Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[CRaymond]

Marketing was absolutely correct.

Creative screwed the pooch.

I always thought Bishop needed a more comedic or over-the-top partner (although not Deadpool!) to play straight man to. Or the teen girl mutant sidekick that is often used to humanize Wolverine.

Gambit is, and was, the obvious choice. I just didn't think future mutant-sheriff was enough of a foil to Gambit's extensive worldbuild. They shared plots, books, and several attempts at solo series.

[Killerbee911]

I went looking for a Cable Appreciation thread to transfer the jist of this conversation, but 2018's been locked at 54 pages, and I'm not enough of a fan to build the new 2019 one.

That's said, let's dissect Bishop's character in the same manner. What is his essential concept? Mutant Judge Dredd from the future? Tell me all about what works, what doesn't, what failed, what succeeded, what rises to the top, and what holds him back?

Essential concept Bishop is he from bad future where mutants are in camps where sentinels have taken over the world. Basically Bishop is John Connor in terminator

- What works? As long as there is possibility of his future he has something do

- What doesn't work? Completely getting rid of possibility of his future

- What failed? What ever the F**k they trying to do with that Hope story,There was never plan for Bishop beyond that story no plan for redemption,no full villain turn and no death for him

- What succeed? Bishop as cop/solider that is his lane. If they find good angles they can tell nice modern stories

- What holds him back? He has the personalty type of leader but is never given leadership. No nonsense,mission oriented and tactical. It is little ironic that you see some fans matching Jean Grey with him because he is kinda old Cyclops. The other thing that holds him back is that his "blackness" is defined enough meaning that Bishop has almost every generic black hair style that could be given to character. Which mean that writers and artist seem has that "the Black X-man" okay let me give him locks or braids. They have not given his character enough thought to consider that guy who see himself professional works very much like a cop/solider wouldn't probably use those hairstyles. Every time Bishop has pop back he is different because they don't have clue what to do with him.

What Rises to the top? X-treme X-men . In that book Bishop got to use all elements of his character

[FIGHT]

Should of made prodigy take advantage of his fighting skill and knowledge to become a high tech fighting guy. A brawler with a lot gadgets and even physical and enhancements which he would of gained from doing experiments oh himself.

I'm thinking regeneration of cells to spread up healing, thick bones that could withstand 1000s of pounds of pressure, night/heat vision, super speed. Some real anime stuff.

[Beetle]

Should of made prodigy take advantage of his fighting skill and knowledge to become a high tech fighting guy. A brawler with a lot gadgets and even physical and enhancements which he would of gained from doing experiments oh himself.

I'm thinking regeneration of cells to spread up healing, thick bones that could withstand 1000s of pounds of pressure, night/heat vision, super speed. Some real anime stuff.

Just giving him various weapons on hand that he can switch to at a moment's notice like Taskmaster would be a great start.

Dani's archery
Bishop and Cable's penchant for giant guns
Kitty, Nightcrawler and Psylocke's skills with swords
Gambit's bo staff

Combine that with stuff like Cyclops' spatial geometry so that he can bounce projectiles off of surfaces, and he'd be terrifyingly efficient. A one man X-team.

[CRaymond]

Thanks KB. This is exactly the kind of autopsy I was hoping for.

Essential concept Bishop is he from bad future where mutants are in camps where sentinels have taken over the world. Basically Bishop is John Connor in terminator

- What works? As long as there is possibility of his future he has something do

- What doesn't work? Completely getting rid of possibility of his future

Yeah, I can get behind time-traveler to change the future. The John Connor analogy is appropriate. While Rachel Summers is a refugee, Lucas Bishop is a volunteer.

- What failed? What ever the F**k they trying to do with that Hope story,There was never plan for Bishop beyond that story no plan for redemption,no full villain turn and no death for him

I was going to suggest anytime he's solo. He's been given a Mad Max scenario and a NYPD Blue scenario and I'm not convinced either served him well. His anxiety about the future should never leave. Even avoiding small significant events isn't enough to change the future, and he should know and preach that. He has to guard against the tide that pushes the mutants into a future that hates and fears them.

- What succeed? Bishop as cop/solider that is his lane. If they find good angles they can tell nice modern stories

While I think soldier clearly makes sense given his John Connor concept, I'm not sure the constant policeman tropes are conceptually sound... especially when he sides WITH state authority in times of social upheaval. He's supposed to fear events that might result in mutant dystopia.

- What holds him back? He has the personalty type of leader but is never given leadership. No nonsense,mission oriented and tactical. It is little ironic that you see some fans matching Jean Grey with him because he is kinda old Cyclops. The other thing that holds him back is that his "blackness" is defined enough meaning that Bishop has almost every generic black hair style that could be given to character. Which mean that writers and artist seem has that "the Black X-man" okay let me give him locks or braids. They have not given his character enough thought to consider that guy who see himself professional works very much like a cop/solider wouldn't probably use those hairstyles. Every time Bishop has pop back he is different because they don't have clue what to do with him.

He really is another Cyclops, but with less hangups.

And I hate that the tattoo means they can do whatever they want with his hair and he's still recognizable. He doesn't even have costume cues aside from an off-center vertical stripe.

What Rises to the top? X-treme X-men . In that book Bishop got to use all elements of his character

Yeah he needs to be in positions where he's a tactician, paired with a more inspirational leader like Storm, Jean, Nightcrawler.

[Grey]

The wait time is a good point. I'm not sure if people would have the patience for the build-up that takes to actually establish a character in such a medium.

This is why I feel writers should tell the stories they want to tell regardless of initial and short term feedback.

In other words, I respect a writer more for telling a story they want to tell, even if I don’t like or read that story... than if they write generic/rehash/formula stories.

[Grey]

I think it basically comes down to writers having their fan-boy faves and just not being interested in those "secondary" characters (they are not A-listers, and more decidedly B/C-listers) to begin with, coupled with...editorial "allowing" only certain characters to be used, and How and When they could be used. Plus...the (short) length of time current writers are given to tell their stories, before they move/are moved on to other books/projects.

Take Gentle on XMR by Taylor as a most recent example of my last point.
That was an 11-issue run. And While Gentle was given some character development, in order for him to be given the chance at Bishop-level prominence Taylor would have to be on that book for a good two years plus in order to devote some major story development time to the character. As it stands right now, Gentle is back in limbo.

Today's writers just aren't given the same opportunity and leeway as Claremont had back in the day, or even Bendis for a more recent example. They are writing plot-driven stories instead of character-driven stories. Then consider...as with Bendis, they would much rather devote time and effort into introducing and promoting their creator-owned characters rather than those belonging to/chosen by Marvel and editorial.

While not a blanket answer, I feel this is very, very true.
Books just don’t last long enough and if they do, there is not nearly enough dialogue for good character development.

[MichelleDiMera]

Same reason you mostly an all white team besides Storm..its all about writers catering to the white privilege society at hand.

[wano]

Same reason you mostly an all white team besides Storm..its all about writers catering to the white privilege society at hand.

I think it's the issue with having a 70% white country when they're also the third biggest earners on average (after Asians and jews)

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

I think it's the issue with having a 70% white country when they're also the third biggest earners on average (after Asians and jews)

Ashkenazi Jewish people are white. What kind of polling separates them from other European ethnicities on the basis of their religion alone?

[BroHomo]

uhhh how do i go to this superior timeline

lol

If Cable had been introduced as a black mutant cyborg, we'd all be a lot more healthy.

Do you not know who Bishop is?

Byrne said on his message board that Bishop was marketing's idea. They wanted a new character and wanted him to be black. I guess Lee and Portacio took it from there.

GodJam so the first 'black' official X-Men was basically forced on the team #smdh almost 30 years later there's been what 2 others? 3?

[mugiwara]

Just giving him various weapons on hand that he can switch to at a moment's notice like Taskmaster would be a great start.

Dani's archery
Bishop and Cable's penchant for giant guns
Kitty, Nightcrawler and Psylocke's skills with swords
Gambit's bo staff

Combine that with stuff like Cyclops' spatial geometry so that he can bounce projectiles off of surfaces, and he'd be terrifyingly efficient. A one man X-team.

I'd like him to carry a shape shifting weapon

uddup.jpg

[Sutekh]

I'd like him to carry a shape shifting weapon

It would make sense that he would have;

A) some sort of futuristic weapon / multi-tool (other than the ubiquitous 'bigass gun'), perhaps designed by some mutant super-genius like Forge. A rod like the one the short-time Avenger Magdalene used, that could function both as a melee weapon, parrying device and ranged blaster (and could be used as a welder, power-supply or even a light source), would be ideal.

B) training and hand-to-hand skills for when his power isn't charged up and available (since it is dependent on someone blasting him to charge it up), so that he's capable and effective even without his mutant power.

I'd want to avoid giving him more (or better) powers though. IMO, that's just a lazy out, and if 'more/better powers!' had any correlation to how much traction a character had, Gabriel Summers and Mikhail Rasputin would be the most successful and popular members of their respective families.

The power he has is great, narratively, since it's strong, but has some restrictions built in, making it like Cyclops. (Yet another thing they share!)

[jpmst17]

I'd like to see bishop teamed with Fantomex. I think it has the opportunity for a good dynamic. Fantomex is goofy enough, but not overly goofy like deapool. bishop could be the straight man. i'd read that

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I'd think though that Bishop couldn't trust Fantomex any further than he could throw him about anything...so not sure that Bishop would really go for that...