Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[Havok83]

I love Maggott!

I completely forgot about him. I'll have to update what I said about being in a flagship title. He had potential but editorial nixxed that rather quickly

[donpricetag]

Well... They killed Synch and Tag, so...

Cecelia Reyes is fairly popular. At the end of the day people will like what they like. There aren't many (compared to the rest) prominent black characters in either of the big companies. Most of the fandom isn't black and I'm not saying it's a prerequisite but it does matter. Same way some people didn't like Luke Cage show and don't really mess with Black Lightning.. sometimes it's cultural, other times it's just taste. It's only a big deal if your so insecure about the position of minorities in pop culture. It is what it is.

[spirit2011]

Well are you going to say the obvious answer?

I believe:
1/3 of them are ugly as in "perversion of form" or "I wouldn't trade my real life for that, power-set"
1/3 of them are Zany... "Rainbow color spectrum field with with a burger king colored suit, and generic bald black guy look", and "My power is my that my sweat is acid", "Oh, my intestines are sentient war machines."
Even the power to heal... while cool, isn't exactly the superhuman lottery imho (my opinion, I don't want to hear about how awesome it is, I know I'd just rather be phoenix, thanks)

The rest have never been on the UNCANNY X-TEAM, they've been on derivative x-groups but.... it doesn't have the same reach.
.................................

Then there is Robert.

Sunspot is black.

Some might argue, "bi-racial" but every effort to disassociate him from the black struggle because he's brazilian, should immediately cause you to raise an eye at that person.
Thats NOT the one drop rule at play, its his first appearance that ensconced him as such, SO much and SOOO HARD that he actyally managed to stay darkskinned for decades *success*
but the reason he's SO important is the Brazilian governments actions in the Favela the past years.

The afro-brazillians have been dealing with a genocide for a few years now and erasure of the sunspots dark skin is SUPER in line with that issue.

https://www.google.com/search?q=afro...=1920&bih=1007
^ Just to save the you the research at least check out the titles^

Sunspot should be the leader of the X-men. Period.
Trained by Cable. Trained by Gideon. Brought into the hellfire club. Brought onto the Avengers. Bought A.I.M. Raised at the foot of Xaviers dream.

He's Superman, or Hyperion level, the older he gets the more powerful he becomes which is likely why the externals sought him out for sooo long.... before some writer decided that. "Oops it should be cannonball that lives forever, and goes on to lead the struggle." Even the whole Reignfire thing was him, or at least based of his genetics.

Sunspot has caught on and if there weren't ALREADY plans for Cyclops to come back you could literally have the X-men be lead by a "BLACK MALE", but think... since he's masculine, straight, and dark skinned... he is far to great a threat to the "Status Quo" of the X-men. Jesus, what if Jean kisses HIM? Or maddy or Rachel, or manic pixie X-girl.
The effects of the utter and absolute fear of black male hetero-sexuality cannot be understated in the american diaspora. So I'm shipping him with Illyana. . .

Sunspot, Illyana, Madrox. A.I.M 2019


More seriously thought.... If they can't give us an Uncanny X-title or X-men... Lead by Sunspot in 2019 after all the other things he's done this last few years? Its because they don't want, what you want in their books. -M_v

yeah one of the problems of black characters is that tptb doesnt want to change the status quo.
Sunspot got all his development on the last years on avengers books.
he can easily be one of the x-men leaders

I wonder if Bishop and Jean will happen, that would be a huge change on the status quo

[Silver Fang]

yeah one of the problems of black characters is that tptb doesnt want to change the status quo.
Sunspot got all his development on the last years on avengers books.
he can easily be one of the x-men leaders

I wonder if Bishop and Jean will happen, that would be a huge change on the status quo

I have doubts about it. The few new couples some writers tried to develop got shot down either no sooner than they happened or before that got to happen.

Jubilee & Chamber got together in GenX. And Chamber has been in NO book with Jubilee since then.
Rogue x Deadpool didn't go anywhere.
Tyke & Bloodstorm, we saw how that wrapped up.
Sabretooth x Monet,, and they really pissed me off in Weapon X.

Note, the ONLY couple that has gotten real focus & development (good or bad) has been Rogue x Gambit. Again, the nostalgia couple.

This romance Jean is supposedly having will be the same. Something they tease & don't deliver on. Or something they throw together really fast & probably break up equally as fast. Especially the chance any dude she's with will just be a transition guy before his character is run through the meat grinder when she starts getting chummy with Scott or Logan again.

Lets not have Bishop as the sacrificial lamb again. Especially to make Scott & Logan look good. They get enough special treatment w.o ruining Bishop as soon as he's brought back from hell.

[Mah VM]

I wonder if Bishop and Jean will happen, that would be a huge change on the status quo

It would be nice if Bishop and Jean were allowed to develop a stable relationship that would last a long time. Problem is, as with all old characters, Jean's story is stuck on a loop. Hers is being the third wheel in Scott and Logan's steamy... rivalry. There's no way writers would resist the temptation of inserting Scott or Logan or both into that story.

[Sundown]

I think it basically comes down to writers having their fan-boy faves and just not being interested in those "secondary" characters (they are not A-listers, and more decidedly B/C-listers) to begin with, coupled with...editorial "allowing" only certain characters to be used, and How and When they could be used. Plus...the (short) length of time current writers are given to tell their stories, before they move/are moved on to other books/projects.

Take Gentle on XMR by Taylor as a most recent example of my last point.
That was an 11-issue run. And While Gentle was given some character development, in order for him to be given the chance at Bishop-level prominence Taylor would have to be on that book for a good two years plus in order to devote some major story development time to the character. As it stands right now, Gentle is back in limbo.

Today's writers just aren't given the same opportunity and leeway as Claremont had back in the day, or even Bendis for a more recent example. They are writing plot-driven stories instead of character-driven stories. Then consider...as with Bendis, they would much rather devote time and effort into introducing and promoting their creator-owned characters rather than those belonging to/chosen by Marvel and editorial.

I think you make some very good points, here. I believe those things very much play into it, though the bolded I think is an issue in a different way. Reading between the lines in interviews, it sounds like stories are plotted out a year or better in advance at some retreat, and then writers are assigned. In short, unless you happen to be the golden child of their writers (like Bendis was, for awhile) then your ideas and the characters you, as a writer, might want to really do something with are curtailed, and it's editorially mandated who you'll focus on and who they (Marvel) want to push. I think that has a lot to do with the craptastic stories and characterization we've gotten in recent years.

I guarantee you that Bishop is "happening" now because it was mandated from editorial to push him. Same with Iceman, same with Jean, same with Kitty from Bendis to Guggenheim. Laura got the treatment for years.

To elaborate on the results mentioned: if a writer cares nothing for a character, has no understanding, empathy or interest for that character, yet someone tells him "hey, you're going to write this" -- odds are, it'll have bad results. I think black male characters can also suffer from the same thing female characters suffer from, at times, as well. The writer seems to have an inability to put himself in said character's shoes, so it can be extremely hard for the reader to relate.

For example, if you look at Wolverine, Cyclops, Havok or Cable (all who have recently led and gotten focus), as a reader you see them try and fail, you see them make mistakes, you see them struggle and do stuff that can make you cringe, but also make you want to read and see them do better next time, right? When do we have that with female characters? Sure, they have obstacles, but they're always outside influences. Jean's plan for world peace or whatever was wrecked by Cassandra Nova, not because Jean herself made a mistake. It's like a victimization of Mary Sue or something. Kitty is a terrible leader, absolutely awful and it's shown on panel, but no one calls her out on it.

How many of Bishop's screw ups have been by his own bad decisions? Was it that, or an external influence? Do you see where I'm going with this? In my opinion, for a reader to really invest in these characters, they have to be able to feel where they're coming from on some level. For that to happen, the writer has to consistently portray them that way, and that hasn't happened in quite some time. The last I can personally recall was Remender's UXF and that crew. As a reader, it was possible to feel for each and every one of those guys, even if you thought what they did was awful.

Another factor is what someone else pointed out, many on that list are just flat not appealing. The powers are uninteresting or the visuals are lacking. Triage had potential, but had no failings. There's no cost for his (arguably) godlike ability. Because of that, it's also an ability that could ruin the suspension of disbelief in an otherwise compellingly dangerous situation. "Oh, so and so is dead? Triage, fix him up." I mean, take a character like that, and make it cost him. Maybe it ages him by years every time he uses the ability. Maybe it drains his own life force, or any life around him. Make it matter, in other words.

I think that Sunspot should've been used before Cannonball, but that's just me. Bishop is already getting a push. Gentle, as Devaishwarya pointed out, would need at least a couple of years on Red to be developed into something.

I also think that Bishop has the advantage in that he was brought in as an adult to start with. For me as a reader, that alone makes him far more interesting than random teens added in. I honestly believe Bishop may have been part of the reason old guy Cable was killed off, since they are at least somewhat similar in attitude and both time travelers.

[JudicatorPrime]

Readers are smart. If a character isn't going to be the feature character, or have intriguing plots focused on him more than once every blue moon, or get powers that are cool and sexy with catchphrases that make them even cooler and sexier, or get the girl, or not die and stay dead, or... well, you see where I'm going with this. Now, when you couple that with an audience that is slow to take to certain characters anyway, it's easy to see why some characters don't last with the X-Men. For what it's worth, those characters don't last for very long in other team books, either. Not just Black males, but Asian males, Latino/Hispanic males, etc., etc.

[Midnight_v]

Readers are smart. If a character isn't going to be the feature character, or have intriguing plots focused on him more than once every blue moon, or get powers that are cool and sexy with catchphrases that make them even cooler and sexier, or get the girl, or not die and stay dead, or... well, you see where I'm going with this. Now, when you couple that with an audience that is slow to take to certain characters anyway, it's easy to see why some characters don't last with the X-Men. For what it's worth, those characters don't last for very long in other team books, either. Not just Black males, but Asian males, Latino/Hispanic males, etc., etc.

This guy actually gets it.

I really feel like these guys "die" and don't get to be the "Star", but MOST infuriatingly they don't have those named storylines focused around them
that catch your attention and MAKE you remember.

Genesis is a clone of Apocalypse so they're playing the "he's black" card.

EDIT: I forgot about that character.

Huh so we are talking about Evan. Funny I'd taken to Calling him "Kid Apocalypse" just inherently... weird.

Non-the-less... Am I missing something or aren't they exactly correct?
Did they need to draw him with a nappy Afro or... Is Apocalypse not from north africa anymore?

EDIT: Looked it up. He's from Aqaba, Jordan now.

[MYCMTSC]

Gentle has potential and its a shame that his development in Red has seemingly been ignored

Gentle and Manifold have potential to take off because of their Black Panther ties. I can't see this editorial regime being the ones to finally do right with characters of color. The fact that Roberto's run on Avengers hasn't been followed up on is sooooo disappointing.

[DragonsChi]

Are you sure? Because American and european media keeps pushing black male - white female relationships for some reason

Yeah, I'm sure. Because even the one's paired with white women are or are turned into Beta Meta males. More often then not.

[spirit2011]

I have doubts about it. The few new couples some writers tried to develop got shot down either no sooner than they happened or before that got to happen.

Jubilee & Chamber got together in GenX. And Chamber has been in NO book with Jubilee since then.
Rogue x Deadpool didn't go anywhere.
Tyke & Bloodstorm, we saw how that wrapped up.
Sabretooth x Monet,, and they really pissed me off in Weapon X.

Note, the ONLY couple that has gotten real focus & development (good or bad) has been Rogue x Gambit. Again, the nostalgia couple.

This romance Jean is supposedly having will be the same. Something they tease & don't deliver on. Or something they throw together really fast & probably break up equally as fast. Especially the chance any dude she's with will just be a transition guy before his character is run through the meat grinder when she starts getting chummy with Scott or Logan again.

Lets not have Bishop as the sacrificial lamb again. Especially to make Scott & Logan look good. They get enough special treatment w.o ruining Bishop as soon as he's brought back from hell.

You forgot peter/kitty. Another nostalgia couple that ended very badly.

Logan I can say for sure is not a contender. they had the chance to tell a story on the pass and always avoided that. return of Logan didnt hinted on anything.

I have no doubt Bishop would be thrown under the bus, if writers wanted a reason to get Jott again.

x-men has a serious problem of rehashing same storylines, couples and white characters.

[DragonsChi]

I think you make some very good points, here. I believe those things very much play into it, though the bolded I think is an issue in a different way. Reading between the lines in interviews, it sounds like stories are plotted out a year or better in advance at some retreat, and then writers are assigned. In short, unless you happen to be the golden child of their writers (like Bendis was, for awhile) then your ideas and the characters you, as a writer, might want to really do something with are curtailed, and it's editorially mandated who you'll focus on and who they (Marvel) want to push. I think that has a lot to do with the craptastic stories and characterization we've gotten in recent years.

I guarantee you that Bishop is "happening" now because it was mandated from editorial to push him. Same with Iceman, same with Jean, same with Kitty from Bendis to Guggenheim. Laura got the treatment for years.

To elaborate on the results mentioned: if a writer cares nothing for a character, has no understanding, empathy or interest for that character, yet someone tells him "hey, you're going to write this" -- odds are, it'll have bad results. I think black male characters can also suffer from the same thing female characters suffer from, at times, as well. The writer seems to have an inability to put himself in said character's shoes, so it can be extremely hard for the reader to relate.

For example, if you look at Wolverine, Cyclops, Havok or Cable (all who have recently led and gotten focus), as a reader you see them try and fail, you see them make mistakes, you see them struggle and do stuff that can make you cringe, but also make you want to read and see them do better next time, right? When do we have that with female characters? Sure, they have obstacles, but they're always outside influences. Jean's plan for world peace or whatever was wrecked by Cassandra Nova, not because Jean herself made a mistake. It's like a victimization of Mary Sue or something. Kitty is a terrible leader, absolutely awful and it's shown on panel, but no one calls her out on it.

How many of Bishop's screw ups have been by his own bad decisions? Was it that, or an external influence? Do you see where I'm going with this? In my opinion, for a reader to really invest in these characters, they have to be able to feel where they're coming from on some level. For that to happen, the writer has to consistently portray them that way, and that hasn't happened in quite some time. The last I can personally recall was Remender's UXF and that crew. As a reader, it was possible to feel for each and every one of those guys, even if you thought what they did was awful.

Another factor is what someone else pointed out, many on that list are just flat not appealing. The powers are uninteresting or the visuals are lacking. Triage had potential, but had no failings. There's no cost for his (arguably) godlike ability. Because of that, it's also an ability that could ruin the suspension of disbelief in an otherwise compellingly dangerous situation. "Oh, so and so is dead? Triage, fix him up." I mean, take a character like that, and make it cost him. Maybe it ages him by years every time he uses the ability. Maybe it drains his own life force, or any life around him. Make it matter, in other words.

I think that Sunspot should've been used before Cannonball, but that's just me. Bishop is already getting a push. Gentle, as Devaishwarya pointed out, would need at least a couple of years on Red to be developed into something.

I also think that Bishop has the advantage in that he was brought in as an adult to start with. For me as a reader, that alone makes him far more interesting than random teens added in. I honestly believe Bishop may have been part of the reason old guy Cable was killed off, since they are at least somewhat similar in attitude and both time travelers.

This post is so on the mark.

[Coal Tiger]

Has any character created after 1991 actually caught on?

[WallStreeter]

Sunspot is mostly viewed as black but let me say this as a biracial. Not every black person agrees with the One Drop Rule. While many would view Sunspot as black there are people who see him as otherwise

Not to get into this stupid debate, but nearly every Black person in the Americas has European, Asian, and/or Native Americans. To just try to push people with one non Black parent has "biracial" is really offensive to our family histories, and it's ridiculous to claim this person is more "mixed" than that person.

[WallStreeter]

Sunspot would catch on if he was more consistently used in the comics. He is in the New Mutants film, but he was not cast a Black. If he is recast in the films and if he is able to join the main team of X-Men he'd catch on.

I think Maggot could catch on if he were consistently used in comics as well. Definitely Synch would. With X-Men joining MCU, perhaps we'll see more Black mutants on screen. This will lead to more consistent usage in the comics, ultimately.