to my love/hate relationship with the X-Men.