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  1. #406
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Looking back I think Wiccan's and Hulkling's origins should have been different.

    I don't like the whole OP magic user that Wiccan became. I would have gone with him being Loki's son. Loki would have disguised himself and Thor and got a woman pregnant to make him look bad. Kid would have gotten a magical staff that controlled winter weather and been kind of like Jack Frost from Rise of The Guardians.

    Hulkling would have been just that...a hulk. A government program to create a controllable hulk. They took eggs from Jennifer Walters and mixed them with DNA taken from the Abomination. They then placed the kid with a completely functional, loving family so as not have have all the trauma Banner had.
    These are both interesting ideas. I can definitely see them being alternate universe iterations of Billy and Teddy or being the potential basis for new characters.
    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  2. #407
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    Making Hulkling a Hulk wouldn't have fit with the high concept of the original series, which was to show four characters who seemed like legacies of four famous Marvel characters, and then reveal they were all legacies of completely different Marvel characters. Iron Lad was the legacy of (well, really, the same as) Kang; "Asgardian" turned out to be a legacy of the Scarlet Witch, the kid who seemed to be following in the footsteps of Steve Rogers was actually following in the footsteps of Isaiah Bradley, and Hulkling was the son of Mar-Vell.

    Now that we know who those characters are their origins aren't as surprising, but at the time it was a big part of the success of the series that those four boys weren't the corny knockoffs or teen sidekicks they appeared to be at first.

  3. #408
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Even Hawkeye originally intended to be a composite legacy to three dead heroes: Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Swordsman. Only Stature was who she professed to be, since she really was related to Ant-Man (she originally wanted to be Ant-Girl, in fact, but didn't have the helmet and therefore the ant control powers - she does have that nowadays as Stinger though).

  4. #409
    Spectacular Member karatattoo's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    Possible foreshadowing of Cassie becoming Stature is when her father said "you're so big."
    end of spoilers

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Looking back I think Wiccan's and Hulkling's origins should have been different.

    I don't like the whole OP magic user that Wiccan became. I would have gone with him being Loki's son. Loki would have disguised himself and Thor and got a woman pregnant to make him look bad. Kid would have gotten a magical staff that controlled winter weather and been kind of like Jack Frost from Rise of The Guardians.

    Hulkling would have been just that...a hulk. A government program to create a controllable hulk. They took eggs from Jennifer Walters and mixed them with DNA taken from the Abomination. They then placed the kid with a completely functional, loving family so as not have have all the trauma Banner had.
    Then why not just make original characters. I think they can get away with Billy simply being an ordinary Kaplan boy and then gets magic power through other means.
    Loki's son just sounds very random.

    There are bunch of actual young Hulks you can choose, there are some defining traits of Hulkling you canno simply change, the Skrull part is essential to him and his stories. (I think they can get away with no Kree heritage for Hulkling.)
    Last edited by MaximoffTrash; 05-01-2019 at 05:27 AM.

  6. #411
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
    spoilers:
    Cassie should have been the one to release her father from the quantum realm, she's the only one who has seen Scott go into the quantum realm and has a vague idea what's going on. Plus Cassie has never really done anything aside from being fodder for her father to save aside from the one brief scene in Antman and the Wasp. But nope instead of having Cassie do something a freaking rat could do she's just there to give Scott's emotional moment. Really makes me think they're not interested in developing her character beyond Scott's daughter.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Like others have said, I don't think Cassie knew her dad was stuck in the Quantum Realm for all that time. If she did, that would've probably been a plot point.
    end of spoilers

    As for the character being more than just Scott's daughter, I wouldn't worry just yet. I remember someone involved in the Ant-Man movies (can't remember if it was the director or a writer) said they were a fan of Nick Spencer's Ant-Man run and Scott's relationship with Cassie there. That same run featured Cassie becoming Stinger and being a hero in her own right, even saving her dad's ass at one point. So they are definitely aware Cassie is more than just his daughter. If that's something they will bring to the MCU, I don't know, but at least they're reading the right source material for inspiration, so that's good news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Looking back I think Wiccan's and Hulkling's origins should have been different.

    I don't like the whole OP magic user that Wiccan became. I would have gone with him being Loki's son. Loki would have disguised himself and Thor and got a woman pregnant to make him look bad. Kid would have gotten a magical staff that controlled winter weather and been kind of like Jack Frost from Rise of The Guardians.

    Hulkling would have been just that...a hulk. A government program to create a controllable hulk. They took eggs from Jennifer Walters and mixed them with DNA taken from the Abomination. They then placed the kid with a completely functional, loving family so as not have have all the trauma Banner had.
    Errrm... to each their own, I guess. I prefer the stories they got over those you suggested. I get where you're coming from, that because they were introduced as Thor/Hulk legacies, their origins should reflect that, buuut like gurkle said:

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Making Hulkling a Hulk wouldn't have fit with the high concept of the original series, which was to show four characters who seemed like legacies of four famous Marvel characters, and then reveal they were all legacies of completely different Marvel characters. Iron Lad was the legacy of (well, really, the same as) Kang; "Asgardian" turned out to be a legacy of the Scarlet Witch, the kid who seemed to be following in the footsteps of Steve Rogers was actually following in the footsteps of Isaiah Bradley, and Hulkling was the son of Mar-Vell.

    Now that we know who those characters are their origins aren't as surprising, but at the time it was a big part of the success of the series that those four boys weren't the corny knockoffs or teen sidekicks they appeared to be at first.
    Exactly! That's what was part of their initial appeal, and that's why it worked the way it did. So I'm glad with the choices they made. The only thing now that still bugs me is the fact that Billy outgrew his Thor persona, but Teddy is still stuck on his Hulk one. I've said this a million times, but it really IS time for him to move on from that. Being ''a hulk'' just feels shallow for him now.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 05-01-2019 at 03:34 AM.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Even Hawkeye originally intended to be a composite legacy to three dead heroes: Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Swordsman.
    She barely ever used the gear from Mockingbird or the Swordsman she found (to the point that she *still* doesn't know that the Swordsman's sword can shoot ice beams, fire blasts and paralyzing gas jets!).**

    I always thought of her as a standard bait-and-switch (like Hulkling and Wiccan, who appear to be Hulk and Thor legacies, but are actually Captain Mar-Vell and Scarlet Witch legacies). She *looks* like a Hawkeye legacy, but he's a carny ex-crook who fell into being an Avenger, while she's a bored young socialite who bulled herself into being a superhero through sheer chutzpah and not taking no for an answer, making her much more of a Wasp or Hellcat legacy (since that's pretty much what both of those characters did). *Tommy* is more like Hawkeye, in origination, despite being a speedster and not an archer, in that he's also got a criminal past (but was young enough to get juvie instead of grown-up prison).

    **And that's one of the things that bugs me sometimes about the Young Avengers, is all the abandoned plot points. Kate has the Swordsman's sword. It's ten times better a ranged weapon than any bow she's ever had. And it ties her to the sword's maker, the Mandarin, who might have forgotten about it, but when it starts being used again, is likely to notice and perhaps have differing opinions on who is worthy to be using it (or just let her use it, because he never 'forgot' about it, but let the Avengers hold onto it so that he could use it's alien Makluan tech to remotely spy on them, which he now does on Kate?). There's a whole story there, about Kate and the Mandarin, that the original writers never got around to, and if they wrote down any sort of 'character bible to Kate', clearly nobody who has written her since could be arsed to read the darn thing...

    There's similar plot points for Billy and Teddy, particularly, but also Eli (MGH?, different powers?), Tommy (juvie?, met/dated/did crime with Coat of Arms?), etc. and the original writers never got around to doing more than hint at them, after which no other writers even touched upon them.

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post



    Errrm... to each their own, I guess. I prefer the stories they got over those you suggested. I get where you're coming from, that because they were introduced as Thor/Hulk legacies, their origins should reflect that, buuut like gurkle said:



    Exactly! That's what was part of their initial appeal, and that's why it worked the way it did. So I'm glad with the choices they made. The only thing now that still bugs me is the fact that Billy outgrew his Thor persona, but Teddy is still stuck on his Hulk one. I've said this a million times, but it really IS time for him to move on from that. Being ''a hulk'' just feels shallow for him now.
    My point is I think they just way over powered those 2 characters. The team was teen Kang with armor that rivals Iron Man, a reality altering teen wizard, a Kree/Skrull hybrid shape shifter.....and then Patriot hopped up on MGH. I would have preferred some diversity in power levels. Bring in Kate and Cassie and it evens out some. Just my $0.02.

  9. #414
    All-New Member GraysonXIV's Avatar
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    I like the origin stories well enough in the comics. I don't think they need to be retconned or changed there. If we're going to see YA in the MCU though, then I think some editing could absolutely help tell a more compelling story for Wiccan and Hulkling on screen. I think Hulkling's origin story is overall fine for the MCU, but maybe he doesn't have to be the "savior" of the two races. Have him still be half of each and the son of an important Kree or Skrull, and his character wouldn't be fundamentally changed.

    Wiccan and Speed's origins should totally be altered if they're going to be used in the MCU, but again, I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people have suggested. I've seen elsewhere suggestions that their origins are too complicated/weird and could never translate to film or television. Wanda was so overtaken with grief/wanting to have a family with the Vision that she brought these souls into being and they took someone else's body. Just make the bodies those of teenagers, and you're good to go. Especially if spoilers:
    Vision remains gone, her grief in the TV series could just manifest the whole family, including him again.
    end of spoilers

  10. #415
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Cris-art never fails to deliver the kind of content Wiccling fans need.
    Case in point, she's already done her own version of their outfits from the Death's Head series:



    Queen of giving me everything I want!

    BTW, Kei Zama has also shared a Hulkling sketch:


  11. #416
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    The preview for Unstoppable Wasp #7 is up, birthday party with the Young Avengers and Champions guest starring

    http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2019/05/03/marvel-preview-the-unstoppable-wasp-7-2

    It seems they changed Cassie's dress from red to purple
    Last edited by Beetle; 05-02-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #417
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    Why is Tigra there wonder if she's going to be introduced to her genetic Half Brother?

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
    Why is Tigra there wonder if she's going to be introduced to her genetic Half Brother?
    Tigra was someone who was important in Hank's life -- he was romantically involved with her twice (and as far as we know was still dating her at the time of his 'death'), so she is someone who Nadia probably should meet if she hasn't already.

    I would imagine Bobbi invited her -- she and Greer have been close ever since the early days of the original West Coast Avengers.

  14. #419
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Tigra was someone who was important in Hank's life -- he was romantically involved with her twice (and as far as we know was still dating her at the time of his 'death'), so she is someone who Nadia probably should meet if she hasn't already.

    I would imagine Bobbi invited her -- she and Greer have been close ever since the early days of the original West Coast Avengers.
    Tigra, Hercules, and Jocosta were all also fellow instructors at the Avengers Academy with Hank. The way the characters are grouped up feels really intentional.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  15. #420
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    And Tony Stark is with those three too... Jocasta works for Tony, so makes sense they're together. Tony was with the Avengers when Nadia first showed up, and Herc was on the new roster once Tony and the Champions trio left. Jane Foster's absence is understandable, as Nadia never knew she was Thor, but someone should've invited Sam Wilson!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Tigra was someone who was important in Hank's life -- he was romantically involved with her twice (and as far as we know was still dating her at the time of his 'death'), so she is someone who Nadia probably should meet if she hasn't already.

    I would imagine Bobbi invited her -- she and Greer have been close ever since the early days of the original West Coast Avengers.
    We KNOW Bobbi invited her. Mentioned last issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    The preview for Unstoppable Wasp #7 is up, birthday party with the Young Avengers and Champions guest starring

    http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2019/05/03/marvel-preview-the-unstoppable-wasp-7-2

    It seems they changed Cassie's dress from red to purple
    Maybe because it was meant to match her costume? The colorist must've matched it to the Stature costume instead of the Stinger one by mistake, which got fixed after Whitley posted the teaser panels.

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