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  1. #691
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    My guess for a YA team for the MCU based on the characters' ongoing popularity and presence in the comics, would be:
    Wiccan
    Hulkling
    Kate Bishop
    Ms Marvel
    Ironheart
    America Chavez
    Nova
    Comics prominence is irrelevant. Don't forget, Cassie's only had smaller roles in the comics recently (Wasp, Giant-Man) because Nadia, who is impossible to use in the MCU (due to the adult Hope already existing), gets the focus instead. And we KNOW Cassie will be used in future movies.
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  2. #692
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    On another note has anyone read the summaries for Deathshead? They kind of make it seem like Billy is an inconspicuous antagonist in the series. Not sure if it'll be an intentional thing cause IDK if DH is a villain or not but just going off the summaries it appears Billy and Teddy will be going at it with DH for at least 3 out of the 4 issues.

    I'm wondering if this series will lead into Strikeforce in someway especially because I don't think Billy as of the moment really fits the criteria of the theme they were promoting for that book.

  3. #693
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Y'all are triggering me with this Champions talk. I like the team, I really do, but I don't want them mixed up with the YA in the MCU. I think each team should be their own thing, much like in the comics. I could make an exception for maybe one or two characters (specially Viv; she's the one I'd be the most ok with joining the team), but at the end of the day, I wouldn't want an official union of both teams, specially with the bigger characters like Kamala and Miles who can headline their own franchises. I feel like they would take too much attention away from the actual Young Avengers from the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    I doubt we'd get Bradley.

    Rayshaun Lucas is the less letigious character, especially given I just cant see the MCU doing his grandfather's story.

    Frankly, it's all starting to sound a bit ramshackle and thrown together. Replacement characters make it sound more like a Champions movie. Which would be fine, but then call it that. It's a better name for a movie than Young Avengers woud be anyway.
    They don't need to erase Eli just because they don't wanna do his grandpa story. They can just use him without going too deep on his backstory, or changing it to a different one. Sure, I'd hate that, but it's better than not having him around at all.

    And I don't get the mindset that replacement characters sound more like a Champions movie than Young Avengers. I mean, if anything, it's the other way around. Young Avengers is the official derivative, legacy team, while Champions was all about kids trying to distance themselves from the Avengers legacy. Which is another reason why I don't think both teams should be merged in the MCU; it's like missing the point of why they both existed in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    There is no way they do an MCU YA without Cassie. 100% she will be there.
    Agreed. Honestly, I feel like Cassie is THE reason why the Young Avengers might've even be considered for the MCU in the first place. I'm sure Feige & co did their research on the character and probably saw potential in her being a legacy character going forward due to her YA history. If it was not her, then it'd probably be Kate who kickstarts the team in the MCU due to the Hawkeye TV show. It's ironic, when you think of it. Cassie and Kate were the last members to join the original YA roster in the comics, but it looks like they might just become the first ones in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    My thinking is that they had a chance to set that up and they didn't, which makes me think they're prioritising other characters.
    I do think there was a set up, it was just very subtle. We have Cassie watching her dad become a hero in Ant-Man, then Cassie explicitly showing a desire to be a hero when she grows ups in Ant-Man And The Wasp, and then Cassie a little more grown on Avengers: Endgame. She didn't do much in that last one, true, but that's because the movie had bigger priorities than her individual story. I'm sure we'll get more of her POV in Ant-Man 3. That's the movie with the biggest potential to actually set her up as an actual hero, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Comics prominence is irrelevant. Don't forget, Cassie's only had smaller roles in the comics recently (Wasp, Giant-Man) because Nadia, who is impossible to use in the MCU (due to the adult Hope already existing), gets the focus instead. And we KNOW Cassie will be used in future movies.
    Well, I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Cassie's not getting much attention now, but Young Avengers definitely increased her prominence in comics back in the day, which might've influenced the way she was portrayed in the movie. And the only reason why people even talk so much about Riri joining the MCU is definitely because her prominence in the comics. Toni Ho, who's also a diverse Iron Man legacy character created not too long ago, doesn't get half of the press and coverage Riri gets, for example. So I do think comics prominence does have some influence on MCU discussion, although it doesn't always come down to it, like when they chose Hope to be the Wasp in the MCU, a character that was pretty much a forgotten villain from an AU in the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    On another note has anyone read the summaries for Deathshead? They kind of make it seem like Billy is an inconspicuous antagonist in the series. Not sure if it'll be an intentional thing cause IDK if DH is a villain or not but just going off the summaries it appears Billy and Teddy will be going at it with DH for at least 3 out of the 4 issues.

    I'm wondering if this series will lead into Strikeforce in someway especially because I don't think Billy as of the moment really fits the criteria of the theme they were promoting for that book.
    It seems like Billy and Teddy are playing an antagonistic role in the very beginning of the series, as we saw them fighting Death's Head on those colorless preview pages. But I'm not sure if this is something that'll continue throughout the entire series, though. I actually got the impression that there is some sort of misunderstanding in the beggining and that's why they're fighting, and then later on they would try to help him, but would possibly only complicate things further. If anything, I'd say the cover for issue #3 suggests that Death's Head biggest enemy might be another version of himself, although covers can be deceiving.

    As for Strikeforce, it is possible that both series have a connection, since they're being written by the same writer. Strikeforce begins being published before Death's Head ends, though, so I'm not sure how big that connection might be, unless Billy is not in the first issue and whatever happens in the last issue of DH is what leads him to the team.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 07-15-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #694
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    They don't need to erase Eli just because they don't wanna do his grandpa story. They can just use him without going too deep on his backstory, or changing it to a different one. Sure, I'd hate that, but it's better than not having him around at all.

    And I don't get the mindset that replacement characters sound more like a Champions movie than Young Avengers. I mean, if anything, it's the other way around. Young Avengers is the official derivative, legacy team, while Champions was all about kids trying to distance themselves from the Avengers legacy. Which is another reason why I don't think both teams should be merged in the MCU; it's like missing the point of why they both existed in the first place.
    I wouldn't rule out the MCU doing that kind of combining/condensing to streamline things.

    I doubt we're going to get two different sets of teen hero teams in the MCU, at least close together of each other.

  5. #695
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wouldn't rule out the MCU doing that kind of combining/condensing to streamline things.

    I doubt we're going to get two different sets of teen hero teams in the MCU, at least close together of each other.
    That's the thing: they don't need to happen at the same time. YA and Champions are not a part of the same generation/era of teen heroes in the comics anyway, so there's no reason why they should co-exist in the MCU right away. Do the YA first and then after some years, when they're old enough to graduate to main Avengers or whatever, we can have the Champions. I feel like it's better this way, specially because I think some key members of the Champions (like Kamala and Miles) need more time to be introduced in the MCU, while most of the Young Avengers are pretty much ready to go.

  6. #696
    Spectacular Member Ibara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    My thinking is that they had a chance to set that up and they didn't, which makes me think they're prioritising other characters.
    Theres been enough setup: 1. idolizing her father(and Hope) and 2. aging her up (easily could have left her out of Endgame entirely).

    MCU Roster:
    Cassie (Antman legacy)
    Kate (Disney+ Hawkeye)
    Kamala
    Billy (Disney+ WandaVision)
    Teddy (Disney+ Nick Fury?)
    Patriot (Disney+ Falcon and Winter Soldier)
    Peter

    Later:
    Ironheart
    Nova
    Viv

  7. #697
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibara View Post
    Theres been enough setup: 1. idolizing her father(and Hope) and 2. aging her up (easily could have left her out of Endgame entirely).

    MCU Roster:
    Cassie (Antman legacy)
    Kate (Disney+ Hawkeye)
    Kamala
    Billy (Disney+ WandaVision)
    Teddy (Disney+ Nick Fury?)
    Patriot (Disney+ Falcon and Winter Soldier)
    Peter

    Later:
    Ironheart
    Nova
    Viv
    This sounds like a good roster but I highly doubt they’d put Peter Parker on the Young Avengers. His spot should go to speed.
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  8. #698
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    It does look like WandaVision will introduce the twins, so I don't think Wiccan would be on a team alone. The only reason Speed wouldn't also be there is if they merge the storyline with that of Tom King's Vision, and ditch the speedster in favour of Viv.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    That's the thing: they don't need to happen at the same time. YA and Champions are not a part of the same generation/era of teen heroes in the comics anyway,
    They weren't published at the same time - though I see no reason why YA can't return without cancelling Champions - but the teams are in fact the same generation (not unlike Young Justice and the Teen Titans at DC). Amadeus Cho is three years older than Cassie Lang.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 07-16-2019 at 02:29 AM.
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  9. #699
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I'd love if they somehow had Billy and Tommy on WandaVision but I can't even think of how it would work... Better not to have any expectations.

  10. #700
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I'd love if they somehow had Billy and Tommy on WandaVision but I can't even think of how it would work... Better not to have any expectations.
    Um, reality warping?
    They mentioned reality warping in a tweet in a link that was posted earlier in this thread. And it's probably also how we'll get Vision back.
    We might actually get something similair to Tom King's Vision series, with in this case Wanda creating an entire family for herself.

    I really don't get why people are having so much trouble imagining how Billy and Tommy could get into the show. They'd be ridiculously easy to do.
    And even Teddy isn't that dificult, since we now have both Kree and Skrulls in the MCU.
    The amount of reworking they'd have to do for their origin stories has decreased astronomically over the last year. Still some changes, but the basics are right there.
    Last edited by NexusTenebrare; 07-16-2019 at 08:54 AM.
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  11. #701
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Um, reality warping?
    They mentioned reality warping in a tweet in a link that was posted earlier in this thread. And it's probably also how we'll get Vision back.
    We might actually get something similair to Tom King's Vision series, with in this case Wanda creating an entire family for herself.

    I really don't get why people are having so much trouble imagining how Billy and Tommy could get into the show. They'd be ridiculously easy to do.
    And even Teddy isn't that dificult, since we now have both Kree and Skrulls in the MCU.
    The amount of reworking they'd have to do for their origin stories has decreased astronomically over the last year. Still some changes, but the basics are right there.
    Exactly. And I’m hoping that Viv can be in the show along with the twins. I just really came to like her over the years.
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    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
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  12. #702
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Um, reality warping?
    They mentioned reality warping in a tweet in a link that was posted earlier in this thread. And it's probably also how we'll get Vision back.
    We might actually get something similair to Tom King's Vision series, with in this case Wanda creating an entire family for herself.

    I really don't get why people are having so much trouble imagining how Billy and Tommy could get into the show. They'd be ridiculously easy to do.
    And even Teddy isn't that dificult, since we now have both Kree and Skrulls in the MCU.
    The amount of reworking they'd have to do for their origin stories has decreased astronomically over the last year. Still some changes, but the basics are right there.
    Yeah, sure. But are they gonna be already created as teenagers instead of babies? Why? Are they just gonna be out there as heroes in the YA while they live with Wanda and Vis, instead of living normal lives with normal families? If not, then how are they gonna go to that point? Are they gonna focus the whole show around them? Don't get me wrong I'm definetely rooting for it to happen, but I just feel like it's better to get expectations low. And that it's slightly more complicated than "just reality warping".

  13. #703
    Spectacular Member Ibara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    It does look like WandaVision will introduce the twins, so I don't think Wiccan would be on a team alone. The only reason Speed wouldn't also be there is if they merge the storyline with that of Tom King's Vision, and ditch the speedster in favour of Viv.
    I think they are definitely going to draw from King's Vision, which is why I left Speed out, but with Wanda in the mix they could explore elements of her being a twin allowing for a more fluid introduction of Tommy (I'd much prefer Tommy over Viv).

    spoilers:
    My pre-Far From Home crackpot Fanon had MJ revealed to be "Kate Bishop" and form the YA alongside Cassie. Peter would be brought into the fold as the audience stand-in to introduce the rest of the cast. The first YA movie would revolve around Cassie, MJ-Kate, Peter, Kamala, Billy, and Teddy (and Ned!?). Future installments would bring in Miles, Nova, Viv and/or Tommy, Riri(?), Shuri, and Patriot in varying capacities and possibly save some of them for much further down the line.

    Each of the YAs would initially appear to be the legacy of another avenger and revealed to have a different connection later on (similar to the comics).

    At first, before Endgame and Far From Home came out, I thought of an idea of having Cassie be "Iron Lad" and have Peter be conflicted upon seeing someone in an Iron Man suit flying around. My new idea is to reveal what Cassie was doing during the 5 year "blip," desperately searching for her father, encountering and allying with Ghost along the way and discovering her powers.

    MJ would be revealed to be Michelle Katherine Jones-Bishop, wouldn't become Hawkeye until later - she would bankroll the YA after their "rescue" similar to her introduction in the comics.

    Hulkling would be the of Grandson of Mar-Vell (or the son of Minerva/Yonn-Rogg banished to Earth) gaining his powers from Carol similar to how Patriot got his powers. He'd appear as a Captain America legacy at first (with an energy shield created by his powers). His powers would be a combination of Carol's and his comic/Hulkling abilities, he wouldn't be a shapeshifter but could manipulate his "light" powers similar to Armor from the X-men. Alternatively they could have him be the progeny of some combination of Mar-Vell and Skrull prince or Genis-Vell and Skrull princess and keep his Kree-Skrull backstory and powers (I changed his powers to incorporate Kamala further down). Cast - Ryan Potter, Booboo Stewart, Jacob Elordi, Ben Winchell.

    Wiccan would be the Grandson of Agatha Harkness or a refugee from Sokovia and adopted son of Wanda and Vision. He'd either gain his powers as a natural mage, or gain them from Wanda in an attempt to save his life during the course of the WandaVision series. I could see Wanda and Billy having more of spiritual bond and maybe having her be his superhero mom - being the impetus for his powers, etc. Tommy/Viv would be Billy's twin - in the same accident that hurts Billy, Tommy/Viv would become comatose, Vision would create a body for him/her and Wanda would transfer his/her soul into a new body (I don't really like this idea). Billy would appear as a "Thor"-ling legacy initially. Cast - Joey Pollari, Brandon Flynn.

    Kamala would be half Skrull, half human. A daughter of one of the Skrull's saved by Carol. She would idolize Captain Marvel and serve as her legacy down the line. Alternatively she could be saved by Carol in a Patriot/comic scenario and have her powers result from the Kree-Skrull-Human transfusion. She would initially appear as a She-"Hulk" legacy. Cast - Maariah Hussain.
    end of spoilers

  14. #704
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    They weren't published at the same time - though I see no reason why YA can't return without cancelling Champions - but the teams are in fact the same generation (not unlike Young Justice and the Teen Titans at DC). Amadeus Cho is three years older than Cassie Lang.
    I definitely think they can co-exist in the comics. Movies work differently, though, 'cause there's only so many slots for productions, so it's unlikely we'd have two flagship teenage groups being produced at the same time by Marvel Studios. Unless one of them gets shipped to Marvel TV, where the franchises unfortunately don't matter as much to the larger shared universe.

    And I just meant generation of comics, not necessarily the age of the characters. Just like old comics are divided in different decades (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s), the Young Avengers were created with that early 00's essence, while the Champions were more influenced by the post-2010 era of comics. I'm just saying that if they're bringing the Young Avengers to the MCU, it makes more sense to me that they would choose to focus on that particular era of comics first.

    Quote Originally Posted by NexusTenebrare View Post
    Um, reality warping?
    They mentioned reality warping in a tweet in a link that was posted earlier in this thread. And it's probably also how we'll get Vision back.
    We might actually get something similair to Tom King's Vision series, with in this case Wanda creating an entire family for herself.

    I really don't get why people are having so much trouble imagining how Billy and Tommy could get into the show. They'd be ridiculously easy to do.
    And even Teddy isn't that dificult, since we now have both Kree and Skrulls in the MCU.
    The amount of reworking they'd have to do for their origin stories has decreased astronomically over the last year. Still some changes, but the basics are right there.
    Sure, Wanda having reality warping powers explains how she can have kids, but it doesn't explain how we get to Billy and Tommy as we know. There is a lot that happened between Wanda having kids and Wiccan and Speed making their debut in comics, and even in the comics some elements of their super convoluted origin story are still unclear. So the biggest question is how that's gonna translate to a more realistic universe like the MCU. Like, how are they gonna explain the Kaplan/Shepherd families? Or they aren't gonna be there at all? Which, in my opinion, would be a mistake, as the Kaplans were absolutely relevant and added a lot to Billy's backstory. Not to mention it'd feel hella disrespectul for them to erase his jewish heritage like that, specially considering it was likely inspired by Allan Heinberg's own jewish upbringing. So yeah, there are lot of questions about how they're gonna pull that off.

  15. #705
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Yeah, sure. But are they gonna be already created as teenagers instead of babies? Why? Are they just gonna be out there as heroes in the YA while they live with Wanda and Vis, instead of living normal lives with normal families? If not, then how are they gonna go to that point? Are they gonna focus the whole show around them? Don't get me wrong I'm definetely rooting for it to happen, but I just feel like it's better to get expectations low. And that it's slightly more complicated than "just reality warping".
    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Sure, Wanda having reality warping powers explains how she can have kids, but it doesn't explain how we get to Billy and Tommy as we know. There is a lot that happened between Wanda having kids and Wiccan and Speed making their debut in comics, and even in the comics some elements of their super convoluted origin story are still unclear. So the biggest question is how that's gonna translate to a more realistic universe like the MCU. Like, how are they gonna explain the Kaplan/Shepherd families? Or they aren't gonna be there at all? Which, in my opinion, would be a mistake, as the Kaplans were absolutely relevant and added a lot to Billy's backstory. Not to mention it'd feel hella disrespectul for them to erase his jewish heritage like that, specially considering it was likely inspired by Allan Heinberg's own jewish upbringing. So yeah, there are lot of questions about how they're gonna pull that off.
    A lot of questions there. The point of the show being to explore and anwser those. Why do you expect all the answers right now?
    The show will probably start with the twins in one place and then end with them in a place where they could join the YA.
    #EmmaWasRight

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