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  1. #1261
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Why was the babies' surname Maximoff anyway? Usually kids take the father's name, so you'd expect it to be Vision.

    As for the casting name Adam, the only thing I can think of is that it's a joke related to Power Rangers, since Adam, Billy and Tommy are all names of MMPRs.
    Well, Vision isn't a surname. It was used like that to the family he created just cause there wasn't anything else I guess.

  2. #1262
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I imagine that in the MCU they'll really just be Wanda and Vision's children, no reincarnation or other families involved. They'll become Wiccan and Speed, but they'll be Billy and Tommy Maximoff rather than Kaplan/Shepherd. I don't think that makes them OCs, as long as their personalities, powers, appearances and relationships with the other YA are faithful to the comics.
    I guess that's my fear: because these are not Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd, they will feel they have more creative liberty to deviate from the YA characters and do their own thing. I hope they keep the core of what makes them who they are, but they've already radically changed so many characters in the MCU, so yeah, I fear.

    And while it doesn't make a difference for Tommy because his backstory is so scarce, I would definitely miss the Kaplan family if they didn't exist in the MCU. He could exist without them in that universe and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as far as adaptions go, but if I had my way, they would be there and they would still be the adorable, loving, healthy, functional and absolutely normal jewish family for him. And I like to think that if Allan Heinberg ever gets involved with the YA in the MCU, he would fight to keep that part of Billy there too, 'cause I'm assuming that would be important to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I always thought Tommy and Kate had potential but it never went anywhere cause he always gets the short end.
    YES! I'm still a Kammy shipper through and through. And honestly, I believe Heinberg did see them as endgame material, judging by his pairing choices on that special issue of Children's Crusade which showed us the (not so) Young Avengers in the future. Tommy and Kate were even expecting a baby, IIRC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticomat View Post
    I mean, it's sad that Billy's family gets erased (and probably his Jewishness as well, since it came from his birth parents, and that's what sucks the most for me), but honestly, their backstory is waaaay too complicated for the MCU. I mean, even in the comics we don't have strict details about how they exist or what they actually are beyond knowing that they were born as reincarnations of Thomas and William to two different families. But we don't know if they were born the same day (Since Billy is sixteen, but Tommy says he's fifteen on Children's Crusade), or if they're genetically related to their birth parents or are little clones of Thomas and William, or even anything about Tommy's past at all beyond the fact that he met Coat-of-Arms in that weird and awful Juvie place that experimented on teens with powers. We don't know if he was raised by his parents or abandoned (Which could make it so that he doesn't know his own birthday, which could explain him thinking he's 15), or anything, really. I want more of Tommy's background, but he's never used for anything really after Children's Crusade, beyond his Cameo on Young Avengers vol. 2. So yeah, between too many unanswered questions, and a lack of backstory in Tommy's case, I'd really rather they simplify things for TV and Film.
    I agree that their comics origin is too complicated and we won't see a faithful adaption of that in the MCU, BUT I do think there are alternatives that could lead us to something closer to Wiccan and Speed from the comics in the MCU. Keep in mind that WandaVision will tie-in with Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness, which might shake things up in the MCU as far as the multiverse (it's in the damn title) goes. That, coupled with Wanda's reality warping powers could lead to a scenario in which she loses her kids, realities get merged or whatever and we end up with a different version of them in the following MCU timeline. Wanda having kids is an iconic story, yes, but I'd argue that Wanda losing her kids and all the implications derived from that trauma is just as iconic, and they might wanna tell a story that reflects that too. Love it or hate it, there's a reason why those House Of M panels were all over the wall of the executive producer of WandaVision while she was talking about the show...
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 11-19-2019 at 11:20 AM.

  3. #1263
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Well, Vision isn't a surname. It was used like that to the family he created just cause there wasn't anything else I guess.
    Vision has used the alias Victor Shade, but I don't think he's used it in years.

    It makes sense to choose to go with the Maximoff name instead, there's an actual family history behind it.

  4. #1264
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    Legacy, his brother's original name, would be the best name for him.




    Hopefully not coming back outside of the off guest appearance. There are now other characters that can do the same job without the problematic stereotyping and drugs message.
    You do know that Marvel is littered with bad history characters right? Naw Eli has every right to be in this team including lead it. Is cause he is a you black male that out of hundreds of imperfect heroes, he's the one that somehow can't be redeemed to a point where he can reflect the strength and integrity of his legacy namesake hero Captain America?

  5. #1265
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Here's the thing about Eli: at this point there's probably only going to be one character wearing American iconography on average at any given moment. Now, there's at least one character who is more popular among fans and writers that will probably get the spot unless it's, say, Alan Heinberg.

    Also whatever happened to the rights situation with him?

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  6. #1266
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Resolved, apparently, as both Isaiah and Eli have shown up recently.

  7. #1267
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Here's the thing about Eli: at this point there's probably only going to be one character wearing American iconography on average at any given moment. Now, there's at least one character who is more popular among fans and writers that will probably get the spot unless it's, say, Alan Heinberg.
    Well, Eli was used for 7 consecutive years of publication alongside Captain America (both Steve and Bucky) and that was never an issue. As a matter of fact, we know Marvel only stopped using him because of legal stuff. If it wasn't for that, I reckon he would've still been active in the MU after The Children's Crusade ended. And after he was gone, Marvel replaced him with not one, but two star-spangled heroes (America Chavez and Rayshaun Lucas), and both have been getting a push across Marvel media ever since. So I'd say there's definitely room for more than one hero within that particular legacy. Also, I wouldn't underestimate his popularity. I fully believe there are a lot of fans and writers who do care about him, but again, he couldn't be used during these last few years, so there was nothing that anyone could do about it. He was considered for the Black Panther movie when he was nowhere to be seen in the comics, and that's saying something about his potential. Now that he's been properly restored to the MU, I think it's only a matter of time until he's used again. I definitely think he'll be involved in whatever the Young Avengers are involved in the future.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 11-20-2019 at 12:07 AM.

  8. #1268
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    Eli also made it into the video games before any of the other Young Avengers and before America and the new Patriot

  9. #1269
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    So Marvel is really not gonna give us anything in February to celebrate the YA's 15th anniversary, huh?


  10. #1270
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    So Marvel is really not gonna give us anything in February to celebrate the YA's 15th anniversary, huh?

    Marvel: Young Avengers? I'm not sure what that is, is it that first book Kate Bishop showed up on?

  11. #1271
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Isn't it a bit premature to joke about that, what with all the rumors of a Young Avengers relaunch replacing Champions (not to mention what we've been hearing about the MCU)?

    I'm all for YA replacing Champions. It's not even a comparison between them. The former is a good book that's actually about superheroes, the latter is trash.

  12. #1272
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    At least Entertainment Weekly still remembers them. Volume 2 made it to their Best Comics Of The Decade list.

    Also, this made me think: if we really get that YA relaunch that BleedingCool reported (and curse them for getting my hopes up), this means that each YA volume will have come out at a different decade.

    Vol. 1: 2000s
    Vol. 2: 2010s
    Vol. 3: 2020s

    I'm already eagerly waiting for Vol. 4 when we reach the 2030s. LOL

  13. #1273
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    I was reading back, and I wondered what was the exact point Kate Bishop became a breakout character for the Young Avengers?

    She's easily the most popular and visible now, and the first to debut as a superhero in the MCU (Cassie technically debuted first, but only as a civilian). However, reading through the original Heinberg/Cheung run, she wasn't nearly as prominent someone might think. She definitely had a major arc and was visible throughout for sure... but only as much as the other members of the team. The focus was actually balanced out pretty well.

    Was it due to Fraction's run where she broke out?

    I really enjoyed Fraction's run, but it had a nasty side effect of trying to make Kate out as the "true" Hawkeye who's superior to Clint, and also kept Clint around as a satellite to Kate for a long time (example, West Coast Avengers had Kate leading the team Clint was originally led!).

    I know she was always a fan-favorite, and it helps that she actually had to earn being the new Hawkeye as opposed to many other legacy character who just get to be the new version straight up. I guess her following gave her a steady push until now.

  14. #1274
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I was reading back, and I wondered what was the exact point Kate Bishop became a breakout character for the Young Avengers?

    She's easily the most popular and visible now, and the first to debut as a superhero in the MCU (Cassie technically debuted first, but only as a civilian). However, reading through the original Heinberg/Cheung run, she wasn't nearly as prominent someone might think. She definitely had a major arc and was visible throughout for sure... but only as much as the other members of the team. The focus was actually balanced out pretty well.

    Was it due to Fraction's run where she broke out?

    I really enjoyed Fraction's run, but it had a nasty side effect of trying to make Kate out as the "true" Hawkeye who's superior to Clint, and also kept Clint around as a satellite to Kate for a long time (example, West Coast Avengers had Kate leading the team Clint was originally led!).

    I know she was always a fan-favorite, and it helps that she actually had to earn being the new Hawkeye as opposed to many other legacy character who just get to be the new version straight up. I guess her following gave her a steady push until now.
    You can definitely trace her mainstream popularity to Fraction's Hawkeye. That book was the definition of a cult classic, and both Kate and Clint came out of it absolutely changed as characters. Everything Marvel has done with the characters ever since feels like a post-Fraction world, and the Hawkeye show on Disney+ taking inspiration from it is just the cherry on top. Not that Kate couldn't be popular with just her Young Avengers history, but Hawkeye definitely gave her a boost.

    And yeah, some people have issues with some of the characterizations that derived from that run, but I also think a lot of people had their Hawkeye starting point with that particular book, specially since it came out in the same year as the first Avengers movie, so people took it as a chance to get to know more about Clint, and ended up being introduced to Kate as well. For this group of new readers, I think it was a lot easier to accept and get used to Clint's and Kate's characterization ever since.

  15. #1275
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Isn't it a bit premature to joke about that, what with all the rumors of a Young Avengers relaunch replacing Champions (not to mention what we've been hearing about the MCU)?

    I'm all for YA replacing Champions. It's not even a comparison between them. The former is a good book that's actually about superheroes, the latter is trash.
    It's obvious that a new YA won't have Hulkling, there's clearly other plans for him. And Wiccan's already on the Strikeforce team.

    Even if BC is right, you're going to be disappointed. I actually think they're wrong - YA might happen, but if so, I don't think it's replacing Champions. The Incoming teaser promises a "titanic divide" for the Champs. Could be they split in two, one team keeps the Champions name, but a few members go off, maybe team up with Kate, Cassie, and America, and form a new YA - in other words, they both relaunch. Incoming's meant to be a launchpad for 2020's storylines.

    I've always believed there's room for both - DC had Titans and Teen Titans, and now Young Justice and Teen Titans, after all. If they can have two teen superhero teams, why can't Marvel?

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