Why haven't any of the Black Male X-men caught on other than Bishop?

[Ra-El]

Uh, do you know who the Lakota are? That wasn't about Sunspot. This comment was about the people whining that the actress they picked for Moonstar wasn't dark enough.

I personally find it more interesting that no one's complaining about how they cast a Lakota to play a Cheyenne... Or are all "redskins" the same to you?

Realistically the reason is that Lakota are more numerous so it's easier to find a Lakota actress.

The funny thing with Zaga is that his ancestry actually includes members of the tribes native to Brazil. It makes calling him a "white guy" a bit odd.

That panel calling Roberto da Costa a "halfbreed" is equally applicable to Natives as to blacks. To me Roberto looks more like a native in that panel.

Is really hard to find someone in Brasil that don't have some native or black ancestors. And here, blackness is much more defined by the skin color than by anything else, take a walk down a street in Brasil, show pictures of Zaga and you will not here anyone saying he is black.

[Kingdom X]

He really said “I don’t care about the racism in Brazil,” I honestly feel sick to my stomach. I really can’t stand people who claim to be dedicated to representation who do stuff like this. Also thank you to those who pointed out the tribal discrepancies in Dani’s casting. I honestly didn’t even think of that because Hollywood is still so bad at casting accurately on a racial level. This type of thing happens a lot with East Asian actresses like with Lana Condor playing Korean and Japanese characters even though she’s Vietnamese.

[ChronoRogue]

Uh, do you know who the Lakota are? That wasn't about Sunspot. This comment was about the people whining that the actress they picked for Moonstar wasn't dark enough.

I personally find it more interesting that no one's complaining about how they cast a Lakota to play a Cheyenne... Or are all "redskins" the same to you?

Realistically the reason is that Lakota are more numerous so it's easier to find a Lakota actress.

The funny thing with Zaga is that his ancestry actually includes members of the tribes native to Brazil. It makes calling him a "white guy" a bit odd.

That panel calling Roberto da Costa a "halfbreed" is equally applicable to Natives as to blacks. To me Roberto looks more like a native in that panel.

Why are you using a slur in your example? That seems unnecessary.

Ideally I would've wanted a Cheyenne actress for Moonstar yes. What you are describing is ethnicity vs colorism. No, not all tribes are the same and neither is racial ancestry.

The black community in the Americas themselves are made up of various African tribes that have different genetic ancestry and cultures, that sometimes can vary wildly from group to group. The same applies to Native Americans. This is why race is in part considered a social structure due to how society or groups in power have classified people based on their skin tones less than true ancestry.

So yes, considering the power dynamics involved I would've been fine any actress that was plainly "Native American" even if she was not specifically Cheyenne. Just like I would've been fine any with black actor for Sunspot or Cecelia Reyes despite not knowing exactly what part of Africa his ancestry might have come from. Minority groups from the Americas have, at times, formed a monolithic identity group as a combination of protection and shared experiences enough for me not to be that bothered when casting choices are not completely 100% accurate; some not even completely aware of their own ethnic history due to years of oppression. However Hollywood in general could strive to be more ethnically accurate as well, as they have shown the ability to be more culturally aware... but only when money is involved such as Fox trying to get Chinese audiences money with Fan Binging.

Except mestizoes or "halfbreeds" are the dominant racial and ethnic group in South and Central American countries. Facing racial discrimination for being a "half-breed" for native ancestry makes no sense and again, Roberto is clearly Afro-Latinx in his history. It's clear CC was portraying racism toward dark-skinned (afro-latinx) latinx people in Brazil.

----------

Edit you clearly had this conversation with another poster several days ago, I don't know why you are saying Sunspot looks native when the artist and script have him portrayed --- and stated ON-PANEL --- that he is black.


Can you please stop being disingenuous here?

[BroHomo]

Uh, do you know who the Lakota are? That wasn't about Sunspot. This comment was about the people whining that the actress they picked for Moonstar wasn't djark enough.

Uh it's not that she's not dark enough. Blu Hunt is obviously a white person with some native ancestry and lives being seen as a white girl. Dani couldn't have and Boone even.stated he wouldnt cast "a model who claimed heritage" And yet.....

I personally find it more interesting that no one's complaining about how they cast a Lakota to play a Cheyenne... Or are all "redskins" the same to you?

Dude you just wrote about people's whining about it...make up your mind

Realistically the reason is that Lakota are more numerous so it's easier to find a Lakota actress.

lol Yeah there's tons more Lakota actresses out there. Realistically their the only tribe Blu Hunt it her agent could get to authenticate her in a hurry

The funny thing with Zaga is that his ancestry actually includes members of the tribes native to Brazil. It makes calling him a "white guy" a bit odd.

oooook what's that gotta do with Sunspot whoAFAIK doesn't have native ancestry

That panel calling Roberto da Costa a "halfbreed" is equally applicable to Natives as to blacks. To me Roberto looks more like a native in that panel.

lol you think he looks native despite what everyone sees....despite claremont intended, despite on the page someone is calling him black....ok wow!

I'm not familiar with Sunspot's history, so I don't know if he was ever again mistreated for being black, apart from that original story? Because, I can't remember any story where mutants were hated and mistreated more because they were black or gay or part of some other minority group. I think all mutants are hated equally, even if they are white and rich like Angel or Emma Frost - they are still hated and treated like monsters. And I think that even if Sunspot was originally drawn as he currently is, it wouldn't have changed his origin story - he still would be a biracial guy with skin much darker than that of his predominantly white peers.

Oh lord...

[Havok83]

I'm not familiar with Sunspot's history, so I don't know if he was ever again mistreated for being black, apart from that original story? Because, I can't remember any story where mutants were hated and mistreated more because they were black or gay or part of some other minority group. I think all mutants are hated equally, even if they are white and rich like Angel or Emma Frost - they are still hated and treated like monsters. And I think that even if Sunspot was originally drawn as he currently is, it wouldn't have changed his origin story - he still would be a biracial guy with skin much darker than that of his predominantly white peers.

Have you not read a storyline with the Morlocks bc some mutants do get it worse. There is privilege even among mutants that can and cant pass. All mutants are not hated equally

[BroHomo]

Why are you using a slur in your example? That seems unnecessary.

Ideally I would've wanted a Cheyenne actress for Moonstar yes. What you are describing is ethnicity vs colorism. No, not all tribes are the same and neither is racial ancestry.

The black community in the Americas themselves are made up of various African tribes that have different genetic ancestry and cultures, that sometimes can vary wildly from group to group. The same applies to Native Americans. This is why race is in part considered a social structure due to how society or groups in power have classified people based on their skin tones less than true ancestry.

So yes, considering the power dynamics involved I would've been fine any actress that was plainly "Native American" even if she was not specifically Cheyenne. Just like I would've been fine any with black actor for Sunspot or Cecelia Reyes despite not knowing exactly what part of Africa his ancestry might have come from. Minority groups from the Americas have, at times, formed a monolithic identity group as a combination of protection and shared experiences enough for me not to be that bothered when casting choices are not completely 100% accurate; some not even completely aware of their own ethnic history due to years of oppression. However Hollywood in general could strive to be more ethnically accurate as well, as they have shown the ability to be more culturally aware... but only when money is involved such as Fox trying to get Chinese audiences money with Fan Binging.

Except mestizoes or "halfbreeds" are the dominant racial and ethnic group in South and Central American countries. Facing racial discrimination for being a "half-breed" for native ancestry makes no sense and again, Roberto is clearly Afro-Latinx in his history. It's clear CC was portraying racism toward dark-skinned (afro-latinx) latinx people in Brazil.

----------

Edit you clearly had this conversation with another poster several days ago, I don't know why you are saying Sunspot looks native when the artist and script have him portrayed --- and stated ON-PANEL --- that he is black.


Can you please stop being disingenuous here?

Damn this is pretty good post to!

[Silver Fang]

He really said “I don’t care about the racism in Brazil,” I honestly feel sick to my stomach. I really can’t stand people who claim to be dedicated to representation who do stuff like this. Also thank you to those who pointed out the tribal discrepancies in Dani’s casting. I honestly didn’t even think of that because Hollywood is still so bad at casting accurately on a racial level. This type of thing happens a lot with East Asian actresses like with Lana Condor playing Korean and Japanese characters even though she’s Vietnamese.

One famous case in WWE. Yokozuna. A big Samoan man playing a Japanese.


But this is MILD compared to all the racist gimmicks they gave black performers. Like Virgil the slave.

[4sake Baned]

Uh it's not that she's not dark enough. Blu Hunt is obviously a white person with some native ancestry and lives being seen as a white girl. Dani couldn't have and Boone even.stated he wouldnt cast "a model who claimed heritage" And yet.....

Dude you just wrote about people's whining about it...make up your mind

lol Yeah there's tons more Lakota actresses out there. Realistically their the only tribe Blu Hunt it her agent could get to authenticate her in a hurry

oooook what's that gotta do with Sunspot whoAFAIK doesn't have native ancestry

lol you think he looks native despite what everyone sees....despite claremont intended, despite on the page someone is calling him black....ok wow!

Oh lord...

This

Moonstar casting is the same level of whitewashing White supremacists retread trash as Sunspots & Cece are.They purposely went out and found the whiteist/white passing Actors and actresses they can fine for these roles. I looking forward to seeing this film bomb & greatly Underperform.

Cannonball casting is trash aswell but other reasons.

[marhawkman]

He really said “I don’t care about the racism in Brazil,” I honestly feel sick to my stomach. I really can’t stand people who claim to be dedicated to representation who do stuff like this.

You should read the whole quote.

Boone: I didn’t care so much about the racism I’ve heard about in Brazil, about light-skinned versus dark-skinned. To me, it was I wanted to represent Brazil in a positive way and I wanted to find somebody who seems like he could look like a guy who’s had the silver spoon in his mouth, who has like a really rich dad and [Henry] just exemplified all these things.

To me, he's saying he doesn't want to go there because he doesn't want to portray Brazil as a country of racists. I don't see how he could have crammed it in and actually done a proper explanation of it.

Also thank you to those who pointed out the tribal discrepancies in Dani’s casting. I honestly didn’t even think of that because Hollywood is still so bad at casting accurately on a racial level. This type of thing happens a lot with East Asian actresses like with Lana Condor playing Korean and Japanese characters even though she’s Vietnamese.

Realistically? Most people don't know the difference. You need a clearly and accurately defined concept of what a Korean person looks like to be able to look at a Japanese person playing a Korean and immediately know the difference. It's easier to notice if they try to speak Korean and do it with a bad accent. Wait that requires you to know what Korean's supposed to sound like.

Why are you using a slur in your example? That seems unnecessary.

It was a quote from the comic panel...

Ideally I would've wanted a Cheyenne actress for Moonstar yes. What you are describing is ethnicity vs colorism. No, not all tribes are the same and neither is racial ancestry.

The black community in the Americas themselves are made up of various African tribes that have different genetic ancestry and cultures, that sometimes can vary wildly from group to group. The same applies to Native Americans. This is why race is in part considered a social structure due to how society or groups in power have classified people based on their skin tones less than true ancestry.

So yes, considering the power dynamics involved I would've been fine any actress that was plainly "Native American" even if she was not specifically Cheyenne.

The problem with this thought process is that it requires you to have an accurate idea as to what a Plains Indian looks like. The stereotype is actually derived from people who spent their lives getting baked in the sun. what do they look like if they don't get baked in the sun? well... Blu Hunt is a good example.

She actually has darker skin than some of the ways Moonstar has been colored in the comics.

Just like I would've been fine any with black actor for Sunspot or Cecelia Reyes despite not knowing exactly what part of Africa his ancestry might have come from. Minority groups from the Americas have, at times, formed a monolithic identity group as a combination of protection and shared experiences enough for me not to be that bothered when casting choices are not completely 100% accurate; some not even completely aware of their own ethnic history due to years of oppression.

I went to high school with two Blackfoot. They didn't really look "white" but also didn't look "Hispanic". Josh and Tabitha kinda looked like they had a permanent tan but didn't have any other distinctive features. They had about the same shade of skin as Blu Hunt actually. Thing is they knew they were Blackfoot. They didn't really CARE in the sense of "respecting the traditions of their ancestors", but they knew who their ancestors were. Well, they lived in Arkansas for whatever reason and Blackfoot reservations are in Montana or Canada. Yeah, I don't really know why their parents moved to Arkansas.

Except mestizoes or "halfbreeds" are the dominant racial and ethnic group in South and Central American countries. Facing racial discrimination for being a "half-breed" for native ancestry makes no sense and again, Roberto is clearly Afro-Latinx in his history. It's clear CC was portraying racism toward dark-skinned (afro-latinx) latinx people in Brazil.

I suppose that's a good point, but... what ethnicity were the people beating up Roberto?

I don't know why you are saying Sunspot looks native

I was talking about the specific way a specific artist drew him in a specific panel.

[Will Evans]

One famous case in WWE. Yokozuna. A big Samoan man playing a Japanese.


But this is MILD compared to all the racist gimmicks they gave black performers. Like Virgil the slave.

That last pic. WTH!!!

[ChronoRogue]

It was a quote from the comic panel...

I am not following you. I have been talking about Roberto, you moved this conversation to talking about Dani's casting and neither of the two panels I posted referenced or made a reference to "red skin".

The problem with this thought process is that it requires you to have an accurate idea as to what a Plains Indian looks like. The stereotype is actually derived from people who spent their lives getting baked in the sun. what do they look like if they don't get baked in the sun? well... Blu Hunt is a good example.
She actually has darker skin than some of the ways Moonstar has been colored in the comics.

Given that Marvel and colorists have a history of increasingly whitewashing that is not surprising...

As for Hunt looking Native American or not due to tanning or colorism issues, I'm never had a problem with Hunts skin color. You brought up this issue, not me. I'm aware that tanning across Native Americans, Latinx and Asians is more varied and can be influenced by things like outdoor activities. Personally, while I am not a fan of Hunts casting, as I do see more Cacuasian features than Native features; I can live with the casting. It's not ideal but she still has native American ancestry.

What is unacceptable is giving clearly black roles to two Caucasian actors (with possible native american ancestry). That makes zero sense, especially when Roberto's origin clearly cites discrimination due to racist and colorism issues.

I went to high school with two Blackfoot. They didn't really look "white" but also didn't look "Hispanic". Josh and Tabitha kinda looked like they had a permanent tan but didn't have any other distinctive features. They had about the same shade of skin as Blu Hunt actually. Thing is they knew they were Blackfoot. They didn't really CARE in the sense of "respecting the traditions of their ancestors", but they knew who their ancestors were. Well, they lived in Arkansas for whatever reason and Blackfoot reservations are in Montana or Canada. Yeah, I don't really know why their parents moved to Arkansas.

So you are saying you do not need to metaphorically check all the stereotypical boxes of a certain ethnicity or race to identify with a racial or ethnic group. Sure that is fine, however... this is less relevant when the comics make it explicitly clear a character is a certain shade, race or ethnicity. As a director portraying or translating a film they have a responsibility to try and accurately translate the character into the film. This is especially important for minority characters which do not have the same opportunities as Caucasian actors in Hollywood. Colorism is another thing as well.

Clearly Boone is tone-deaf in terms of why this is important and I don't respect the answer he gave regarding what was important or not in the portrayal of the character. To lots of people, a character heritage and yes skin color can be important factors in being able to relate or identify with characters. Not everyone, but clearly fans are upset (and have been upset) since these casting choices were made.

I suppose that's a good point, but... what ethnicity were the people beating up Roberto?

Probably Caucasian Latinx. Possibly lighter-skinned Mestizos which are in denial as well and still discriminate. You know... like the actual colorism discrimination that occur in Brazil which CC probably took inspiration from and which the director is wholly ignorant about.

I was talking about the specific way a specific artist drew him in a specific panel.

Ok but what was the point in bringing that up in the discussion? It honestly looked like you were trying to imply Roberto was native instead of black, which is just kinda ridiculous considering the creative intent and basically everyone else interpretation of that scene. though to be fair he could possibly still have some native in him, given we don't know much about his mothers heirtage just that she seems to have light skin and hair

[cyclops_was_right]

Those quotes regarding not being aware about racism in Brazil are just dumb, might as well rather plead ignorance, though saying that you haven't even bothered to look at the very first story of your source (which has that "halfbreed" remark) material isn't that great either.

Though the whole discussion is interesting. If we insist that Dani should be played by someone Cheyenne rather than Lakota, shouldn't the same also be true about having a Scots actress playing Rahne rather than an Englishwoman like Maisie Williams?

Maybe it doesn't matter in the US, but within the context of the UK it does as far as I am aware and comic book Rahne is born and raised in Scotland. After all there are grievances from the English that the Scottish could claim.

I think it's understandable to want an actor cast for a role that has the same race as the source material and who looks the part at the same time. But I feel like some of these discussions are driving it to a point that's just not achievable.

It should be perfectly achievable to have the characters played by the race they're in the source material because of the available pool of talent, but beyond that insisting even on getting the ethnicity 100% on spot for every actor is a bit extreme and I'd prefer they choose the best actor rather than one who fits every single bill for the source material.

So I'd rather have an Englishwoman like Maisie Williams who somewhat looks the part and is an ok actress play Rahne than a less skilled Scottish actress who is a carbon copy of comic book Rahne up to the red hair.

[Harasar]

Have you not read a storyline with the Morlocks bc some mutants do get it worse. There is privilege even among mutants that can and cant pass. All mutants are not hated equally

I specifically said that mutants who are also a part of some minority group, aren't treated worse than white heterosexual mutants. Morlocks are treated worse not because their race or sexual orientation, but because their powers deformed their appearances and many of them don't look like humans. Nightcrawler also got it worse, and in his first appearance was almost killed by a mob, because he looks like a demon. I also remember a story about Anole having problems with self-confidence, not because he is a mutant and gay, but because he is a mutant, gay, and looks like a lizard. Northstar tried to gave him advice, but was turned down by Anole, because while both of them are mutants and gay, Northstar looks like a model, so he can't really relate to Anole's problems. It was actually Nightcrawler who gave him a good advice instead. But I can't remember any story where it was explored is there or not the difference in treatment between normal looking white heterosexual mutants and mutants who are also a minority.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm not familiar with Sunspot's history, so I don't know if he was ever again mistreated for being black, apart from that original story? Because, I can't remember any story where mutants were hated and mistreated more because they were black or gay or part of some other minority group. I think all mutants are hated equally, even if they are white and rich like Angel or Emma Frost - they are still hated and treated like monsters. And I think that even if Sunspot was originally drawn as he currently is, it wouldn't have changed his origin story - he still would be a biracial guy with skin much darker than that of his predominantly white peers.

Generation X issue 39. The final 3 panels saw SYNCH get a beatdown from racists. One of them even called him a BOY. They beat him into a coma.

Mind you this is AFTER the rest went by those two earlier.

Writer was Larry Hama and artist Terry Dobson.

Sunspot was attacked for bring bi-racial and DARK skin.

That fight does not happen if he looked WHITE.


How many dead white mutatnts have we seen versus those of color? THose white oens like Jean seem to come back way more then the minority ones.

In fact where is Synch????? Next to the kid from Dakota named Virgl O Hawkins and the kid who would be Cap America-Eli Bradley-Synch's name comes up more in black characters missed by fans.

Why is this fan favorite MIA?

[Kingdom X]

You should read the whole quote.To me, he's saying he doesn't want to go there because he doesn't want to portray Brazil as a country of racists. I don't see how he could have crammed it in and actually done a proper explanation of it.Realistically? Most people don't know the difference. You need a clearly and accurately defined concept of what a Korean person looks like to be able to look at a Japanese person playing a Korean and immediately know the difference. It's easier to notice if they try to speak Korean and do it with a bad accent. Wait that requires you to know what Korean's supposed to sound like.It was a quote from the comic panel...
The problem with this thought process is that it requires you to have an accurate idea as to what a Plains Indian looks like. The stereotype is actually derived from people who spent their lives getting baked in the sun. what do they look like if they don't get baked in the sun? well... Blu Hunt is a good example.

She actually has darker skin than some of the ways Moonstar has been colored in the comics.

I went to high school with two Blackfoot. They didn't really look "white" but also didn't look "Hispanic". Josh and Tabitha kinda looked like they had a permanent tan but didn't have any other distinctive features. They had about the same shade of skin as Blu Hunt actually. Thing is they knew they were Blackfoot. They didn't really CARE in the sense of "respecting the traditions of their ancestors", but they knew who their ancestors were. Well, they lived in Arkansas for whatever reason and Blackfoot reservations are in Montana or Canada. Yeah, I don't really know why their parents moved to Arkansas.

I suppose that's a good point, but... what ethnicity were the people beating up Roberto?

I was talking about the specific way a specific artist drew him in a specific panel.

I did read the whole quote... if he has the time to include Magik’s connection to limbo and having Lockheed as a pet then he has time to properly portray Sunspot’s origin. Also I’m confused about your response to Asian actors because you were the one who pointed out that Dani’s actress isn’t Cheyenne.