Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

Continuing on from millernumber1's thoughts on making Babs into Oracle.

I think DC has a real trouble recreating Oracle in story. Oracle's creation story goes into some real ugly places in DC's past, and is an implicit critique of the way women and side characters are treated in stories. Ostrander and Yale not only created a new and unique role for Babs, in the process they had the fridged woman and the redshirt look the hero in the eye and ask who they care about.

So not only does Oracle make a certain set of people uncomfortable: disabled in a genre where the abled body is celebrated; a woman in a genre where men dominates as publishers, writers, distributors, and in marketing. Her origin story makes it even more so. It includes one of the most celebrated stories that DC has published, and a scathing critique of the same story.

The paradox is that Oracle has the most meaningful and compelling origin story of any superhero, but it's also a story which could only be told once, because it helped shine the light on and expose the ugly underbelly of popular culture. I think it's no surprise that Gail Simone's Women in Refridgerators campaign came at about the same time. Oracle Year One ought to be hailed as one of the DC's seminal comics. But in its telling it changed the awareness of the object it critiqued.

So Oracle Year One can't be retold (unlike say Spiderman's origin story), and at the same time no other version of turning Babs into Oracle can have a chance of being remotely as meaningful.

We've got an Oracle young adult graphic novel coming out, and I imagine that will focus heavily on Babs' transition into that role even if I'm not sure if they'll address Batgirl at all.

I'm also wondering if the 5G timeline will see that restored since she can't be Batgirl forever in it.

[millernumber1]

Continuing on from millernumber1's thoughts on making Babs into Oracle.

I think DC has a real trouble recreating Oracle in story. Oracle's creation story goes into some real ugly places in DC's past, and is an implicit critique of the way women and side characters are treated in stories. Ostrander and Yale not only created a new and unique role for Babs, in the process they had the fridged woman and the redshirt look the hero in the eye and ask who they care about.

So not only does Oracle make a certain set of people uncomfortable: disabled in a genre where the abled body is celebrated; a woman in a genre where men dominates as publishers, writers, distributors, and in marketing. Her origin story makes it even more so. It includes one of the most celebrated stories that DC has published, and a scathing critique of the same story.

The paradox is that Oracle has the most meaningful and compelling origin story of any superhero, but it's also a story which could only be told once, because it helped shine the light on and expose the ugly underbelly of popular culture. I think it's no surprise that Gail Simone's Women in Refridgerators campaign came at about the same time. Oracle Year One ought to be hailed as one of the DC's seminal comics. But in its telling it changed the awareness of the object it critiqued.

So Oracle Year One can't be retold (unlike say Spiderman's origin story), and at the same time no other version of turning Babs into Oracle can have a chance of being remotely as meaningful.

Really thoughtful post here, though I disagree that you can't do Oracle again. I think you probably shouldn't do Killing Joke again...but who's to say Babs couldn't be catastrophically injured in some other way, and become Oracle in her own story? It won't have the same historical impact, but I don't think history is the only reason I love Oracle. I didn't read Oracle Year One or even The Killing Joke until after I fell in love with Oracle in Simone's Birds of Prey.

And 1000% agree that Oracle Year One should be reprinted and collected and hailed as one of the great Year Ones. But I have to fight with people on the wikis about including it, and people never know what I'm talking about when I mention it.

I don’t think it would happen in WK, but in a 3rd series maybe. And probably with a Murphy spin and a lot of BTAS influence. I certainly think that’s where he is going with her though.

I feel like with how many things Murphy is throwing into Curse of the White Knight, I'm fully expecting it. I'm not sure how I feel about it, since I'm really frustrated at all the things Murphy is doing that aren't setup to be paid off, but he pays them off anyway.

[kjn]

We've got an Oracle young adult graphic novel coming out, and I imagine that will focus heavily on Babs' transition into that role even if I'm not sure if they'll address Batgirl at all.

I'm also wondering if the 5G timeline will see that restored since she can't be Batgirl forever in it.

Yeah, and I'm really curious about how they the Oracle Ink-line story will handle this.

Really thoughtful post here, though I disagree that you can't do Oracle again. I think you probably shouldn't do Killing Joke again...but who's to say Babs couldn't be catastrophically injured in some other way, and become Oracle in her own story? It won't have the same historical impact, but I don't think history is the only reason I love Oracle. I didn't read Oracle Year One or even The Killing Joke until after I fell in love with Oracle in Simone's Birds of Prey.

And 1000% agree that Oracle Year One should be reprinted and collected and hailed as one of the great Year Ones. But I have to fight with people on the wikis about including it, and people never know what I'm talking about when I mention it.

The thing is, you can tell an Oracle origin story again, e.g. based on a catastrophic accident. But such a story can never be as meaningful—and thus as powerful—as what Yale and Ostrander created based on TKJ. The ugliness of TKJ was a narrative pressure cooker, and it can't be recreated today.

Or if DC intends to do so, imagine the backlash today—Heroes in Crisis will be apper pitiful in comparison. And which writers and creators would be both capable and willing to try to recreate it? Especially with the New 52 decision to regress Babs's character. Taking her back to the Oracle role now would be another regression, and force all sorts of character development hoops.

[millernumber1]

The thing is, you can tell an Oracle origin story again, e.g. based on a catastrophic accident. But such a story can never be as meaningful—and thus as powerful—as what Yale and Ostrander created based on TKJ. The ugliness of TKJ was a narrative pressure cooker, and it can't be recreated today.

Or if DC intends to do so, imagine the backlash today—Heroes in Crisis will be apper pitiful in comparison. And which writers and creators would be both capable and willing to try to recreate it? Especially with the New 52 decision to regress Babs's character. Taking her back to the Oracle role now would be another regression, and force all sorts of character development hoops.

I would disagree that it can't be as meaningful. It won't have those specific historical circumstances, but who's to say that a confluence of artistic talent and historical circumstances won't happen again? It won't be the same, but that doesn't mean it will be lesser.

Taking her back to Oracle would be a promotion after her demotion, in my perspective. But I know there was always a group of fans who hated Oracle all through the 90s and 2000s, and the management at DC seems to be among them right now.

[Godlike13]

She doesn’t have to be injured to be Oracle again.

[Konja7]

I would disagree that it can't be as meaningful. It won't have those specific historical circumstances, but who's to say that a confluence of artistic talent and historical circumstances won't happen again? It won't be the same, but that doesn't mean it will be lesser.

Taking her back to Oracle would be a promotion after her demotion, in my perspective. But I know there was always a group of fans who hated Oracle all through the 90s and 2000s, and the management at DC seems to be among them right now.

In my case, I loved Oracle. However, I wouldn't want Barbara as Oracle again (if it means she needs to be injured again).

The sad truth is that Barbara as Oracle could not have an ongoing solo and to some extent this identity limits her role (she could become a support character in her own book).

Don't minsuderstand me, I don't like Barbara as Batgirl, especially because they try to present her as younger and inexperienced. However, I would prefer a totally new identity for Barbara.

[Godlike13]

Oracle just needs to be updated. The days of people stuck at a desktop is long past.

[Katana500]

I felt like DC were eyeing up giving Frankie the Oracle role. But then decided against it. Always feel like her appearances hint towards her taking such a role,

[kjn]

The sad truth is that Barbara as Oracle could not have an ongoing solo and to some extent this identity limits her role (she could become a support character in her own book).

Is a solo book that important? The original Birds of Prey had a wonderful concept, and going back to Babs+Dinah and Babs+Helena would leave plenty of scope for Babs. You could also rotate in characters like Renee Montoya, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Cass, or Steph. Babs as Oracle is also well placed to be DC's universal supporting character, though editors will have to be careful to make sure her use isn't becoming one-note. Think information manager and librarian rather than hacker.

My own idea for a Birds of Prey story: do it big standard with Dinah and Helena doing lots of action-y stuff, like an infiltration mission going seriously awry. But all we get to see is Babs's reactions, what she can glean from some security cameras, and the dialogue between them.

[Godlike13]

BOP is Harley’s thing now. And since there is no BOP back log with her in it to go with the movie, new BOP material is going to center around her for a while.

[millernumber1]

BOP is Harley’s thing now. And since there is no BOP back log with her in it to go with the movie, new BOP material is going to center around her for a while.

This is so infuriating. BoP should be Barbara and Dinah's thing, and I would add Helena. I like Harley, but she doesn't need BoP.

[Konja7]

Is a solo book that important? The original Birds of Prey had a wonderful concept, and going back to Babs+Dinah and Babs+Helena would leave plenty of scope for Babs. You could also rotate in characters like Renee Montoya, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Cass, or Steph. Babs as Oracle is also well placed to be DC's universal supporting character, though editors will have to be careful to make sure her use isn't becoming one-note. Think information manager and librarian rather than hacker.

My own idea for a Birds of Prey story: do it big standard with Dinah and Helena doing lots of action-y stuff, like an infiltration mission going seriously awry. But all we get to see is Babs's reactions, what she can glean from some security cameras, and the dialogue between them.

Yeah. I think a solo book is that important, since the character can work independently. It is also possible other characters rotate in a solo for Barbara.

Not to mention that a solo does not prevent the character from belonging to a group in another book. So, a solo is less limiting.

If your favorite character could mantain a solo, it's pretty likely you would want the character to have a solo.


PS: Also, I don't think many fans like the idea their favorite character become DC's universal supporting character (unless they don't have a better option).

[Arnoldoaad]

BOP is Harley’s thing now. And since there is no BOP back log with her in it to go with the movie, new BOP material is going to center around her for a while.

the "for a while" would depend of how popular the movie becomes
if the movie bombs and has poor reviews we could expect this to last just a year and no more
but if its very popular then that might change stuff

[Godlike13]

If the movie bombs they probably just shelve BoP entirely then for a while. To let the stink wear off as they say. So either way I don’t see new BoP material happening with Babs anytime soon.

[Arnoldoaad]

If the movie bombs they probably just shelve BoP entirely then for a while. To let the stink wear off as they say. So either way I don’t see new BoP material happening with Babs anytime soon.

I didnt even thought of that
thats pretty likely