Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[TheLimboBabies]

It is also a business so Marvel would look at their readership and what is popular, money is always the biggest factor in a business.

[TheLimboBabies]

oops double post

[BroHomo]

It is also a business so Marvel would look at their readership and what is popular, money is always the biggest factor in a business.

Hmmm that does look like the obvious reasoning, and logically you'd think they'd push what sells.but why at the cost of black male mutants who are just as potentially profitable as their white counterparts

[OblivionX33]

Hmmm that does look like the obvious reasoning, and logically you'd think they'd push what sells. But why at the cost of black male mutants who are just as potentially profitable as their white counterparts

Exactly, unless the notion is half their fan base is racist and don't like non-white characters (almost impossible and a lot to assume). That would certainly be a huge leap. Plus you'd think it would make more sense for them to try and maximize sells by any means. So where does that leave us? incompetence? maybe, bankrupt creativity? or bias editors...

There is no logically reason. So the conclusion is obvious and has been stated many a times. It would be dumb for any company to not capitalize on all possible gains in such a niche creative market and by no means. Have either DC or Marvel uiltized even 1/5 of their resources to support the type of push that would have been needed in the past - especially - to establish a following or backing. But instead they've had to recreate that push in a much more stagnate and premium environment. Where the status quo is king and big sells are limited to the familiar brands but it's only like that because they allowed it to be that one deminsional. lol


Truth is if DC and Marvel didn't beat out and eat up half their competition, there'd be more pipe lines for black creatives (or other) and thus more black characters (or other). Ushering a more consistent wave of promoted or grass roots followings. Which could have meant said individuals being hired to either of the aforementioned companies with a name or buzz behind them. Making marketing far easier and the talent pool more varied by default. It wouldn't be Preist and than almost no one else. Of course the dope boys in suits called the shots and with suits like Ike Perlmutter that ran old Marvel Studios as an example - a racist, homophobic, sexist...pos. It's easy to see why the comic book industry is the way it is.

[ChronoRogue]

It is also a business so Marvel would look at their readership and what is popular, money is always the biggest factor in a business.

How are we going to know what the readership is willing to accept or buy if you never break the mold and honestly push more diverse characters?

I think this sort of thinking is a fallacy, because popularity is very much dictated what characters get opportunities and stories. Think systemic racism but in comic form. Your not going to be able to create a popular minority character without effort and story focus. It needs to be consistent and it needs to happen over time. Of course the pubic is going to care about a character that is multi-dimensional and gets story focus (ie Cyclops) versus a character that's gets sporadically used and even when on teams is one step above wallpaper for decades (ie Bishop).

If Marvel never tried to push minority characters we wouldn't have break out characters like Miles or Ms Marvel.

Heck X-Men exemplifies this as well, as the X-Men's financial heyday was when Storm was a premier character during the 80s and yet during the 90s and into the 00s there was less and less focus on her. Was that the readers fault or the editors/writers? I'm very much leaning toward it being editorial.

[Kingdom X]

It is also a business so Marvel would look at their readership and what is popular, money is always the biggest factor in a business.

Ehhh that logic may work for solo series but the X-line is full of team books. As long as you have some classic X-Men in there writers should easily be able to diversify the team AND give those characters storylines.

[Devaishwarya]

It's not as simple as just deciding to use this PoC here or inserting that Black character there and they will sudenly be the best and most beloved characrers ever. And it's even more complex when it's a team book. A writer has to be competent. Look at Black Panther or Fallen Angels...both writers focused on PoC and those books were tragic messes and misses. Even Ewing's Mighty "Black" Avengers, with Blue Marvel, Monica Rambeau and America Chavez, wasn't the commercial success (the most important criteria) it could and should have been. Why was that?

And most of the times, it's the readers themselves who are to blame/decide the "fate" of the characters...look at the backlash/lack of interest in Vita's CotA...a book featuring CoC written by PoC... even before it was actually released.

[BroHomo]

It's not as simple as just deciding to use this PoC here or inserting that Black character there and they will sudenly be the best and most beloved characrers ever. And it's even more complex when it's a team book. A writer has to be competent. Look at Black Panther or Fallen Angels...both writers focused on PoC and those books were tragic messes and misses. Even Ewing's Mighty "Black" Avengers, with Blue Marvel, Monica Rambeau and America Chavez, wasn't the commercial success (the most important criteria) it could and should have been. Why was that?

And most of the times, it's the readers themselves who are to blame/decide the "fate" of the characters...look at the backlash/lack of interest in Vita's CotA...a book featuring CoC written by PoC... even before it was actually released.

Ehhh it's a buncha non Mutants appropriating Mutant (specifically X-Men) culture. After Hickman introduced the Resurrection Protocols the whole backlog of X Characters is wide open. A book about a new non Mutant teen book was not the move

[ChronoRogue]

It's not as simple as just deciding to use this PoC here or inserting that Black character there and they will sudenly be the best and most beloved characrers ever. And it's even more complex when it's a team book. A writer has to be competent. Look at Black Panther or Fallen Angels...both writers focused on PoC and those books were tragic messes and misses. Even Ewing's Mighty "Black" Avengers, with Blue Marvel, Monica Rambeau and America Chavez, wasn't the commercial success (the most important criteria) it could and should have been. Why was that?

And most of the times, it's the readers themselves who are to blame/decide the "fate" of the characters...look at the backlash/lack of interest in Vita's CotA...a book featuring CoC written by PoC... even before it was actually released.

That's not what anyone said. Again, look at CC and Storm. Not only was he a strong writer but also wrote Storm as a central character in many plots and storylines. And not just for an arc or two, this is was consistent use throughout the entirety of the 80s and again when he was brought back in the 00s.

As for why certain heavily PoC focused books might fail, it's the same reason any book might fail; lack of exposure, poor plot, etc... Consistency is key, none of Ewings Might Avengers cast had gotten used enough to properly support a title. And it's not just PoC who suffer from this, titles like New Warriors, Inhumans, etc... or any character that's underdeveloped has a hard time selling on their own. This is why you need to develop them alongside more popular characters, to get more exposure and get to why a character would be an asset or interesting.

You don't necessarily always need that, again there are success stories on the flip side, a bit usually they tend to be Legacy solo characters like Miles Morales or Ms Marvel. I agree that it can be complex on a team but that doesn't mean it can't or doesn't work. You just need balance; a solid cast with enough exposure (mix A, B and C list characters), a proper storyline focus to introduce the audience to the underdeveloped PoC characters and voila.

As for Vita's book; not to reiterate, but I think it's clear why introducing a lot of relatively unknown characters in one book serves as a big barrier in terms of being able to connect with audiences, let alone a whole team of Legacy characters which can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you get X-23 and other times you get Namorita... again, it has little to do with the ethnicity of the characters themselves, it has to do with how you develop and present them to the public. And personally, the only backlash I've seen regarding the book is that these time and resources could be used to develop already existing PoC characters in another book, not adding to an already bloated cast, which likely won't get much spotlight past this mini unless Vita gets to stay around for a long time. just like every other post-00s characters that have struggled to be introduced

[Wolverine12]

It's not as simple as just deciding to use this PoC here or inserting that Black character there and they will sudenly be the best and most beloved characrers ever. And it's even more complex when it's a team book. A writer has to be competent. Look at Black Panther or Fallen Angels...both writers focused on PoC and those books were tragic messes and misses. Even Ewing's Mighty "Black" Avengers, with Blue Marvel, Monica Rambeau and America Chavez, wasn't the commercial success (the most important criteria) it could and should have been. Why was that?

And most of the times, it's the readers themselves who are to blame/decide the "fate" of the characters...look at the backlash/lack of interest in Vita's CotA...a book featuring CoC written by PoC... even before it was actually released.

Did Ewing write Mighty Avengers? I did not know that. His run on Ultimates seems to be highly regarded as it should be and I believe is getting a complete collection soon.

[Steroid]

Did Ewing write Mighty Avengers? I did not know that. His run on Ultimates seems to be highly regarded as it should be and I believe is getting a complete collection soon.

Yep, before Ultimates he wrote Mighty Avengers and then Captain America and the Mighty Avengers.

[Devaishwarya]

We ask for diversity and representation but we want it the way we want it and with only our favourite PoC.....except we don't write for Marvel and the X-office. As for the CotA...we have no idea what those kids are...so...just excuses and baseless speculation at this time.

[ChronoRogue]

We ask for diversity and representation but we want it the way we want it and with only our favourite PoC.....except we don't write for Marvel and the X-office. As for the CotA...we have no idea what those kids are...so...just excuses and baseless speculation at this time.

I think you are confusing "want" with "need", not once did I mention that's how I'd prefer it to be written. I think a fair amount of people would be more than happy to get introduced to more developed PoC characters in more creative ways without the safety nets of working with an established and popular team but that's not reality and you end up taking a risk.

The other option would be being written by a creative team with a lot of star power, someone like CC was with the New Mutants or Bachalo was with Generation X both who had respectable runs. Heck, even Academy X/New X-Men was able to last for a good long while. The problem with all those teams is that no one cared enough to be consistent with those characters and when the creative team(s) involved left, the characters dropped into limbo. Again, consistency.

As for Vita, you asked why. No one is really going to know the inner workings on why a title might get rejected or welcomed because it's not a hard science. Unless you got evidence to the contrary to say why it is or isn't?

[OblivionX33]

As for Vita's book; not to reiterate, but I think it's clear why introducing a lot of relatively unknown characters in one book serves as a big barrier in terms of being able to connect with audiences, let alone a whole team of Legacy characters which can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you get X-23 and other times you get Namorita... again, it has little to do with the ethnicity of the characters themselves, it has to do with how you develop and present them to the public. And personally, the only backlash I've seen regarding the book is that these time and resources could be used to develop already existing PoC characters in another book, not adding to an already bloated cast, which likely won't get much spotlight past this mini unless Vita gets to stay around for a long time. just like every other post-00s characters that have struggled to be introduced

Nothing but the facts, if new or old readers aren't conditioned to be open to new pushes and the content they're getting in relation to it is milk toast or can barely pass the paper bag/quality test. How is any creative work going to live past the first issue? if the X-office chooses to stop consistently promoting and giving writers uninteresting plot tie-ins/outlines or sub-plots or positions for their characters as D+ level works or stuck with biased editor, while trying to get to a higher status only to still get D level material.


That's what is going to be expected and the fan base will act as they have been conditioned. Up to that point. Meaning there is little to no growth perspectives because all the decent to good to even great material is being given to more popular books or characters by default. Stopping a whole host of characters never getting a chance to handle them.

Which Marvel didn't allow to happen to Ms.Marvel or Miles Morales despite the early backlash and continued to give him and her the stage to shine. Although it does help that those two had/have a brand to fall back on.

[dkrook]

Ehhh it's a buncha non Mutants appropriating Mutant (specifically X-Men) culture. After Hickman introduced the Resurrection Protocols the whole backlog of X Characters is wide open. A book about a new non Mutant teen book was not the move

Thanks for beating me to it! I feel exactly the same way. If she came with this concept, then they should have trashed it. Now if they told her that is what they wanted her to write, then they should be trashed! All of that concept was off. I'm not even suggesting that Avita can't make good X-Men books.