Page 94 of 145 FirstFirst ... 4484909192939495969798104144 ... LastLast
Results 1,396 to 1,410 of 2172
  1. #1396
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    13,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    So we are only talking about black people with African backgrounds.....?

    Bishop and Shard were both born in a American "mutant relocation camps" and are the children of Australian mutants Burnum and Kadee.
    I was responding to a post that specifically mentioned Roberto and his white-washing in the comics.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  2. #1397
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    6,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    When it comes to the whitewashing of Bobby and Monet it's a difficult thing to quantify. In one regard, I can see that some artist want to show Bobby as mixed race by lightening his skin and loosening his curls. But it just come off has striping away his blackness. In reality it's hard to compare the handling of differing skin tones because in the 70's and 80's every black person had the same brown skin. No one was dark skinned or light skinned, they all were the same medium brown shade. Remember, they used to color Native Americans red and Middle Easterners, and South Asians some weird gray color that had to be ultra offensive. So if someone today wants to show varying shades of "black" when they render a black character "lighter", should that be seen as "whitewashing"?

    If I look at an example of half black and half white actors, most would be considered "light skinned" in the Black community. From Halle Berry, Thandie Newton, Paula Patton, Jesse Williams, Jordan Peele, the Smollett siblings, Lenny Kravitz, Shemar Moore, etc. There are some who are as "light" as Vin Diesel, Mariah Carey, and Rashida Jones.
    So if an colorist render Bobby lighter than Storm or Black Panther, would that be "whitewashing" even though in the 80's he was colored the same as them? So if not Bobby, than who? If one would want to display the variety of shades to black people, who would be "light", who would be "medium brown" and who would be "dark"? Would the "lighter skinned" character be seen as less black or whitewashed? What is too light if they are still darker than the white characters? I don't have an answer.
    But what I do not like is when the strip his features to make him less black.
    Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s all up to the comics Colorist to do that job, right?

    Not the artist penciler or inker

  3. #1398
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    5,291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s all up to the comics Colorist to do that job, right?

    Not the artist penciler or inker
    The artists / penciler are just as responsible when they change the character's features along with their skin.

    Using Monet for an example. Originally she was light brown at best and caramel at darkest during her intro in Phalanx Covenant. She also had kinkier hair & more plump features.
    Phalanx Covenant (5).jpg
    Generation Next-11.jpg
    There's room for variable to a point because she flip-flopped from the start. Again light brown or caramel. But neither of those is white or slightly tan like how she is nowadays.

    Not only has she been light & white washed, her features have also changed. I can let this one slide a bit as well because there were two artists on Phalanx Covenant. Her first depiction had plump features but the second artist gave her more "delicate" ones. Her hair stayed curly but her nose & lips varied by the two artist.


    But Monet is why I was amused when people were ranting about the changes made to Blink in the previous Exiles series. Ahmed wanted to show her Bahamian roots and she was depicted with curly hair & plump features and people hated it because they assumed she was white or Asian. When people bring up her being Bahamian, they argued there's white people in the Bahamas. Well we got the reverse with Monet who's blackness has been most muted or outright erased since 2000 and people defending it with "Well she's Algerian" or headcanons that she's Arab or Berber and shouldn't look "African American", neither of which has ever been said.


    In any case, since we'd mostly lost Monet, I was fine with gaining Blink despite blackness still being muted when the characters are rainbow colors.

  4. #1399
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    6,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    The artists / penciler are just as responsible when they change the character's features along with their skin.

    Using Monet for an example. Originally she was light brown at best and caramel at darkest during her intro in Phalanx Covenant. She also had kinkier hair & more plump features.
    Phalanx Covenant (5).jpg
    Generation Next-11.jpg
    There's room for variable to a point because she flip-flopped from the start. Again light brown or caramel. But neither of those is white or slightly tan like how she is nowadays.

    Not only has she been light & white washed, her features have also changed. I can let this one slide a bit as well because there were two artists on Phalanx Covenant. Her first depiction had plump features but the second artist gave her more "delicate" ones. Her hair stayed curly but her nose & lips varied by the two artist.


    But Monet is why I was amused when people were ranting about the changes made to Blink in the previous Exiles series. Ahmed wanted to show her Bahamian roots and she was depicted with curly hair & plump features and people hated it because they assumed she was white or Asian. When people bring up her being Bahamian, they argued there's white people in the Bahamas. Well we got the reverse with Monet who's blackness has been most muted or outright erased since 2000 and people defending it with "Well she's Algerian" or headcanons that she's Arab or Berber and shouldn't look "African American", neither of which has ever been said.


    In any case, since we'd mostly lost Monet, I was fine with gaining Blink despite blackness still being muted when the characters are rainbow colors.
    Keep in mind the original Monet was a gestalt of her sisters. We didn’t see the real Monet until later.

  5. #1400
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    5,291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Keep in mind the original Monet was a gestalt of her sisters. We didn’t see the real Monet until later.
    That's moot. The sisters were supposed to be an exact replica of Monet so their father's wouldn't know she was gone. Makes no sense for her appearance to vary based on whether it's her sisters or not, because they were supposed to be identical to keep up the identity of their sister. Only difference is Monet was thought to be Autistic because Claudette was and it would seep through. Real Monet isn't Autistic and that should be the only difference.

    But if we do go there, real Monet was brown with plump features. lol So initial point still stands.
    Real M.jpg
    Real Mb.jpg
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 08-07-2020 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #1401
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    13,917

    Default

    Personally...I'm not overly hung-up on how inconsistent they depict characters of colour in comic books, with regards to features and skin colour. I usually just "no-prize" it to: the artist's style, the colourist's palette and reference/source material, and the editors not fine-tooth-combing through/looking for errors pre-production. There can be any number of reasons why colours don't turn out right, post production.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  7. #1402
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    5,291

    Default

    Hard for me to give that benefit of the doubt when it's only brown / black characters that have this problem on a consistent basis.

    Examples. Mystique is blue & red (or burgundy) in her true form. And always has been. Not once has she shown up in her real from looking purple & pink or violate & orange. If she has, it's certainly not often.

    Domino is black & white and she doesn't show up looking dark grey & brown. Everybody knows she's literally supposed to be Dalmatian colored.

    Even when it's tons of light, Mystique doesn't turn white like the brown characters do whenever they're hit by sunlight or go into a bright room.

    So there seems to be something else going on here.

    Only other different colored character that varies a lot besides the black & brown ones is Blink. Sometimes she's purple & sometimes she's pink.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 08-07-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  8. #1403
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    When it comes to the whitewashing of Bobby and Monet it's a difficult thing to quantify. In one regard, I can see that some artist want to show Bobby as mixed race by lightening his skin and loosening his curls. But it just come off has striping away his blackness. In reality it's hard to compare the handling of differing skin tones because in the 70's and 80's every black person had the same brown skin. No one was dark skinned or light skinned, they all were the same medium brown shade. Remember, they used to color Native Americans red and Middle Easterners, and South Asians some weird gray color that had to be ultra offensive. So if someone today wants to show varying shades of "black" when they render a black character "lighter", should that be seen as "whitewashing"?

    If I look at an example of half black and half white actors, most would be considered "light skinned" in the Black community. From Halle Berry, Thandie Newton, Paula Patton, Jesse Williams, Jordan Peele, the Smollett siblings, Lenny Kravitz, Shemar Moore, etc. There are some who are as "light" as Vin Diesel, Mariah Carey, and Rashida Jones.
    So if an colorist render Bobby lighter than Storm or Black Panther, would that be "whitewashing" even though in the 80's he was colored the same as them? So if not Bobby, than who? If one would want to display the variety of shades to black people, who would be "light", who would be "medium brown" and who would be "dark"? Would the "lighter skinned" character be seen as less black or whitewashed? What is too light if they are still darker than the white characters? I don't have an answer.
    But what I do not like is when the strip his features to make him less black.
    The thing is, in Roberto's backstory is clear that he never passed as white, people looked at him and new he was black. So the readers should know that he is black by just looking at the page.

  9. #1404
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    13,917

    Default

    I'm not there, front and centre, at every stage of production from concept to publishing so...I will give the benefit of the doubt.
    Case in point...when Marauders first started Blee was colouring Storm too light-skinned but by the fourth issue she was being coloured darker...I think someone might have pointed it out to the team and they course corrected. Which suggests that it could have been an error on Blee's part (wrong source material?) and not a deliberate attempt to Erase Black from Comics.

    Some colourists have knowledge of how skin tones can look varied in different light. Some colourists don't have that understanding.
    Some colourists choose the wrong source material as reference, some choose earlier more definitive sources.
    Some colourists work with a much more varied colour palette/programme than others (I don't think they ALL use the exact same colouring platform through out)
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 08-07-2020 at 10:38 AM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  10. #1405
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    6,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Hard for me to give that benefit of the doubt when it's only brown / black characters that have this problem on a consistent basis.

    Examples. Mystique is blue & red (or burgundy) in her true form. And always has been. Not once has she shown up in her real from looking purple & pink or violate & orange. If she has, it's certainly not often.

    Domino is black & white and she doesn't show up looking dark grey & brown. Everybody knows she's literally supposed to be Dalmatian colored.

    Even when it's tons of light, Mystique doesn't turn white like the brown characters do whenever they're hit by sunlight or go into a bright room.

    So there seems to be something else going on here.

    Only other different colored character that varies a lot besides the black & brown ones is Blink. Sometimes she's purple & sometimes she's pink.
    They’ve shown different shades for Native American characters. Moonstar, for has example, has had many different shades for her skin

  11. #1406
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Da Souf
    Posts
    6,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    He's black but and he should be the center of MANY MANY stories and this is the most BITTER thing in comics. I'm literally NOT going see the New Mutants over the Henry Zaga, trashcasting. . . and moreover? I'm going to tell everyone "avoid this". I don't really do that but its kinda too much to bear.
    I know right! The X-Books are shh!t when it comes to their minority chars actually ever being involved/key to the storyline, let alone one of any real significance...The last time it was a black was....Major X...one of the only Summers kids not to make a move to the 616.
    And I'm right with you man, it was some bullSh!t casting decisions all around, but Sunspots was ridiculous
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    Sunspot is the only black character that I think is enviable enough to really want to be in real life. His gift is a curse in NO WAY, Hes Handsome, He's rich... he's carefree. He's a flying brick. .
    Maybe it will get revealed his powers repel any other similarly melanin 'd person? That would explain a lotlol

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    I really want him base black again... or... tell us he's bleahing like sammy sosa and Charlemagne the God and address self hatred, but since thats beyond the scope of the x-books...
    I hate his rainbows. . . but then some people really like it.

    lol Bruh, unfortunately thats waaaay beyond


    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    The best example of someone using a similar powerset to synch imho is Calvin Rankin aka Mimic from the Exiles first run...

    So the whole thing where he Armors up like colossus, flys at you like Cannonball/or Northstar, and then Teleports you into space like Lila Cheney doesn't really happen with him.

    It was a really awesome effect that should played up on synch its VISUALLY really appealing.
    Wait did this really happen in the series?
    I feel like that would be similar to the recent 'M turning into Penance to kick ass' development While as interesting as it it is, It still takes away from seeing a brown/black Xman, I can imagine future story-lines that involves them being stuck in their 'powered up' form etc.And sure it may be visually appealing in theory but how many red, blue, green,pink etc non-human looking 'bad as fighters' are on the X-Men or even the Marvel universe? Its rare to find one looking like a normal black/brown person.THats why the rainbows were soo cool....they were visually awesome (under Bachelo) yet with Synch not transforming you couldn't fogert a black dude was controlling all that.
    GrindrStone(D)

  12. #1407
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    5,291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I'm not there, front and centre, at every stage of production from concept to publishing so...I will give the benefit of the doubt.
    Case in point...when Marauders first started Blee was colouring Storm too light-skinned but by the fourth issue she was being coloured darker...I think someone might have pointed it out to the team and they course corrected. Which suggests that it could have been an error on Blee's part (wrong source material?) and not a deliberate attempt to Erase Black from Comics.

    Some colourists have knowledge of how skin tones can look varied in different light. Some colourists don't have that understanding.
    Some colourists choose the wrong source material as reference, some choose earlier more definitive sources.
    Some colourists work with a much more varied colour palette/programme than others (I don't think they ALL use the exact same colouring platform through out)
    Which is fine. Everyone has different levels of tolerance and optimism vs. pessimism. Speaking for myself only, my tolerance level for some things has always been low to the point that I don't & can't give benefit of the doubt with shady (or lack there of here lol) stuff that's repeated.

    A non comic book example, there's controversy among the WWE fandom with Mark Calaway (The Undertaker) & racism. Given all I've seen, I think he's racist. There's plenty arguing on the other side like all the non-white friends he has & and non-white people who speak highly of him. But Hulk Hogan had that too, and anyone up to date knows how that turned out. So for me the black friend excuse is just that. An excuse.

    The X-Office and their handling of POC leaves A LOT to be desired and I believe shows very clear bias on a fairly consistent basis and it's avoidable if they actually pay attention & care which they evidently don't. lol
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 08-07-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  13. #1408
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    6,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Which is fine. Everyone has different levels of tolerance and optimism vs. pessimism. Speaking for myself only, my tolerance level for some things has always been low to the point that I don't & can't give benefit of the doubt with shady (or lack there of here lol) stuff that's repeated.

    A non comic book example, there's controversy among the WWE fandom with Mark Calaway (The Undertaker) & racism. Given all I've seen, I definitely think he's racist. There's plenty arguing on the other side like all the non-white friends he has & and non-white people who speak highly of him. But Hulk Hogan had that too, and anyone updated knows how that turned out. ;lol So for me, his non-white friends isn't a get out of jail free card, as racism & racial bias has varying levels to it.

    The X-Office and their handling of POC leaves A LOT to be desired and shows bias on a fairly consistent basis and it's avoidable if they actually pay attention & care which they evidently don't. lol
    Oh crap I haven’t kept up with wrestling in 15 years. What happened with Undertaker?

  14. #1409
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    5,291

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Oh crap I haven’t kept up with wrestling in 15 years. What happened with Undertaker?
    I'll send you a DM so as not to get OT.

    Again it's controversial. Some think the evidence of his racism is people overreacting & whining.

  15. #1410
    Mighty Member superjosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1,229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I'm not there, front and centre, at every stage of production from concept to publishing so...I will give the benefit of the doubt.
    Case in point...when Marauders first started Blee was colouring Storm too light-skinned but by the fourth issue she was being coloured darker...I think someone might have pointed it out to the team and they course corrected. Which suggests that it could have been an error on Blee's part (wrong source material?) and not a deliberate attempt to Erase Black from Comics.

    Some colourists have knowledge of how skin tones can look varied in different light. Some colourists don't have that understanding.
    Some colourists choose the wrong source material as reference, some choose earlier more definitive sources.
    Some colourists work with a much more varied colour palette/programme than others (I don't think they ALL use the exact same colouring platform through out)
    I don't think many of us think that there is intention for these (IMO) microaggressions. But they shouldn't be given a pass for ignorance. If a colorist doesn't have the understanding... then go get it. If the colorist got the memo on the color of the costume, then they can get the memo on the color of a character's skin. It's that simple. Anyone who knows an artist knows they like to get things right... and so if they're not getting it right, it's obviously not as important to them and that is where the problem lies.

    It should be a collaborative effort between the writer/penciler/colorist/editor, and they all share some of the responsibility. As Silver Fang pointed out, Mystique and Domino's coloring is often pretty consistent. Like even the shade of blue that's used for Mystique. It's probably catalogued. I'm not saying it's a great idea to catalogue skin tones for characters of color, but obviously some effort went into keeping Mystique consistent, so it would be nice to get that effort put into characters of color as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •