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  1. #1411
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    It's grand to sit here and state..."this should happen" and "they must do that" but...we still don't know what transpires between the writer-artists-colourist-inker during the production process on any given book.
    Yes they do collaborate with each other...that much is obvious...but how often and in what depth is speculative, and as such some details will be overlooked.

    Maybe...
    It might help to have a Fenty Colour chart to the effect of:

    Roberto Da Costa: Tan 430
    Storm: Medium 360
    Monet: Light 290
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  2. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by superjosh View Post
    I don't think many of us think that there is intention for these (IMO) microaggressions. But they shouldn't be given a pass for ignorance. If a colorist doesn't have the understanding... then go get it. If the colorist got the memo on the color of the costume, then they can get the memo on the color of a character's skin. It's that simple. Anyone who knows an artist knows they like to get things right... and so if they're not getting it right, it's obviously not as important to them and that is where the problem lies.

    It should be a collaborative effort between the writer/penciler/colorist/editor, and they all share some of the responsibility. As Silver Fang pointed out, Mystique and Domino's coloring is often pretty consistent. Like even the shade of blue that's used for Mystique. It's probably catalogued. I'm not saying it's a great idea to catalogue skin tones for characters of color, but obviously some effort went into keeping Mystique consistent, so it would be nice to get that effort put into characters of color as well.

    Also if this is such an issue-why does no one do what they do in animation?

    I have an original art/sketch piece from the 80s Care Bear Show of Brightheart (with raccoon misspelled). It has every color that is to be used on him and points out where it should go.

    Shouldn't Marvel have that? So we don't have folks looking 18 different ways in books.

    It might help to have a Fenty Colour chart to the effect of:

    Roberto Da Costa: Tan 430
    Storm: Medium 360
    Monet: Light 290
    This would end all questions.

  3. #1413
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    While I would prefer to have a consistent character design, I usually don't think that it's a huge deal when a character has slightly lighter or slightly darker skin tone, at least, no worse than the people that can't decide whether Storm has pupils or not or how tall Wolverine is.

    However there are some exceptions.

    I was recently reading X-Men Forever and while that series has a ton of problems, they way they colored Storm in the final issue is just inexcusable.


    She's not supposed to be white but she's colored this way the whole issue. The other Wakandans (Wakandians?) are colored the same way.

    While some previous issues showed her with a lighter shade, it was still clear she was supposed to be of a darker skin color. This is just going to far.

  4. #1414
    Fantastic Member superjosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It's grand to sit here and state..."this should happen" and "they must do that" but...we still don't know what transpires between the writer-artists-colourist-inker during the production process on any given book.
    Yes they do collaborate with each other...that much is obvious...but how often and in what depth is speculative, and as such some details will be overlooked.

    Maybe...
    It might help to have a Fenty Colour chart to the effect of:

    Roberto Da Costa: Tan 430
    Storm: Medium 360
    Monet: Light 290
    I don't think it's "grand" to have the minimum expectation. Yeah it's true we don't know what happens, but what does happen/is happening is insufficient, and the solution doesn't seem that far out of reach... implying that it's attainable but not a high priority.

    Sometimes I do see Storm drawn basically like a dark white lady and it does bother me. I didn't really follow New Mutants originally so I only kind of recalled Sunspot being depicted as Afro-Brazilian in the past... like I never got that from his more modern looks. If it's not a big deal to some, that's fine. To me, it seems like one of those things that would take only a teeny little bit of effort and have a lasting positive impact.

  5. #1415
    Incredible Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It's grand to sit here and state..."this should happen" and "they must do that" but...we still don't know what transpires between the writer-artists-colourist-inker during the production process on any given book.
    Yes they do collaborate with each other...that much is obvious...but how often and in what depth is speculative, and as such some details will be overlooked.

    Maybe...
    It might help to have a Fenty Colour chart to the effect of:

    Roberto Da Costa: Tan 430
    Storm: Medium 360
    Monet: Light 290

  6. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    While I would prefer to have a consistent character design, I usually don't think that it's a huge deal when a character has slightly lighter or slightly darker skin tone, at least, no worse than the people that can't decide whether Storm has pupils or not or how tall Wolverine is.

    However there are some exceptions.

    I was recently reading X-Men Forever and while that series has a ton of problems, they way they colored Storm in the final issue is just inexcusable.


    She's not supposed to be white but she's colored this way the whole issue. The other Wakandans (Wakandians?) are colored the same way.

    While some previous issues showed her with a lighter shade, it was still clear she was supposed to be of a darker skin color. This is just going to far.
    wow this puts that marvel thread about most racist thing being tony stark parent change to shame. wow.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  7. #1417
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superjosh View Post
    I don't think many of us think that there is intention for these (IMO) microaggressions. But they shouldn't be given a pass for ignorance. If a colorist doesn't have the understanding... then go get it. If the colorist got the memo on the color of the costume, then they can get the memo on the color of a character's skin. It's that simple. Anyone who knows an artist knows they like to get things right... and so if they're not getting it right, it's obviously not as important to them and that is where the problem lies.

    It should be a collaborative effort between the writer/penciler/colorist/editor, and they all share some of the responsibility. As Silver Fang pointed out, Mystique and Domino's coloring is often pretty consistent. Like even the shade of blue that's used for Mystique. It's probably catalogued. I'm not saying it's a great idea to catalogue skin tones for characters of color, but obviously some effort went into keeping Mystique consistent, so it would be nice to get that effort put into characters of color as well.
    If you really really want consistency? yeah it'd be great.

    Even more so for mid-range characters where the specific shade of skin is actually an important hint as to their background. Sabra for example, is Jewish, but sometimes gets colored to look like a Caucasian.

    Dragoness's ethnic background is a complete mystery... in part because of how erratic her character art is. Is she supposed to look Indonesian or European? She's been drawn both ways in different books by different artists.

  8. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Dragoness's ethnic background is a complete mystery... in part because of how erratic her character art is. Is she supposed to look Indonesian or European? She's been drawn both ways in different books by different artists.
    If the dragon-lady isn't Asian that could be a good thing.

    (Not that she's supposed to be an actual dragon-lady, from what I recall, she was a normal-human-looking mutant who shot electricity from her hands, wearing a scaly winged battlesuit provided by Stryfe, but now she's being drawn with actual biological wings, so I have no idea what's up with that. Then again, Tempo is being drawn with her helmet on all the time, so perhaps she's also been changed to have her costume/armor become part of her flesh/mutation?)

  9. #1419
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    If the dragon-lady isn't Asian that could be a good thing.

    (Not that she's supposed to be an actual dragon-lady, from what I recall, she was a normal-human-looking mutant who shot electricity from her hands, wearing a scaly winged battlesuit provided by Stryfe, but now she's being drawn with actual biological wings, so I have no idea what's up with that. Then again, Tempo is being drawn with her helmet on all the time, so perhaps she's also been changed to have her costume/armor become part of her flesh/mutation?)
    I've always found that odd. Then in HoM we see her with actual biological wings. Which raises the question... why did she have a combat suit with mechanical wings at all? Were they prosthetic limb replacements?

  10. #1420
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    If the dragon-lady isn't Asian that could be a good thing.

    (Not that she's supposed to be an actual dragon-lady, from what I recall, she was a normal-human-looking mutant who shot electricity from her hands, wearing a scaly winged battlesuit provided by Stryfe, but now she's being drawn with actual biological wings, so I have no idea what's up with that.
    Well Dragoness is from Madipoor...a fictional Asian country. Was it in the regular 616 or?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Then again, Tempo is being drawn with her helmet on all the time, so perhaps she's also been changed to have her costume/armor become part of her flesh/mutation?)
    I don't think that's what's happening with Temple I think this artist dryer in a costume as a way to visually set her apart
    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I've always found that odd. Then in HoM we see her with actual biological wings. Which raises the question... why did she have a combat suit with mechanical wings at all? Were they prosthetic limb replacements?
    Considering that the timelinof the emergence of Mutants had to be moved up maybe the bomb that altered her genes while i utero was different than the Atomic bombs dropped on 616 Japan
    GrindrStone(D)

  11. #1421
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    wow this puts that marvel thread about most racist thing being tony stark parent change to shame. wow.
    Maybe if Marvel paid their editors more, there would be less colouring errors.
    "Cable was right!"

  12. #1422
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    wow this puts that marvel thread about most racist thing being tony stark parent change to shame. wow.
    I thought that was a NEW character. She looks like someone from Wildstorm comics.

    Maybe if Marvel paid their editors more, there would be less colouring errors.
    The salary is $38K-$41K (based on a few job sites).

    However I have found about Marvel editor does NOT require comic book knowledge. Just an interest. They are most interested in getting someone to look over the writing.

    So if you have an editor who NEVER read X-Men editing the book-that is what you get.

    Along with most editors have a long list of job duties beyond just editing. Like recruiting and pitching in some cases.

  13. #1423
    Fantastic Member superjosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The salary is $38K-$41K (based on a few job sites).
    That can't be right...

  14. #1424
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    What white Fragility & white Supremacy looks like behind the scenes.


    From https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-new-muta...s-a-1844806878
    "io9: We’ve got to talk about the criticisms that have been leveled against the film for casting Henry Zaga to play Roberto, a character who’s Afro-Brazilian in the comics, originally read as Black, and whose origins do touch upon anti-Black racism in Brazil. I suppose my first question’s: do you get where that criticism came from?

    Boone: You won’t have any argument from me. It’s like my thing was my goal was to cast a real Brazilian and I saw 300 of myself black, brown, lighter-skinned. I saw every shade of the sun. It was the same case with Blu Hunt. It’s like we looked at 300 Native American people and people very close ties to the Native American community. My goal was to find the best actor who, because they’ve done so little work, was at least the closest to kind of what I saw in my head for the character. There was nobody who hold a candle to Henry. It’s like maybe if Henry didn’t exist, I would have found somebody who was darker skinned who exemplified what I needed. But it was never about the color of their skin for me.

    io9: Did that just not fit into your vision for Roberto’s story in the film?

    Boone: I didn’t care so much about the racism I’ve heard about in Brazil, about light-skinned versus dark-skinned. To me, it was I wanted to represent Brazil in a positive way and I wanted to find somebody who seems like he could look like a guy who’s had the silver spoon in his mouth, who has like a really rich dad and [Henry] just exemplified all these things.

    Henry’s such a dedicated performer and you can see it in her performance on The Stand where he’s playing someone who can neither speak nor hear, and he put so much time into learning sign language and spending time learning from deaf people was just great. He’s a beyond reproach human being, and I sort of defy anybody who wants to say that Henry’s not a good Roberto simply because he’s lighter-skinned."
    Last edited by 4sake Baned; 08-26-2020 at 04:31 PM.

  15. #1425
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Basically he said he was casting the character and not the skin tone.. meh.

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