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  1. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    At the same time, looking at the title of this thread, DC at least has some grown black men worth reading in rotation or semi rotation; John Stewart, Black Lightning, Batwing, Cyborg, Mr.Terrific, Martian Manhunters chosen human form, and I know I'm missing more. All the X-Men really have is Bishop and again, they retconned him to be Aboriginal, plain ol Aussie at best. Most others are limbo-bait, children and/or dead.
    Bishop was not retconned to be Aboriginal per say. He is not Aussie, and does not speak with an Aussie accent. He has an aboriginal grandparent, yes. And in real life Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandparent. Doesn't mean she isn't Black.

    Especially in North and South America, most Black people are mixed to varying degrees. Bishop CLEARLY counts as and is intended to be Black.

  2. #977

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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    At this point I think they are making up stuff because it's already so confusing. It's like the ultimate scapegoat. We don't know, because they never defined it, thus they can essentially do whatever they want and get away with it. LoL

    We can try to track it; First appearance of M, wasn't M. It was a her two younger twin sistera merged together impersonating her, one of which was autistic. They took the form because they thought their parents would flip out if their favorite child was gone.

    Though M wasn't gone, she was transformed into Penance by their equally confusing older brother because he was offended by her teasing him. She was following him around while he used another nebulous power to skip dimensions. How it all got reversed is foggy for me but I know the girls became Penance and M changed back to her normal self.

    M is supposed to have limited psionics including tp and tk as well as super intelligence, speed, strength, durability, stamina and flight. Basically super super human. The girls seem to be meta morphs. Not sure what else they are capable of but they're like the Super Twins from DC I think..I dunno.

    Emplate... He's psychic vampire that preys on other mutants, can infect people with his power, and bend reality because I don't understand why he was able to do what he did to his sister without magic. And again, can pass into other dimensions. Oh, M and Emplate can also merge together like their sisters to become a single being. I don't know what you call that.

    .... there's magic involved with Emplate, right?
    i guess so. the problem is that Penance wasn't intended to be Monet. and they should have stuck with that. some people like that M was originally intended to be twin children merged together to become a superhero. personally, i hate that idea. i think M should be M with her "perfect" powerset. i have nothing against her having little sisters. but it was (imo) an incredibly stupid move to reveal 'M' to be two little girls and 'Penance' to be the real Monet St. Croix. Penance was a tragic story w/o the connection.

  3. #978
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Bishop was not retconned to be Aboriginal per say. He is not Aussie, and does not speak with an Aussie accent. He has an aboriginal grandparent, yes. And in real life Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandparent. Doesn't mean she isn't Black.

    Especially in North and South America, most Black people are mixed to varying degrees. Bishop CLEARLY counts as and is intended to be Black.
    I don't know how they spoke (technically no one does) but he and his family relocated from Australia at an early age. They lived there before coming to America and his parents died prior to living with his grandmother in NY (I think), iirc. At some point he and Shard lived with witness and later joined XSE. Could be remembering wrong. It is a ham-fisted retcon. Not saying he isn't black, I'm saying some of that melanin isn't all where we think thanks to recton. What we think and original intentions don't really matter after a retcon like that.

    No need to break it down bucko. I'm from a Jamaican family. My grandfather was blonde hair blue eyes Scottish. I understand what black is and isn't.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 12-30-2019 at 06:38 AM.
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  4. #979
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Bishop was not retconned to be Aboriginal per say. He is not Aussie, and does not speak with an Aussie accent. He has an aboriginal grandparent, yes. And in real life Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandparent. Doesn't mean she isn't Black.

    Especially in North and South America, most Black people are mixed to varying degrees. Bishop CLEARLY counts as and is intended to be Black.
    I dont think speaking with a regional dialect is any indication of a persons race or ethnicity
    Buuuuuu as to Bishop.....

    looks preeeeety Aboriginally to me lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    but it was (imo) an incredibly stupid move to reveal 'M' to be two little girls and 'Penance' to be the real Monet St. Croix. Penance was a tragic story w/o the connection.
    oh dude I was totally tripped out at the reveal, and think its a pretty interesting conflict that Lobdell was attempting to set up "was the power the twins added to Gen X as M outweigh the danger and morality of the twins going into battle?"
    Not his fault M was a too awesome a character to be part time.
    We really didnt get Penance's backstory it was revealed she was the real Monet tho
    Last edited by BroHomo; 12-30-2019 at 06:46 AM.
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  5. #980
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    "was the power the twins added to Gen X as M outweigh the danger and morality of the twins going into battle?"
    As cool as Monet is, and as loud her fans can be, I think I prefer the fused twins for the difficult question it poses. In the interest of creativity they could’ve skirted the danger issue by having the twins fuse with other Gen Xers making more and more complicated mutant combatants. Imagine Claudette + Nicole + Chamber = Psychic Fire M. Claudette + Nicole + Husk + Skin = Basically Platinum from the Metal Men.

    Quote Originally Posted by guy_gardner View Post
    Shola Inkose (though the man deserves a code name by now)
    In my AU headfanon joins the New Mutants as “Dynamo”. I recall reading a gender swapped O5 story where Dynamo is the name the writers gave to “John Grey”. In my AU he breaks bad and joins Magneto.

    I resolve the issue of Marius St. Croix knowing magic by imagining that St. Croix family trades in mystical artifacts and occult tomes. Marius stole a few pages, experimented until he contacted a Limbo demon, and ended up getting corrupted. It’s simple and makes sense given what we can expect from the Marvel Universe, but it’s not likely the St. Croixs will ever get enough attention to clean their house. Far easier to have badass Monet with a Penance toggle, and monstrous Emplate with a litany of weird powers.

  6. #981
    Amazing Member OblivionX33's Avatar
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    Because the best writers don't write them.

  7. #982
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Bishop was not retconned to be Aboriginal per say. He is not Aussie, and does not speak with an Aussie accent. He has an aboriginal grandparent, yes. And in real life Naomi Campbell has a Chinese grandparent. Doesn't mean she isn't Black.

    Especially in North and South America, most Black people are mixed to varying degrees. Bishop CLEARLY counts as and is intended to be Black.
    Bishop(whose both parents are Indigenous Australian) isn't "Black" because Black for all intents of purposes means of African descent whether it be Brazilian, Puerto Rican, West Indian, American or from the Motherland . Aboriginal Australians are dark pigmented skin people who don't have African descent( well that if you believe the science which has small window allows you to question it a little).

    Scholars have disagreed whether the closest kin of Aboriginal Australians outside Australia were certain South Asian groups or African groups. The latter would imply a migration pattern in which their ancestors passed through South Asia to Australia without intermingling genetically with other populations along the way
    So basically if it is South Asia descent then it can't be Africa, and Aboriginal Australians one of the oldest living populations in the world and possibly the oldest outside of Africa. So with that understanding they are very much their unique own thing . Anyways this one few racial stuff I just let go because it is not really worth argument. Aboriginal Australians experience has mirrored other people with dark pigmented skin minus the slavery even if they aren't "Black" they have had mostly same experiences combined with treatment similar to what happened to Indigenous Americans as a bonus. And you are not going tell Aboriginal Australian they are black like say someone from Brazil, America or Puerto Rico. You can comfortable tell dark skin people of those back ground all our ancestors came on ship over from Africa. But You can't tell Aboriginal Australian that when their families have been where they are for centuries unbothered and mixed until you know who decided to show up.

    Bishop is of Indigenous Australian descent, And is biggest example of why you need more creators of different backgrounds. Someone with more knowledge of the culture would have never added that background to Bishop. And if you are adding that background to Bishop they should make the effort to in how he looks reflect his heritage. Gateway, Manifold and Bishop get dumped in this topic but in all honesty there is good argument for why they shouldn't be in here.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-30-2019 at 11:14 PM.

  8. #983

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    Australian Aboriginals consider themselves Black, and technically they are part of the African Diaspora, just like, from 70,000 years ago. That said, retconning Bishop to be Aboriginal was a questionable move by Claremont, though. We really didn't need Bishop connected to Gateway, and for all of the 90's there was not a single hint that he was Aboriginal, so it's kinda ridiculous.
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  9. #984
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Australian Aboriginals consider themselves Black, and technically they are part of the African Diaspora, just like, from 70,000 years ago. That said, retconning Bishop to be Aboriginal was a questionable move by Claremont, though. We really didn't need Bishop connected to Gateway, and for all of the 90's there was not a single hint that he was Aboriginal, so it's kinda ridiculous.
    Dude I know right!!! I mean he had a fvckin JheriCurl! Not even the Crocodile Dundee I & II Aboriginal actor David Gulpilile wore a curl. He wasn't gonna mess up his good hair. #smsh
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  10. #985
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Bishop(whose both parents are Indigenous Australian) isn't "Black" because Black for all intents of purposes means of African descent whether it be Brazilian, Puerto Rican, West Indian, American or from the Motherland . Aboriginal Australians are dark pigmented skin people who don't have African descent( well that if you believe the science which has small window allows you to question it a little).



    So basically if it is South Asia descent then it can't be Africa, and Aboriginal Australians one of the oldest living populations in the world and possibly the oldest outside of Africa. So with that understanding they are very much their unique own thing . Anyways this one few racial stuff I just let go because it is not really worth argument. Aboriginal Australians experience has mirrored other people with dark pigmented skin minus the slavery even if they aren't "Black" they have had mostly same experiences combined with treatment similar to what happened to Indigenous Americans as a bonus. And you are not going tell Aboriginal Australian they are black like say someone from Brazil, America or Puerto Rico. You can comfortable tell dark skin people of those back ground all our ancestors came on ship over from Africa. But You can't tell Aboriginal Australian that when their families have been where they are for centuries unbothered and mixed until you know who decided to show up.

    Bishop is of Indigenous Australian descent, And is biggest example of why you need more creators of different backgrounds. Someone with more knowledge of the culture would have never added that background to Bishop. And if you are adding that background to Bishop they should make the effort to in how he looks reflect his heritage. Gateway, Manifold and Bishop get dumped in this topic but in all honesty there is good argument for why they shouldn't be in here.
    You do realize that just as you read from one source of research that there are many that counter on the basis of shared biological markers that are shared with any descendants from Africa are all present in Aboriginal people. Prior to the introduction of Europeans to the continent of course. Either way he's directly, or by way black.

  11. #986
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    You do realize that just as you read from one source of research that there are many that counter on the basis of shared biological markers that are shared with any descendants from Africa are all present in Aboriginal people. Prior to the introduction of Europeans to the continent of course. Either way he's directly, or by way black.
    You can be wrong about science and right about Bishop. X-Books need an unambiguously black male hero. Bishop’s blackness and her heroism have been significantly muddled. It’s messy and irresponsible.

  12. #987

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Australian Aboriginals consider themselves Black, and technically they are part of the African Diaspora, just like, from 70,000 years ago. That said, retconning Bishop to be Aboriginal was a questionable move by Claremont, though. We really didn't need Bishop connected to Gateway, and for all of the 90's there was not a single hint that he was Aboriginal, so it's kinda ridiculous.
    in claremont's defense (no idea why i'm doing this), i think it was entirely a consequence of him giving Bishop a new mutant ability (chronal awareness or somesuch).

  13. #988

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    As cool as Monet is, and as loud her fans can be, I think I prefer the fused twins for the difficult question it poses. In the interest of creativity they could’ve skirted the danger issue by having the twins fuse with other Gen Xers making more and more complicated mutant combatants. Imagine Claudette + Nicole + Chamber = Psychic Fire M. Claudette + Nicole + Husk + Skin = Basically Platinum from the Metal Men.
    ultimately, sounds like a far less usable character imo. might look interesting written down. but the more complex a character's powers, the less page time they see, from my experience. Monet at just an arrogant super strong flying brick fits a mold. she serves a readily identifiable purpose in a roster. she can even be used as a telepath. she can make out with Jamie Madrox without it being creepy. now compare it to two little twin girls who can merge with other characters. i don't think that it translates well...

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I resolve the issue of Marius St. Croix knowing magic by imagining that St. Croix family trades in mystical artifacts and occult tomes. Marius stole a few pages, experimented until he contacted a Limbo demon, and ended up getting corrupted. It’s simple and makes sense given what we can expect from the Marvel Universe, but it’s not likely the St. Croixs will ever get enough attention to clean their house. Far easier to have badass Monet with a Penance toggle, and monstrous Emplate with a litany of weird powers.
    sure. the st.croix family is unexplored. it's always possible to seed that magic stuff. but they didn't do it. so the writers made a mess of the Emplate/M stuff. if it were me, i would have had Marius seek out the occult out of envy of his sister's mutancy. and he would have, of course, paid the price for it; being left with a vampiric thirst and exile in a monstrous dimension. that makes sense to me. what makes less sense is that he's a mutant magic hybrid of some sort while his siblings aren't. their father seemed quite normal.

  14. #989
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    i don't think that it translates well...
    Different tastes. The loss of Monet as her own character would thus require a new context where Monet isn't the persona or role that she's occupied for years. It's absent, and the open space caused by her absence opens up room for other characters to grow. We might not have ever lost Synch and Skin if we'd lost "Monet" early on. We might have even gained a Marius. Who's to say?

    I should make this a unpopular/controversial thread post. I know M has her fans.

  15. #990
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Did we ever see Lucas' and Shard's parents?
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