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  1. #751
    Amazing Member killerbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Pslyocke wasnt influenced by Kwannon. Kwannon was a retcon added years later after Psylocke had already revamped. The psychic knife was Betsy's own original creation
    yes she was. betsy has admitted numerous times that kwannon was the cause for her intrest in asian themes as well as in cyclops. it got to the point that betsy blammed kwannons influence for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalPsyc View Post
    Nope. Kwannon has no such power. Her original powerset is only a weak empathy. Betsy developed the psyhic knife and psychic weaponry.
    Kwannon is pretty much a blank slate. It's such a waste Marvel gave her Psylocke's butterfly signature and psychic weaponry. Maybe because she's currently inhabiting Jamie's created-Psylocke body.
    tacky betsy did not have any psionic weaponary until AFTER she resided in kwannons more appealing body. kwannons deadly persona,warrior hardened body encouraged betsy to creatively come up with psionic weaponry for her assasinations.

  2. #752
    Amazing Member killerbee's Avatar
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    i really don't get why you psylocke fans are so desperate to have her keep the psychic weaponry. psylocke is no real warrior. her skills were stolen from someone else. kwannon even had to retrain betsys fragile and decript british body into being battle hardened enough to fight. i don't hate betsy i just think she needs to go back to her original abilities and rightful give kwannon hers.

  3. #753
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbee View Post
    i really don't get why you psylocke fans are so desperate to have her keep the psychic weaponry. psylocke is no real warrior. her skills were stolen from someone else. kwannon even had to retrain betsys fragile and decript british body into being battle hardened enough to fight. i don't hate betsy i just think she needs to go back to her original abilities and rightful give kwannon hers.


    u cant be angry when it comes to the whole white woman in Asian body yet still want betsy to keep the "cool" aspects of being Asian.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #754
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbee View Post
    tacky betsy did not have any psionic weaponary until AFTER she resided in kwannons more appealing body. kwannons deadly persona,warrior hardened body encouraged betsy to creatively come up with psionic weaponry for her assasinations.
    RESOURCEFUL Betsy gained psychic/psionic weaponry after being being trained and honed by the Hand and the Mandarin. NONE of those came from Kwannon. Kwannon didn't have enough psi skill to even begin to think of something like that. Sounds like she relied too much on that body-ody-ody and got no where. Whereas Betsy already had the skill and power to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by killerbee View Post
    i really don't get why you psylocke fans are so desperate to have her keep the psychic weaponry. psylocke is no real warrior. her skills were stolen from someone else. kwannon even had to retrain betsys fragile and decript british body into being battle hardened enough to fight. i don't hate betsy i just think she needs to go back to her original abilities and rightful give kwannon hers.
    Kwannon's original abilities are literally ninja skills and low level empathy. That's it. No knives. No tk or tp weapons. Just those. And really one is learned through rigorous training that anyone could potentially achieve, and the other was something she was born with but BARELY used. Show me a panel or scene where prior to her falling off that cliff and being fused with Betsy that she used any psi weapons and I'll gladly agree with your position. But it doesn't exist, does it?

    Kwannon is a blank slate that was created by a writer/editor who didn't bother to read/understand the source material. She has nearly no background to draw from other than flashbacks, and the small moments when she was in the Caucasian body. I get the whole white women in an Asian body and a LOT of the casual yellow face that writers threw in over the years, but psi weapons has no basis given what's been printed.

  5. #755
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post


    u cant be angry when it comes to the whole white woman in Asian body yet still want betsy to keep the "cool" aspects of being Asian.
    so wait...only Asians can be ninjas? only Asians can have fighting skills? Wheres your logic coming from? This a comic book character that has trained and had fighting skill for 15 yrs. They're not gonna just lose it because they're in a new body. Black Widow, Elektra, etc are all great hand to hand fighters. Kwannon doesn't own those skills. Kwannon didn't develop them and hone them.

    Also you all totally leave out the part where Kwannon is a retcon and came later.

  6. #756
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    How is a psychic knife an asian thing? wtf

  7. #757
    Mighty Member Psyknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    so wait...only Asians can be ninjas? only Asians can have fighting skills? Wheres your logic coming from? This a comic book character that has trained and had fighting skill for 15 yrs. They're not gonna just lose it because they're in a new body. Black Widow, Elektra, etc are all great hand to hand fighters. Kwannon doesn't own those skills. Kwannon didn't develop them and hone them.

    Also you all totally leave out the part where Kwannon is a retcon and came later.
    Well technically Kwannon did develop and hone her hand to hand skills, just mostly off panel and in our imaginations. I agree with everything else.

    Fascinating debate you guys!

  8. #758
    Mighty Member Psyknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Today new pic behind scene apocalypse
    Seeing pics of Munn as Psylocke makes me sad they didn’t do more with her, but then i’m like, eh i’m sure it would have been dissappointing anyway. Her not being in Dark Phoenix was probably a blessing, but I would’ve loved to have seen her in a Deadpool movie or something. Oh well, we’ll eventually get another cinematic Psylocke.

  9. #759
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    if the psychic blade that was never really hers to begin with is the biggest influence you think Kwannon brings why are you even a fan of her?

    Kwannon is a blank slate. They can literally do anything with her. But they are relying on everything Psylocke is known for and if you can't see that than your ignoring years of Psylocke developments and traits.

    This is the biggest mistake X-ediotiral is doing by not properly differentiating them better.
    By all story accounts Kwannon is the stuff that Psylocke is known for primarily Asian Ninja. Betsy on the other hand is a British Model, Telepath,Telekinetic, Secret Agent, Exile member, Sister of Captain Britain and long time member of the X-men with at least 2 unique costumes. The problem is not with Kwannon her identity is a former Hand Ninja. The problem is with Besty who has million other things she can because she carries all of the character history AND fans still want her to be the Ninja and wear similar costumes to what she wore when she was in Asian.

    Kwannon is not one who needs to change, Kwannon is the bikini wearing Asian martial arts Ninja that is her identity. And yeah that is Pyslocke identity because Psylocke was wearing Kwannon body. Betsy is one that has to change I am not saying that she loses her ability to fight or PsyKnives but Betsy needs to go a clear different route and she has the character history to do so. Basically more along of this

    Capture1.jpg

    and less of this

    Capture.jpg

    and any chance I get show this artwork I will.Something like this could work


  10. #760
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    so wait...only Asians can be ninjas? only Asians can have fighting skills? Wheres your logic coming from? This a comic book character that has trained and had fighting skill for 15 yrs. They're not gonna just lose it because they're in a new body. Black Widow, Elektra, etc are all great hand to hand fighters. Kwannon doesn't own those skills. Kwannon didn't develop them and hone them.

    Also you all totally leave out the part where Kwannon is a retcon and came later.
    well of course not only Asians can be ninja but considering in the context of psylockeher mind was transplanted into the body of a Japanese ninja and ninjas originated out of Japan then yes in this case those attributes are associated with that of being Asian or more specifically Japanese. Furthermore, Betsy before walking through the siege perilous was a white woman who had minimal combat skills which is why she wore armor. Betsy fought inside the body of a character who possessed the skills you know want her to possess in her original body. being able to move and bend at the level kwannon was able to do is something that would require training her body even if she retained the knowledge. and no one said Kwannon own the skills that other characters possess but the ones that you want betsy to possess those are skills owned by kwannon and unique to her heritage and life experience. I like how uncanny handled it. they gave her skills and fighting style with weapons traditional to her cultural upbringing. it makes her distinct and unique from kwannon while removing the issue those had with cultural appropriation.

    [
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #761
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    Even after the body changing, Betsy has already trained and honed her skills with many skillful fighters such as Wolverine, AOA Sabertooth and AU Ogun (this one was in pocket dimension worth years of training).
    She has earned her fighting abilities. Also, except for the knife the psychic weaponry came years after the body alteration.

    Ninja skills - at first yes, she got it from Kwannon's body. But she's earned her skills from years of training.
    Psychic weaponry - this is pure Betsy's skill dan training. Kwannon had no power nor skill to do it in her original body.
    Butterfly Aura: We all know this is Betsy's signature since the beginning. Seeing Kwannon has the butterfly aura is cringeworthy.

    Psylocke should always be the Psylocke we've known for all these years no matter what skin/body she's in.
    Kwannon.. should be something else.

  12. #762
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalPsyc View Post
    Kwannon.. should be something else.
    Other than The Hand trained Asian Ninja ??

    It is almost as if you guys are saying if Psylocke is not a ninja/action based character she is nothing. She bring nothing else to table other Ninja/Fighter. I hope people see the irony in that defining trait of Psylocke is from being Asian and Kwannon fighting abilities. I get thought process of what people are saying but that exactly why Besty has to change she has so many interesting about the character AND she is a fighter now. If Psylocke is not Psylocke with about fighting abilities the character is hugely flawed.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 06-18-2019 at 12:11 AM.

  13. #763
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    Psylocke has done the absolute bare minimum of h2h combat since her return back to her OG body and I don't think anyone in this thread has felt any less of her. As a matter of fact, most of the folks who come in here swearing that many Psylocke fans are holding onto the combat aspect of her character don't even frequent the thread much. If anything everyone has just been asking for ACTUAL development to get into her headspace post change. They want to see her with her brother in London in a new version of Excalibur. They want her to actually interact with Kwannon to make peace.

    People are open and excited for the changes. If she fights, cool. If she doesn't, she's still a cool and complex badass psychic with plenty of story to be told. Y'all truly don't have to bring up Kwannon because as a few have said, she's no longer apart of Betsy and she should move away from it. Just like Kwannon needs to move away from Betsy and develop an actual personality/storyline/reason for existing.
    Last edited by Psycwave; 06-18-2019 at 07:49 AM.

  14. #764
    Fantastic Member PsychicScion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    Psylocke has done the absolute bare minimum of h2h combat since her return back to her OG body and I don't think anyone in this thread has felt any less of her. As a matter of fact, most of the folks who come in here swearing that many Psylocke fans are holding onto the comat aspect of her character don't even frequent the thread much. If anything everyone has just been asking for ACTUAL development to get into her headspace post change. They want to see her with her brother in London in a new version of Excalibur. They want her to actually interact with Kwannon to make peace.

    People are open and excited for the changes. If she fights, cool. If she doesn't, she's still a cool and complex badass psychic with plenty of story to be told. Y'all truly don't have to bring up Kwannon because as a few have said, she's no longer apart of Betsy and she should move away from it. Just like Kwannon needs to move away from Betsy and develop an actual personality/storyline/reason for existing.
    Yep - exactly - loving the current Elizabeth - I would like to see the Precog flashes return too

    Still no mention of her in upcoming Hickman? Excalibur has been coming up alot so I am betting a relaunch so would love to see her pop up there to interact with Brian & Jamie.

  15. #765
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerbee View Post
    yes she was. betsy has admitted numerous times that kwannon was the cause for her intrest in asian themes as well as in cyclops. it got to the point that betsy blammed kwannons influence for everything.



    tacky betsy did not have any psionic weaponary until AFTER she resided in kwannons more appealing body. kwannons deadly persona,warrior hardened body encouraged betsy to creatively come up with psionic weaponry for her assasinations.
    RETCON. What about that dont you get?

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