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  1. #751
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Y'all are reaching.
    You're right. Its just unfortunate.

  2. #752
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Perhaps its the spell level. (Sorry, I've been playing a lot of D&D lately) Maybe it requires more focus to "contain the robot"?
    Could be that, but then I remember this moment from New Avengers, where he was able to contain his enemy with single sentences, without any apparent struggle or need for extra concentration/repetition and can't help but wonder:



    I guess you could argue that maybe Death's Head is more powerful/resistant than Asti, and therefore Billy had to focus extra hard to contain one in comparison to the other. I don't know, but I'm hoping the book will address this just because I like some consistency when it comes to how a character's powers work.

  3. #753
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    If Billy can just say anything once at any moment without even trying and everything is solved, there's no story. Definetely not a fight scene at least. Which is fine on a book like New Avengers where there was a lot of action going around in the same place with other characters, but not when it's just him and Teddy.

  4. #754
    Spectacular Member scourge's Avatar
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    I think the thing with Asti was more a case of Asti being weak against/having no defense against Billy's magic. Like what he said, Billy could see right through him and knew exactly what he was and how he worked. Could also have been a case of 'prepared spells' vs 'spell on the fly'.

    Of course it could also be a case of 'everyone has to be weaker compared to the guy who's name is on the cover'. I mean Teddy kinda gets punked there too.

  5. #755
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    If Billy can just say anything once at any moment without even trying and everything is solved, there's no story. Definetely not a fight scene at least. Which is fine on a book like New Avengers where there was a lot of action going around in the same place with other characters, but not when it's just him and Teddy.
    I get that. From a storytelling point, making him struggle more is more dynamic and makes him less of a Gary Stu character. That totally works as an off-world excuse, but still doesn't explain why it happens in-world, which is why I wish there was some official explanation to how his powers work, just so it doesn't look like it's inconsistently written in different books.

  6. #756
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Yeah I agree with Wiccan, having to repeat the spells until they work helps with storytelling. It's an instantly identifiable way to tell it's Billy's magic, he can get interrupted before they finish so it's a weakness that can be exploited.

    I was never a fan of Billy being able to alter the whole of reality with a single word, it's too powerful and it makes it hard to justify having him on a team with someone who just shoots arrows, and having both Billy and Hawkeye contribute to the plot

  7. #757
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    Unfortunately editors and writers don't seem to think it's worth it to explain these changes. I don't think one line of "Hey, I thought you didn't need to do that any more" followed by a one-line explanation would turn new readers off, but it's mostly a thing of the past.

    I agree with those who say that it isn't a good idea to drop Billy's trademark spell-casting method, as this is one of the most distinctive things about him and it keeps him from becoming completely overpowered.

  8. #758
    Spectacular Member Journey's Avatar
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    I might be in the minority but ever since Vol 2 I l loved the Demiurge thing and I love the fact that Billy's power set is on par with Franklin Richards. I mean Billy is easily 1 of top 10 most powerful marvel characters on potential alone. If he was used more often more people would see that.

    With that said he still has a long way to go it makes sense he might be a little off with his spells. Canon wise he probably isn't all that active in his superhero life he's bound to be a little rusty.

    On the bright side no more IwantIwantIwant.......
    Last edited by Journey; 07-26-2019 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #759
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    He's officially NOT on par with Franklin, who has been declared an Omega Mutant. You can only be an Omega if nothing and nobody can do it better than you. For example, Forge isn't an Omega Mutant because Reed Richards and Tony Stark can outdo him even without his "create anything he can imagine" powers.

    It was explained in House of X #1.

  10. #760
    Spectacular Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    He's officially NOT on par with Franklin, who has been declared an Omega Mutant. You can only be an Omega if nothing and nobody can do it better than you. For example, Forge isn't an Omega Mutant because Reed Richards and Tony Stark can outdo him even without his "create anything he can imagine" powers.

    It was explained in House of X #1.
    Well we don't even know if Billy is a mutant anymore so I wasn't really referencing the whole omega thing. I'm just saying there powers are pretty much the same thing. Franklin created whole universes apparently Billy does the same thing as the Demiurge. Though I haven't been keeping up with FF I'm pretty sure Franklin was depowered last I checked doesn't his shit just like fall apart now or something? Whatever the case my initial point is there powers are basically same Richard's just has more noticable feats cause he's been around forever and used more often. But from all the information we have I'd say there pretty equal. IMO

  11. #761
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    Was he ever even established as a mutant? Young Avengers didn't really seem to establish it (I guess there was that one bit in Children's Crusade when Emma calls him and Tommy "fine young mutants" but she was trying to brainwash them at the time). Even before they un-mutant-ed Wanda and Pietro they never seemed to say definitively if Wanda Jr. and Mini-Pietro were mutants, possibly because that might affect their movie rights.

  12. #762
    Spectacular Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Was he ever even established as a mutant? Young Avengers didn't really seem to establish it (I guess there was that one bit in Children's Crusade when Emma calls him and Tommy "fine young mutants" but she was trying to brainwash them at the time). Even before they un-mutant-ed Wanda and Pietro they never seemed to say definitively if Wanda Jr. and Mini-Pietro were mutants, possibly because that might affect their movie rights.
    IDK dude like you said the only thing that really comes to mind was when Emma called them mutants. That's all I could think of on the spot, though an older version of Billy did end up joining the X-men so there's that.... They leave it obscure for a reason the only 1 who probably could give a definitive answer on Billy and Tommy being mutants or not is Heinburg. But I say yes merely because I just choose to ignore the high revolutionary ret con. The idea that Wanda was causing all that reality tearing destruction for years because she was a science experiment is stupid to me. Not to mention Wanda and Pietro became largely less interesting without the Magneto connection.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    IDK dude like you said the only thing that really comes to mind was when Emma called them mutants. That's all I could think of on the spot, though an older version of Billy did end up joining the X-men so there's that.... They leave it obscure for a reason the only 1 who probably could give a definitive answer on Billy and Tommy being mutants or not is Heinburg. But I say yes merely because I just choose to ignore the high revolutionary ret con. The idea that Wanda was causing all that reality tearing destruction for years because she was a science experiment is stupid to me. Not to mention Wanda and Pietro became largely less interesting without the Magneto connection.
    Not really, Wanda's Wundagore origin and Chthon connection are still intact.
    HE's experiment only replaced her mutant part, her being a vessel for Chthon, learning magic are still canon.
    Also Bendis started this stupidity by claiming "Chaos Magic doesn't exist" and she is causing large scale reality warping just because she was a mutant with RW powers.
    That is what actually ruined her long-time lore and power structure. Her genetic based power isn't even that important post-Busiek. It's more of her entrance ticket to grander mystical power.
    And really to Wanda Magneto connection is like that supposedly interesting connection that holds no real weight and brings no real benefits to the character what so ever.

  14. #764
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I might be in the minority but ever since Vol 2 I l loved the Demiurge thing and I love the fact that Billy's power set is on par with Franklin Richards. I mean Billy is easily 1 of top 10 most powerful marvel characters on potential alone. If he was used more often more people would see that.

    With that said he still has a long way to go it makes sense he might be a little off with his spells. Canon wise he probably isn't all that active in his superhero life he's bound to be a little rusty.

    On the bright side no more IwantIwantIwant.......
    I LOVED the Demiurge development and I do like the idea of Billy having so much potential. I just don't think it should be his status quo, like, the kind of power that he has at all times, but the kind of power that he uses in very special occasions, so that could keep him grounded in more basic stories, but still useful in bigger stories against bigger threats. It should be established that ''going Demiurge'' is hard for him for whatever reason (and I do think Gillen's run did a good job in portraying him struggling to get there), so it justifies that power not being used as a Deus Ex Machina on every story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    He's officially NOT on par with Franklin, who has been declared an Omega Mutant. You can only be an Omega if nothing and nobody can do it better than you. For example, Forge isn't an Omega Mutant because Reed Richards and Tony Stark can outdo him even without his "create anything he can imagine" powers.

    It was explained in House of X #1.
    That doesn't prove Billy's not on par with him, just that Billy is not a mutant who's superior to him, and we don't even know if Marvel considers Billy a mutant, so it's questionable whether he'd make the list even if he was as powerful as Franklin anyway. The fact that there were 3 reality warpers and 2 telepaths on that list is enough to consider that even if those listed are ''the best'' in what they do, there are other people who can be as good as them.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Was he ever even established as a mutant? Young Avengers didn't really seem to establish it (I guess there was that one bit in Children's Crusade when Emma calls him and Tommy "fine young mutants" but she was trying to brainwash them at the time). Even before they un-mutant-ed Wanda and Pietro they never seemed to say definitively if Wanda Jr. and Mini-Pietro were mutants, possibly because that might affect their movie rights.
    No, Billy was never explicitly established to be a mutant, and yes, that Emma Frost moment in Children's Crusade was the closest we got to an on-page confirmation, but like you said, it's very questionable due to the circumstances. Oh, and his his official Marvel website page describes his powers as ''possibly mutant'', but again, not a clear confirmation (also, I'm questioning the interpretation skills of whoever edited that page, 'cause it also says the Kaplans are his ''adoptive family'', when he is quite literally not adopted). Tom Brevoort once said on his Tumblr that he doesn't know if they were ever mutants, and Tom was the editor who actually helped create the Young Avengers, so that says a lot about how their ''mutant status'' really isn't clear at all.

  15. #765
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    The Omega Mutant is usually used to hype up a character, also a Omega Mutant isn't necessarily more powerful than a none-Omega really, maybe in terms of mutant power.
    But not all mutants purely rely on mutant power, especially for mutants with mystical/technological enhancemane.
    You also have to keep in mind that Billy's power is not a result of genetic heritage, his biological parents are really just normal people.
    Also unlike Wanda, his power was considered magic from start, there is no "if he cannot do magic" assumption.(Like Wanda's base power being either Probability Manipulation Pre-Busiek or Energy Manipulation Post-Busiek.)

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