Young Avengers appreciation 2019

[Anduinel]

Death's Head was not my jam.
Liked:
The Captions. "son of a witch" actually made me chuckle.
Billy's identity issues, specific to the Avenger mantle.

DISliked:
Teddy nerfed. Repeatedly. This guy has gotten REALLY creative with his shifting lately and here he is using bar stools and mattresses?
Billy asking Teddy to essentially stay out of the way because he needs to concentrate? This guy eats bullets and spits 'em out but....sure.
Billy's super accessorized edge lord aesthetic & those ridiculous stiletto nails.


Curious about:
Billy's angst over Tommy
Twitter proposed that perhaps this story isn't in the 616 Universe. I'm getting hairline fractures in my fingers from crossing them as hard as I am.

They're discussing that possibility over on Tumblr too. Interesting discussion overall, but just gonna c&p some of the evidence points:

I am like… 90% sure the Billy and Teddy we are seeing in Death’s Head

are not the 616 Billy and Teddy.

Why?

- costume discrepancies (Teddy’s being a combo of v1 + V2, Billy’s being a Hot Topic ver of v1)

- they live in a small, rented apartment with a supervisor, not their beautiful huge one that was a gift from Roberto (therefore they own, so can have any pets they please)

- Yondu specifically mentioned an interdimensional vacuum when dismissing Death’s Head. Also am given to believe that multiverse hopping is kind of Death’s Head thing (given his backstory is that he is a Deception… who was shrunk to human size… by the Doctor. Because Marvel UK be that way!)

- when Billy is looking through other dimensions, we see him and Teddy chilling with Squirrel Girl, as in New Avengers. However, Billy’s yearning and reaction implies that this was not HIM, same as it’s not him with Death’s Head, Kamala, Armoured Eli or the others in that spread. He wants that life, of being a hero and recognised Avenger - he’s never really experienced it. Unlike 616 Billy, who (albeit briefly) led the New Avengers.

- Billy mentions not having America’s number. America texted Billy and Teddy during Civil War II to go cheer up Kate when Clint was suspected of murder. America is the only America Chavez, and she is friends with 616 Billy and Teddy. Same as Kate would 100% answer any call from Billy and Teddy. In V2 she knew Billy was in danger due to him taking too long to message her!

- 616 Billy knows the harm that comes from using “All Possible Worlds” as a spell.

- speaking of: we saw in New Avengers that Billy is getting really good at silent casting. This Billy needed silence to concentrate on his spoken spells.

In conclusion: I think this is a parallel Billy and Teddy, with Billy longing for the life 616!Billy is leading, and making mistakes as he tries to gain a life that isn’t his through bad means. (“How do I get to this reality?” ie, 616). Whatever fight he’s had with Eli, Kate, and Tommy, is due to Parallel World Bads, not a sudden and awful degradation of their friendships.

It's an interesting idea, but I guess my primary question would be "What's the point in such a short book?" But yeah, it could be some kind of lead in to Strike Force.

[Fokken]

I love you Anduinel. Thank you for sharing!!!

[Digifiend]

They're discussing that possibility over on Tumblr too. Interesting discussion overall, but just gonna c&p some of the evidence points:

Armored Eli? If it's this spread, then sorry, but that was Rayshaun. Several of the futures seem to show a merged YA/Champions - a very real possibility now that Zub's Champions has bitten the dust.

[Magmaster12]

Really you're nitpicking continuity so it must be an alternate universe, come on guys.

[Raye]

But to be fair, Billy is one character where 'it's actually an alt universe' that somehow resolves into the current one could have traction, his powers could totally make that work.

That being said, while it is a possibility, and there certainly are discrepancies, it's also just possible it's writer/artist not doing their research completely. I think some of the evidence is tenuous, and we'll have to give it another issue or two before calling it an alt universe. It is possible, though, for sure. I think the biggest point in favor of the idea is the panel of what looks to be the Young Avengers lineup from Gillen's run in the page before the one posted, in the upper right. It is one of the very few panels that does not include Death's Head, and it's like, exactly the YA lineup, which would make it weird to include in a spread of alt realities. the panel the person quoted mentioned with the New Avengers isn't the evidence they say it is, because Death's Head is there as well, it's not just Billy and Teddy chilling with Squirrel Girl, it's them WITH Death's Head, which never happened in the main continuity. The panel of the Young Avengers though DID happen in the main continuity, unless you count Noh-Varr's miscoloured costume making it an alt reality.

[Drops Of Venus]

Armored Eli? If it's this spread, then sorry, but that was Rayshaun. Several of the futures seem to show a merged YA/Champions - a very real possibility now that Zub's Champions has bitten the dust.

I find it interesting that in this entire page, the ONLY panels in which we don't see Death's Head are the ones at the bottom with a pink/purple-haired person. It seems so disconnected from the other realities, specially when you consider we also don't see Billy and Teddy, just that one person. I wonder if that has some kind of meaning to this story.

But to be fair, Billy is one character where 'it's actually an alt universe' that somehow resolves into the current one could have traction, his powers could totally make that work.

That being said, while it is a possibility, and there certainly are discrepancies, it's also just possible it's writer/artist not doing their research completely. I think some of the evidence is tenuous, and we'll have to give it another issue or two before calling it an alt universe. It is possible, though, for sure. I think the biggest point in favor of the idea is the panel of what looks to be the Young Avengers lineup from Gillen's run in the page before the one posted, in the upper right. It is one of the very few panels that does not include Death's Head, and it's like, exactly the YA lineup, which would make it weird to include in a spread of alt realities. the panel the person quoted mentioned with the New Avengers isn't the evidence they say it is, because Death's Head is there as well, it's not just Billy and Teddy chilling with Squirrel Girl, it's them WITH Death's Head, which never happened in the main continuity. The panel of the Young Avengers though DID happen in the main continuity, unless you count Noh-Varr's miscoloured costume making it an alt reality.

Yeah, I think people are being too quick to jump to the AU excuse just because there are some things that we don't understand yet, but it's just the first issue and there's obviously a bigger mystery that's gonna unravel in later issues. I think a lot of the things people are pointing out could easily be explained off-panel. Character designs? They could've just changed clothes for whatever reason. Kate not calling them back? Maybe she's busy with something. Billy not having America's number? Maybe she changed hers. Billy not talking to Tommy? Maybe hey had a fight or something. A seemingly different apartment? Maybe they moved or they're staying on someone else's home for whatever reason (I do hope we still get to see the apartment Roberto gave them though, 'cause I really liked it). None of those things are so extreme to the point where it couldn't possibly be explained in the 616 universe. I'll admit that Yondu flushing DH through an ''interdimensional chute'' is a good point, though. That IS something that could explain DH landing on a different universe.

As for the Young Avengers panel you mentioned, I was under the impression that was supposed to be Tommy and not Noh-Varr because of the mostly green costume. But Tommy WAS on Gillen's run anyway, even if only briefly, so your point still stands either way. All I know is that one of those two really needs a radical redesign, 'cause both having white hair and green in their color scheme gets really confusing.

[Raye]

I thought it was Tommy at first but on closer inspection i realized the lines of the costume match Noh-Varr, not Tommy. I think the colourist thought it was Tommy, and coloured it to match as close as they could, but it was intended to be Noh-Varr. Though as you say, it could actually work either way. But yes, one needs a costume change, especially if they use them in the same lineup cus having the same colour scheme and both with white hair is way confusing.

And yes, I presume purple haired lady will come into play, it's a totally random inclusion if she doesn't. No telling how at the moment, though.

and the Yondu thing... like on the one hand yes, a direct mention of the multiverse is certainly suspicious. On the other hand, what was shown there doesn't actually match Yondu's current status quo in the main universe. At the moment, he's got a new band of Ravagers with Sera, among others, and they are basically a roaming band of mercenaries, based on their most recent appearance before this, in Asgardians of the Galaxy. Which could actually point to the beginning sequence being the alternate universe. buuuut... this could again be chalked up to lack of research.

I am going to give it another issue before i make the call on which is intended to be the alternate universe. (besides the universe which the other Death's Head came from, that one is clearly an alt universe no matter which way it goes for Billy and Teddy, or the older Death's Head)

[Woozie]

That purple haired woman is toni ho

[Journey]

Maybe without flowing income they had to downgrade to a different apartment! Or it's being renovated!!.......

Nah that's stupid I don't understand why Billy couldn't just magic up a fortune if he wanted too. Maybe it's the same apartment but the artist didn't really pay attention to the design of it an older works. I think this is 616 Billy and Teddy. I swear Billy was probably just feeling nostalgic and wanted them to wear old costumes. Also I really want to know what went down between him and Tommy! Like am I the only one who thinks Tini wrote that scene in a way where it comes off as them having beef?

[Beetle]

Yondu is showing up in Future Foundation without Sera or the Ravagers, so that's not proof either

[Digifiend]

That purple haired woman is toni ho

If that's the intent, they should've shown her with a US flag on her top, and glasses. I actually thought it looked like a civilian garbed Songbird (another one of their New Avengers teammates, remember).

[scourge]

That purple haired woman is toni ho

Its more likely that the purple haired woman is Dr. Evelyn Necker. And she's probably the main villain of the series.

I'd hope this isn't 616 because the writer got a bit too much wrong in the name of making things crappy for Billy if it is.

[Drops Of Venus]

That purple haired woman is toni ho

That was my first thought as well. The clothes look like some of the stuff she's worn, but she also doesn't look very asian to me, which is something I'd think an asian artist would probably get right.

Also I really want to know what went down between him and Tommy! Like am I the only one who thinks Tini wrote that scene in a way where it comes off as them having beef?

You're definitely not the only one.

Its more likely that the purple haired woman is Dr. Evelyn Necker. And she's probably the main villain of the series.

Just looked her up and yeah, it makes a lot of sense given her history with DH. I also remember reading her name in one of the solicits that came out.

Also, interesting thing I found out while researching her: she exists on Earth-8410 with purple-ish hair, and on Earth-616 with red hair. The 8410 version of the character is the ''original'' one that comes from DH's universe, while the 616 version doesn't have much to do with him at all. If they're using the 8410 version of the character, which seems the most likely, then that's another sign that there are some AU elements involved in this.

[Wiccan]

But the pink version is there as one of the AUs. So if anything that would be a point to this being 616, not the opposite.

[Drops Of Venus]

But the pink version is there as one of the AUs. So if anything that would be a point to this being 616, not the opposite.

I would think that too if that was just a random panel, but I actually think it'll play a part on the story of this book. Evelyn Necker was mentioned in the solicits of issues 3 and 4, and it's even suggested that she was the one who created the Death's Head that was under the bed. So if she will show up and if they're using that particular version of the character, then that would mean that either Billy and Teddy are gonna hop to a different universe OR they've been in a different universe all along.

Another possibility is that maybe Tini is just making the 616 version of the character more similar to the 8410 version, so all of the events still take place in the 616 continuity.