Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[Michael Watkins]

IMHO, it absolutely was jejune and banal. In the way that watching Black people get killed first in a 1980s horror or action movie is banal. Marvel lost readers that day, and it wasn't because that was such an awesome bang-up good job that they did with that story. Quite the opposite. It's probably why so many here are still calling for Synch or someone like him to be returned to prominence. Disappointment and dissatisfaction tend to do that.

that's just a stereotype/exaggeration meant to highlight the lack of voice that black characters have in cinema. the black guy from Night of the Living Dead wasn't a one-off.

[Michael Watkins]

Tweak the placement of their claws. Ok, so they all do have claws then.

they are family members like Scott and Alex. and still, i would find it unwise to put them on the same roster.

Telepaths
Elementals
Ferals
Shoots rays(from whatever orifice available).
Strong/invulnerable.

^not sure what you're trying to demonstrate. being able to manipulate fire isn't the same as being able to manipulate the wind or ice.

There are at least 3 different characters who have these powersets and these are just a few.

you're glossing over the part about them being spread out to avoid redundancy.

And their motivation does matter. It's why Scott and Alex are different characters even though all they do is shoot beams. It's why Logan is different from Creed who is different from X-23 even though the placement of their claws is different.

their motivation doesn't matter until a writer cares about to use them. and if their powers are redundant, that hurts their chances of being used. there really isn't anything similar about Scott and Alex's powers. but they are rarely on the same team. they are often used as adversaries. Creed and Wolverine are fine on their own. but it's not an ideal situation for them to be on the same team. they are so redundant that, when Logan was believed to be dead, they just substituted in Sabretooth.

[Havok83]

their motivation doesn't matter until a writer cares about to use them. and if their powers are redundant, that hurts their chances of being used. there really isn't anything similar about Scott and Alex's powers. but they are rarely on the same team. they are often used as adversaries. Creed and Wolverine are fine on their own. but it's not an ideal situation for them to be on the same team. they are so redundant that, when Logan was believed to be dead, they just substituted in Sabretooth.

IDA with that. Like the Scott/Jean/Wolverine triangle, I feel like thats something thats blown way out of proportion

As far as redundant powers, thats only an issue with writers that lack creativity and only view characters as functions of their powers. X-men vol 4 had 3 characters with telepathy and telekinesis and that redundancy never felt like an issue. Ditto for the Yost/Kyle X-force

[sungila]

A possible answer to this question is that Bishop, himself, has yet to really catch on. I don't even think we've made it to this part. Good question to ask though.

Even the fanbase lacks diversity, but it's getting so much closer to being uncomfortable to say that.

And hell yes Bishop means more than anybody in the X-Men to somebody and somebodies I'm sure...and hell yes for that!

[dkrook]

Nah that story wasnt boring.

That story wasn't just boring, it was horribly thought out. How is the one mutant that can snatch up the abilities of other powerful mutants instantaneously not be able to survive. Remember it was canon that Synch was able to carry the powers of more than one powerful mutant at a time, and for a long duration after first Synchronicity.

[Killerbee911]

A possible answer to this question is that Bishop, himself, has yet to really catch on. I don't even think we've made it to this part. Good question to ask though.

Even the fanbase lacks diversity, but it's getting so much closer to being uncomfortable to say that.

And hell yes Bishop means more than anybody in the X-Men to somebody and somebodies I'm sure...and hell yes to that!

Bishop has District X and I believe life and times of Lucas Bishop that both went around 17 issues and couple more mini series. Bishop was a regular in the X-men team rotation never going into limbo until the Messiah nonsense. . After they decide to bring out of limbo he showed up in Uncanny Force, Then Uncanny X-men then X-men disassemble. He got significant role in Prisoner X he was basically the lead. Now he is on Marauders. Bishop has catch on imo and he is one few X-men that is easy conceptually to do a solo because Police/Detective concept easy to do. Which is why he gots mini series(or soloish attempts) at about rate every 3 or 4 years when he was active only stopping because of the Messiah mess making him a bad guy and it kinda start back with prisoner X was he got back. He wasn't the most popular X-man but he never went into limbo and mentioned they gave him miniseries.

The worst part of Messiah Complex/War stuff is that Bishop was not around in good standing when Cyclops and Wolverine was dead. What does mean the period of time when the X-men need an "Alpha" type male or character with leadership characteristic. Bishop was recovering from one of the biggest character assassination and couldn't step in and fill the void. It is kinda funny but a by the rules character kinda of boy scout type who wears a yellow and blue suit similar to X-men training suit who shoots out red concussive blasts he would have seamlessly fill in for Cyclops(even sleeping with his wife). And that is reason Bishop has not caught on in the manner to seen as big time star, He is leadership style archetype who gets used in supporting roles. The best Bishop imo was in X-treme where Storm was the leader but Bishop functioned as tactical/field leader quite bit. I think he flourish in that spot

So yeah I think Bishop has caught on, Not every character is going to Storm,Cyclops,Wolverine level impact, So to be able to survive roster shifts and be some what impactful when a book isn't alway focus on you. Plus when a book is focus on you it is does solid is mark of catching on.

Age of X-Man Prisoner X 1 $3.99 03/06/19 Marvel 29,006
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 2 $3.99 04/03/19 Marvel 17,893
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 3 $3.99 05/01/19 Marvel 15,581
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 4 $3.99 06/05/19 Marvel 14,550

When X-men does put Bishop in leadership role with some consistency, I think he will accel more. I mean he is literal tailormade lead every incarnation of X-factor government sponsored one, X Factor investigation or when they had corporate sponsor thing going on.

[dkrook]

Bishop has District X and I believe life and times of Lucas Bishop that both went around 17 issues and couple more mini series. Bishop was a regular in the X-men team rotation never going into limbo until the Messiah nonsense. . After they decide to bring out of limbo he showed up in Uncanny Force, Then Uncanny X-men then X-men disassemble. He got significant role in Prisoner X he was basically the lead. Now he is on Marauders. Bishop has catch on imo and he is one few X-men that is easy conceptually to do a solo because Police/Detective concept easy to do. Which is why he gots mini series(or soloish attempts) at about rate every 3 or 4 years when he was active only stopping because of the Messiah mess making him a bad guy and it kinda start back with prisoner X was he got back. He wasn't the most popular X-man but he never went into limbo and mentioned they gave him miniseries.

The worst part of Messiah Complex/War stuff is that Bishop was not around in good standing when Cyclops and Wolverine was dead. What does mean the period of time when the X-men need an "Alpha" type male or character with leadership characteristic. Bishop was recovering from one of the biggest character assassination and couldn't step in and fill the void. It is kinda funny but a by the rules character kinda of boy scout type who wears a yellow and blue suit similar to X-men training suit who shoots out red concussive blasts he would have seamlessly fill in for Cyclops(even sleeping with his wife). And that is reason Bishop has not caught on in the manner to seen as big time star, He is leadership style archetype who gets used in supporting roles. The best Bishop imo was in X-treme where Storm was the leader but Bishop functioned as tactical/field leader quite bit. I think he flourish in that spot

So yeah I think Bishop has caught on, Not every character is going to Storm,Cyclops,Wolverine level impact, So to be able to survive roster shifts and be some what impactful when a book isn't alway focus on you. Plus when a book is focus on you it is does solid is mark of catching on.

Age of X-Man Prisoner X 1 $3.99 03/06/19 Marvel 29,006
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 2 $3.99 04/03/19 Marvel 17,893
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 3 $3.99 05/01/19 Marvel 15,581
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 4 $3.99 06/05/19 Marvel 14,550

When X-men does put Bishop in leadership role with some consistency, I think he will accel more. I mean he is literal tailormade lead every incarnation of X-factor government sponsored one, X Factor investigation or when they had corporate sponsor thing going on.

I love the points you made for Bishop, so now the true issue of this post is why can't anyone else at least get to that level he's at.

[Havok83]

The worst part of Messiah Complex/War stuff is that Bishop was not around in good standing when Cyclops and Wolverine was dead. What does mean the period of time when the X-men need an "Alpha" type male or character with leadership characteristic. Bishop was recovering from one of the biggest character assassination and couldn't step in and fill the void. It is kinda funny but a by the rules character kinda of boy scout type who wears a yellow and blue suit similar to X-men training suit who shoots out red concussive blasts he would have seamlessly fill in for Cyclops(even sleeping with his wife). And that is reason Bishop has not caught on in the manner to seen as big time star, He is leadership style archetype who gets used in supporting roles. The best Bishop imo was in X-treme where Storm was the leader but Bishop functioned as tactical/field leader quite bit. I think he flourish in that spot

Why did the line need an Alpha male? Wolverine and Scott being dead meant that it gave the women an opportunity to step up which was needed after being so male driven for so long. Leadership rotating between Storm, Kitty, Jean, Psylocke and Magik (and even Iceman was a welcomed change

[Killerbee911]

Why did the line need an Alpha male? Wolverine and Scott being dead meant that it gave the women an opportunity to step up which was needed after being so male driven for so long. Leadership rotating between Storm, Kitty, Jean, Psylocke and Magik (and even Iceman was a welcomed change

Because that is enjoyable part of X-men line for some people, It didn't mean the Women wouldn't be charge then, It just meant that the X-men during that period didn't have defining male figure. There is a reason "Alpha" in quotes and reason is the concept is bs but it was quickest way to explain it and people get of picture of what was missing. Anyways the line didn't have demonstrative male characters and a balance of things is nice the franchise. Bishop was a strong tactical leader imo under Storm in X-treme X-men the point wasn't about women not being in charge. It was about opportunity for a male figure shine without Cyclops and Wolverine who dominate page time and that would have be a welcomed change.

[Havok83]

Because that is enjoyable part of X-men line for some people, It didn't mean the Women wouldn't be charge then, It just meant that the X-men during that period didn't have defining male figure. There is a reason "Alpha" in quotes and reason is the concept is bs but it was quickest way to explain it and people get of picture of what was missing. Anyways the line didn't have demonstrative male characters and a balance of things is nice the franchise. Bishop was a strong tactical leader imo under Storm in X-treme X-men the point wasn't about women not being in charge. It was about opportunity for a male figure shine without Cyclops and Wolverine who dominate page time and that would have be a welcomed change.

I didnt mention him but the line did have Magneto, whom was a lead figure in Bunn's two X-books so its not like the X-men was devoid of Alpha males

[CRaymond]

The X-Men are about training young mutants in the proper use of their powers and rehabilitating older mutants in the proper use of their judgment.

Bishop was introduced as an adult with his powers training complete and his judgment alignment Good/Lawful during a time the X-Men had assembled into focussed strike teams. Like Athena, he was a designed badass, and burst onto the scene fully formed. His growth should have been in building personal relationships, and sharing his own past. The 90s ignored him, and the 00s failed him.

He should be leading, which is why I'd prefer Kate to be in Hellfire Bay and Bishop leading the Red Fleet extrication missions... for now. I don't think Marauders is the right place for him, but I'm full of different ideas. Red Bishop is fine for now.

So.

Why haven't other black male characters ascended to badassery? Because they're young and untrained, or old and misguided.

Gentle, Match, Synch and Prodigy all need training.
Moses Magnum, Apocalypse, Wraith, and Hairbag are misguided.

Bedlam needs training and guidance.

[Michael Watkins]

given Bishop's background, i'm legitimately surprised that he hasn't taken some of these students aside and taught them X.S.E-style. some of the limbo bound minority characters could be getting training from Lucas.

[sungila]

Bishop has District X and I believe life and times of Lucas Bishop that both went around 17 issues and couple more mini series. Bishop was a regular in the X-men team rotation never going into limbo until the Messiah nonsense. . After they decide to bring out of limbo he showed up in Uncanny Force, Then Uncanny X-men then X-men disassemble. He got significant role in Prisoner X he was basically the lead. Now he is on Marauders. Bishop has catch on imo and he is one few X-men that is easy conceptually to do a solo because Police/Detective concept easy to do. Which is why he gots mini series(or soloish attempts) at about rate every 3 or 4 years when he was active only stopping because of the Messiah mess making him a bad guy and it kinda start back with prisoner X was he got back. He wasn't the most popular X-man but he never went into limbo and mentioned they gave him miniseries.

The worst part of Messiah Complex/War stuff is that Bishop was not around in good standing when Cyclops and Wolverine was dead. What does mean the period of time when the X-men need an "Alpha" type male or character with leadership characteristic. Bishop was recovering from one of the biggest character assassination and couldn't step in and fill the void. It is kinda funny but a by the rules character kinda of boy scout type who wears a yellow and blue suit similar to X-men training suit who shoots out red concussive blasts he would have seamlessly fill in for Cyclops(even sleeping with his wife). And that is reason Bishop has not caught on in the manner to seen as big time star, He is leadership style archetype who gets used in supporting roles. The best Bishop imo was in X-treme where Storm was the leader but Bishop functioned as tactical/field leader quite bit. I think he flourish in that spot

So yeah I think Bishop has caught on, Not every character is going to Storm,Cyclops,Wolverine level impact, So to be able to survive roster shifts and be some what impactful when a book isn't alway focus on you. Plus when a book is focus on you it is does solid is mark of catching on.

Age of X-Man Prisoner X 1 $3.99 03/06/19 Marvel 29,006
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 2 $3.99 04/03/19 Marvel 17,893
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 3 $3.99 05/01/19 Marvel 15,581
Age of X-Man Prisoner X 4 $3.99 06/05/19 Marvel 14,550

When X-men does put Bishop in leadership role with some consistency, I think he will accel more. I mean he is literal tailormade lead every incarnation of X-factor government sponsored one, X Factor investigation or when they had corporate sponsor thing going on.

I appreciate the work you took in responding to my post and reframing the perspective.
This doesn't directly speak to my concerns about comics and comic message boards being places where diversity is more discussed than actually represented though.

I am, for instance, a white male American.

talking about Bishop etc...

Leadership is overrated.

[CRaymond]

given Bishop's background, i'm legitimately surprised that he hasn't taken some of these students aside and taught them X.S.E-style. some of the limbo bound minority characters could be getting training from Lucas.

Because then he’d be Cable.

[dkrook]

I didnt mention him but the line did have Magneto, whom was a lead figure in Bunn's two X-books so its not like the X-men was devoid of Alpha males

So then what's the issue with having a black alpha male mutant play a prominent role or at least in the rotation? The gymnastics involved in avoiding him or any other black male mutant as a certified team leader is both laughable and sad!