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  1. #1621
    Fantastic Member Selene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    I don't think he's making the actions not the ones Betsy wanted to make though. Just that Kwannon was there and could see it all. She probably doesn't agree with everything that was done using her face but couldn't do anything about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    That's kind of pushing it though, no? Saying that everything Betsy did was Kwannon's influence isnt really realistic to me. She was her own person in that body. Especially with the big stories that you brought up.

    I can see the minimal influece like the Scott thing. But for the big impactful stories like Psi War and Dark Angel. I hope that's a big no to the writer.
    Do I disagree with that? This is how I interpret what he says in conjunction with his intending to write something that will not be easy to stomach by everyone.

    We'll know for sure later this week.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Nothing in the above message suggests that.
    Read it again by all means.

    We get that you wanted Betsy to stay Asian. But it was stupid and racially toxic to do and its been reversed. Were moving on.
    You're mistaken. I simply wanted continuity for my favourite character, even if she can't be in the form I got to know her; and reverse is quite the understatement if we are to accept a Betsy Braddock without code-name, butterfly signature, Hand training and, supposedly, free will now.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Read it again by all means.
    I did. Nothing suggests that. That is purely your personal extrapolation. I am not obligated to find it factual or legitimate.

    reverse is quite the understatement if we are to accept a Betsy Braddock without code-name, butterfly signature, Hand training and, supposedly, free will now.
    - Betsy has a codename: Captain Britain
    - Betsy has a new animal psi-signature
    - Betsy has not been stripped of her skills
    - Betsy has not been stripped of her free will

  3. #1623
    Mighty Member Jbenito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    IIRC Remender wanted to make her an Avenger and got overruled.
    Just had a mental image of Betsy saying, " F*** the Avengers! " while talking to Storm in UXF vol 3. Anyone got a scan of that??
    For the children, the wardrobe, and which one of these is a mimosa tree? Krakoa forever!

  4. #1624
    Fantastic Member Selene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    - Betsy has a codename: Captain Britain
    I'm talking about Psylocke which has now passed to a character that owes her existence to a retcon; I didn't find it necessary to clarify.
    - Betsy has a new animal psi-signature
    See above.
    - Betsy has not been stripped of her skills
    Which have rarely been seen on page since the change.
    - Betsy has not been stripped of her free will
    Again, that is to say, *if* they go down the road of explaining that Kwannon had had a say in Betsy's actions in the last decades.

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Which have rarely been seen on page since the change.
    Neither has Betsy.

    Again, that is to say, *if* they go down the road of explaining that Kwannon had had a say in Betsy's actions in the last decades.
    They have not done that and there is no evidence to suggest it. So why keep insisting there is?

  6. #1626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont like it but it wont be a disaster. She's had some stints where she didnt use it anyway and was fine
    its a bit of a disaster for betsy. the butterfly was her signature, its what set her apart from all the other telepaths, and the time she didnt use it was very very brief during when she couldnt use her telepathy. kwannon however has only ever been defined by betsy's power, and while she influenced betsy to create the psi knife, we never really saw her growth or her journey with her powers. kwannon should also be going through this new rediscovery since when she hadnt been intertwined with betsy she only was an empath, but i feel the staples of what made betsy should remain with her. betsy should get the butterfly, kwannon the psi-knife. if i could go further id give betsy the telepathy and kwannon the telekinesis to separate them even further

  7. #1627
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnap22 View Post
    If he’s going to just be like “Kwannon was inside there all this time” I think that’s kind of bull.. unless Jamie did that to mind fuck Betsy eventually.. I can’t really see Jamie recreating That body and bring Betsy back to life to have a piece or all of Kwannon floating on the back burner. I think he doesn’t have the whole history of both these characters. He’s ignoring what he wants. Fine if you can create a decent and believable story from it and make people say “that makes sense. I buy that”
    Agreed
    This whole thing about current Kwannon has been a disaster tbh. They just want milk the Psylocke brand and build Kwannon from it (including Bety's pre bodyswap/shopp Butterfly aura).
    Kwannon isn't even in her own body. Jamie created that body for Betsy. There's no way Kwannon's soul attached to it and "has been watching it from a window".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited on Betsy's new journey. But when they took away aspects from her core character (eg. butterfly effect), and actions that were hers become questionables (suggesting it has some influence from Kwannon); it made me questions whether they exactly know what they're doing.

    I'm really hoping they'll build Kwannon's own identity soon (maybe start from Revanche, which was her own choice) and let Betsy embraced her past wholly (both her Brit and ninja days--> she's a friggin warrior). Betsy is always been the butterfly, always evolving. She surely can pet several (real, psychic, fantasy) animals like the Bear (UXF II), Bone Dragon (UXF I) or even the Kyubi (Excalibur). But the Butterfly.. is always been Betsy.
    Last edited by MetalPsyc; 11-12-2019 at 01:05 AM.

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalPsyc View Post
    Agreed
    This whole thing about current Kwannon has been a disaster tbh. They just want milk the Psylocke brand and build Kwannon from it (including Bety's pre bodyswap/shopp Butterfly aura).
    Kwannon isn't even in her own body. Jamie created that body for Betsy. There's no way Kwannon's soul attached to it and "has been watching it from a window".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited on Betsy's new journey. But when they took away aspects from her core character (eg. butterfly effect), and actions that were hers become questionables (suggesting it has some influence from Kwannon); it made me questions whether they exactly know what they're doing.

    I'm really hoping they'll build Kwannon's own identity soon (maybe start from Revanche, which was her own choice) and let Betsy embraced her past wholly (both her Brit and ninja days--> she's a friggin warrior). Betsy is always been the butterfly, always evolving. She surely can pet several (real, psychic, fantasy) animals like the Bear (UXF II), Bone Dragon (UXF I) or even the Kyubi (Excalibur). But the Butterfly.. is always been Betsy.
    I've been saying this ever since I've first seen the change. The butterfly aura, the psychic knife and even the damned Jim Lee bathing suit! Like, I'd get the first two, but the bathing suit is what tells me they just wanna wanna have their sexy asian ninja but politically correct cake and eat it too. People praise it and I get it - we need more high-profile asian superheroes in comics that aren't sent off into one book (*cough Agents of Atlas cough*) but this is not the right way. Stop being lazy and develop Kwannon as her own character. Give her a different aura, unique to her.

  9. #1629
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    If you guys are really focusing on the butterfly thing.You're really gonna dislike Fallen Angels #1.
    New Mutants [01] : Reveiw and Spoilers https://youtu.be/VFGvoMLl3zU

    Excalibur [01] : Review and Spoilers https://youtu.be/-p64QHBVO_c

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  10. #1630
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psionic View Post
    its a bit of a disaster for betsy. the butterfly was her signature, its what set her apart from all the other telepaths, and the time she didnt use it was very very brief during when she couldnt use her telepathy. kwannon however has only ever been defined by betsy's power, and while she influenced betsy to create the psi knife, we never really saw her growth or her journey with her powers. kwannon should also be going through this new rediscovery since when she hadnt been intertwined with betsy she only was an empath, but i feel the staples of what made betsy should remain with her. betsy should get the butterfly, kwannon the psi-knife. if i could go further id give betsy the telepathy and kwannon the telekinesis to separate them even further
    Not really. I was talking about her return from the dead under Claremont. She wasnt using the butterfly for a couple of years until the Fraction run. Its her signature and she should keep it but I think the change to Captain Britain and dropping the Psylocke moniker is more damaging than losing the butterfly IMO.

  11. #1631
    Fantastic Member seccruz's Avatar
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    She was a telekinetic then. No butterfly signature. In Remender's X-Force she had it. On X-men, she had it. On Madripoor, when she rebuilt her body from nothing, she had it. Giving Kwannon her powerset, name and power signature is a cash grab for Marvel. Banking on Asian fetische Psylocke to sell them books.
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  12. #1632
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    Or they could just have Kwannon boldly sacrifice herself at the end as a show that she'd changed and all of that or something along those lines...also wonder what they'll do when Betsy's time as Captain Britain is over, as I don't expect it to last very long...sometimes the cure is worse than the problem...

  13. #1633
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Why the heck would Kwannon commit suicide?

  14. #1634
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    It wouldn't be suicide, more like someone would have to stay behind and make sure a baddie stayed dead or a portal stayed closed or something along those lines, but doing so would mean giving her life to do it, the act would cost Kwannon her life, so it wouldn't be a suicide as other X-Men have done similar things...

  15. #1635
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    I like that the Betsy thread has just become a “let’s all shit on Kwannon” thread while people are sharing their love and appreciation on the Kwannon thread, which is what I thought these threads were supposed to be about. Anyway Kwannon lives in some of yall heads rent-free (Betsy just groaned somewhere on Krakoa).

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Or they could just have Kwannon boldly sacrifice herself at the end as a show that she'd changed and all of that or something along those lines...also wonder what they'll do when Betsy's time as Captain Britain is over, as I don't expect it to last very long...sometimes the cure is worse than the problem...
    Then the Five can just resurrect her and she can enjoy life again with all that lovely change.

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