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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I'm still hoping that Derek will make a return in the next Crisi-level event that Snyder is brewing. I mean, he has all the check-list for that :

    • His life was changed by the events of Metal, which led to the Source Wall being broken
    • He can travel through places and dimensions, even to the Dark Multiverse
    • He's friend with Dark Multiverse versions of Superman's supporting cast and a travelling Superman
    • He's stumbled upon an evil company who wants to harness the energy of the Dark Multiverse and possibly as its eyes on the Source Wall energy
    • He's friend with one of the successors of the Monitors
    • He's been a temporary member of the Seven Soldiers of Mystery


    Honestly, if it isn't enough to warrant at least a small role in the next crisis and then a relaunch, I don't know what is.
    Completely agreed!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    These books did all sort of seem like they were going to bend back around to some kind of New Age of Heroes Crossover (to varying degrees, of course). And there was certainly plenty of neat overlap in them as to how that might progress - Hawkman turning up in Unexpected (METAL), as well as Mandrakk (FINAL CRISIS) and the nature of Bad Samaritan. The whole shebang with Terrifics - Michael and Eel (METAL) continuing on, incorporating Rex (Outsiders, last detailed in METAL) and bringing in all that Multiversity fun (MULTIVERSITY). Sideways powers (METAL) leading him to interact with New 52 Superman and a bunch more strange Supermen (ACTION, by way of MULTIVERSITY?). Silencer goes deep on a neo-incarnation of Leviathan that I'm sure will get some play in the near future (MORRISON, then BENDIS).

    All these books have links to that "Council of Immortals" stuff from Metal - Hawkman, Talia al Ghul, so on, so forth.

    So while most of the books are ending, many ended real fast because of pretty slip-shot execution or lack of interest, what we do know is that Scott Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE will be looping back around to a big Season 1 ending event that would be a great place to serve as the De Facto place for the crossover to explain what the heck was up with all these books and stories. And it's Justice League so it's not like "too many characters to touch base with" is really that huge a problem for it.
    The execution was pretty solid for just about all of the books, though. Lack of interest is probably more likely to accurately be attributed as "active shunning" more than anything, I would say. Also, there was a lot of behind-the-scenes drama plaguing the line, especially regarding the artists and their implied or actual commitment.

    Scott Synder doing a wrap up of sorts would be cool, since he is writing Justice League. His Metal Event was kinda a prelude, in hindsight.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    These books did all sort of seem like they were going to bend back around to some kind of New Age of Heroes Crossover (to varying degrees, of course). And there was certainly plenty of neat overlap in them as to how that might progress - Hawkman turning up in Unexpected (METAL), as well as Mandrakk (FINAL CRISIS) and the nature of Bad Samaritan. The whole shebang with Terrifics - Michael and Eel (METAL) continuing on, incorporating Rex (Outsiders, last detailed in METAL) and bringing in all that Multiversity fun (MULTIVERSITY). Sideways powers (METAL) leading him to interact with New 52 Superman and a bunch more strange Supermen (ACTION, by way of MULTIVERSITY?). Silencer goes deep on a neo-incarnation of Leviathan that I'm sure will get some play in the near future (MORRISON, then BENDIS).

    All these books have links to that "Council of Immortals" stuff from Metal - Hawkman, Talia al Ghul, so on, so forth.

    So while most of the books are ending, many ended real fast because of pretty slip-shot execution or lack of interest, what we do know is that Scott Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE will be looping back around to a big Season 1 ending event that would be a great place to serve as the De Facto place for the crossover to explain what the heck was up with all these books and stories. And it's Justice League so it's not like "too many characters to touch base with" is really that huge a problem for it.
    Doing that could also be a great way to relaunch some of the books (Sideways, The Unexpected, the Immortal Men, Brimstone, mainly) if they played a part in the event. It was probably a weakness of the line that the characters weren't introduced in a better way during Metal. But now that they have already laid some fondations which only require to be built upon.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Doing that could also be a great way to relaunch some of the books (Sideways, The Unexpected, the Immortal Men, Brimstone, mainly) if they played a part in the event. It was probably a weakness of the line that the characters weren't introduced in a better way during Metal. But now that they have already laid some fondations which only require to be built upon.
    They probably felt that it would be better to just largely intro them in their own titles instead of in the event specifically. There would always be detractors, and the usual detractor statement in response to introing them in Metal would be that they were "shoe-horning these new guys into a main Event" or something. Not directly introing them in Metal was probably their compromise, but the detraction faction still happened, so maybe Scott and them should have found a way anyway, then spun them off.

    There certainly could have been more direct references, outside of the Dark Days prelude and a few other small bits.

    A chance to relaunch those books would be wonderful; a The Immortal Men relaunch would be all kids of sweet!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    Yeah, it is the world of Superdemon and the League of Shadows. I meant anything beyond what we've seen in Multiversity. We saw so little of it and it's so overwhelming original large swaths of it are completely game for anyone who wants to write it.
    Agreed.

    Seems like the little bit that we saw would totally allow for a potentially male Phantom Girl, and nothing outside of what we saw to even remotely suggest that it is even a little bit unlikely.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Because it's never too late to share it, preview for today's issue of Brimstone, the penultimate, if I'm not mistaken : https://13thdimension.com/exclusive-...-brimstone-10/

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    So, The Unexpected series is over. Did anyone else than me read it ? Because it was a great finale, I think, since it was, well, an Unexpected ending, just like the cliffhanger of the first issue was.

    spoilers:
    Mandrakk wasn't destroyed but transformed by Neon, who also brought back the Bad Samaritan. It's also hinted that Firebrand remains in Gotham, and possibly starts a Relationship with an intern in the hospital seen in issue 1. I'm sad to see this title end but I feel it leaves the characters in a good place to reappear later.
    end of spoilers

    As for Brimstone, I really liked what was revealed about Wandering Jack and the cliffhanger at the end is really ominous and creepy, I like it !

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    It's vague as hell, but it could hint at something great for the New Age of Heroes characters who had their series shelved. Or be nothing.

    https://twitter.com/Ssnyder1835/stat...96765905981440

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    The execution was pretty solid for just about all of the books, though. Lack of interest is probably more likely to accurately be attributed as "active shunning" more than anything, I would say. Also, there was a lot of behind-the-scenes drama plaguing the line, especially regarding the artists and their implied or actual commitment.
    Lack of interest to active shunning is right. The reason I wasn't interested in them besides The Terrifics were because they're all new characters where there are already so many old characters I need to catch up on. The active shunning part is because I see DC is more interested in churning out new character and see which one stick instead of taking time to plan and develop the characters that already exist, a lot of them still hasn't returned even though Rebirth promised it.

    When Rebirth teased the return of JSA, LOS, or even the whole past continuity with Wally West, and instead of doing that what they did is create NAOH, it tells me they're not interested in keeping their promise, and in turn I'm not interested in reading their new characters. I'm sure many others feel the same way.

    As of now, I heard enough to be interested in The Silencer because of her relation to Talia, but that's it. Her and The Terrifics.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I also recommend The Unexpected (Hawkman end playing a surprisingly big role in there) and Sideways if you want some old characters popping (like Bolt - even if some of them are quite the reinvention of Superman's goofiest adventures).

    As for me, I dread the return of the LOS, JSA and all the likes because I'm afraid it will stiffle creativity for the sake of playing it safe and Nostalgia for everyone. I just have to look at the Superman's forums where the idea that Jon can be fine at an older age than he was introduced because he'll be the same as Kon is taking root to be extremely wary of DC pandering to the Rebirth's crowds (because there is several, yes). I don't want great books like Teen Titans or JLO being panned because Cyborg and KOry should be Titans and that's all or Damian can't be a team player because Tim Drake is the real Robin, or some stupidity like that.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I also recommend The Unexpected (Hawkman end playing a surprisingly big role in there) and Sideways if you want some old characters popping (like Bolt - even if some of them are quite the reinvention of Superman's goofiest adventures).

    As for me, I dread the return of the LOS, JSA and all the likes because I'm afraid it will stiffle creativity for the sake of playing it safe and Nostalgia for everyone. I just have to look at the Superman's forums where the idea that Jon can be fine at an older age than he was introduced because he'll be the same as Kon is taking root to be extremely wary of DC pandering to the Rebirth's crowds (because there is several, yes). I don't want great books like Teen Titans or JLO being panned because Cyborg and KOry should be Titans and that's all or Damian can't be a team player because Tim Drake is the real Robin, or some stupidity like that.
    Hawkman has his own series so I'm more inclined to read that.

    Sideways is interesting enough on his own, but I can't help thinking "why not Vibe" although they did try a series with him and it didn't last long so at least that one they tried.

    The dread is reasonable, as it happened to Nightwing.

    I don't really get the Superboy part but I'm not that invested or knowledgeable in that just yet.

    Well, at least on JLO you don't have to worry because people have been calling that the NTT generation should all be League by now. I've heard so many people wanting Raven to be in JLD.

    As for Teen Titans people are more worried about Young Justice because that's the big brand right now with the TV series and the return of long lost old favorites, but Damian's rebelious Teen Titans different enough from both Titans and Young Justice that they attract different people. It's DC's marketing I'm worried about since they can't seem to think that different characters with similar branding can exist at the same time, even though as a company they should work around that.

  12. #42
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    When it comes down to it, the thing of it is this: whatever the reasons given, be it firmly held or simply a dismissing excuse, these cool new books were largely not given their due by a fanbase who largely wouldn't give them a fair chance to prove their worth. Instead, it went back to the same pining for something specific. Mostly nostalgia.

    Also, it always gets me, when I see such polarized takes on new characters, and when I see how the general fanbase trend towards wanting new characters but not wanting to support them because they aren't their old favorites (all fans aren't the same, but I have seen more overlap here than I would like to admit). They want more "new heroes that stand on their own and aren't 'leeching' off of a legacy", without really understanding how poor such a statement is to make, but then won't support new characters, and good new ones at that, because they aren't their preferred ones. That whiplash gets me every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    As for me, I dread the return of the LOS, JSA and all the likes because I'm afraid it will stiffle creativity for the sake of playing it safe and Nostalgia for everyone. I just have to look at the Superman's forums where the idea that Jon can be fine at an older age than he was introduced because he'll be the same as Kon is taking root to be extremely wary of DC pandering to the Rebirth's crowds (because there is several, yes). I don't want great books like Teen Titans or JLO being panned because Cyborg and KOry should be Titans and that's all or Damian can't be a team player because Tim Drake is the real Robin, or some stupidity like that.
    That's kind of part of my own worry. For example, a lot of people want the Legion of Super-Heroes back. But they want it back their way and no other. They want it for their nostalgia. That leaves no room for any creativity, like you said, nor for making any appropriate updates to parts and concepts that are dated (in the poor way) or in otherwise poor taste/tone-deaf with regard to contemporary standards. These are things that would need to be taken into consideration for a LoSH return, without going being blinded by nostalgia in the process. However, if they focus only on nostalgia, or even primarily, it'll put everything else at risk. And that's not even considering how no one's "ideal LoSH" is the same, meaning the chance of pleasing those nostalgic fans on an even mildly even level is low.
    Last edited by J. D. Guy; 01-11-2019 at 07:41 AM.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Apparently, Damage #16 will be the final issue : https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01...mage-in-april/

    So, comes May, all the NAoH may be cancelled, depending on what happens to The Silencer and The Terrifics.

    I'm pretty afraid to see the solicitations now...

  14. #44
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    Since Damage is under the watch of the Justice League at The Hall of Justice. Maybe there's a slight chance that can play a role in the Justice League title. The Unexpected seems like the only New Age title that had a definitive end.....unless it was intended otherwise?
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I can’t relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    When it comes down to it, the thing of it is this: whatever the reasons given, be it firmly held or simply a dismissing excuse, these cool new books were largely not given their due by a fanbase who largely wouldn't give them a fair chance to prove their worth. Instead, it went back to the same pining for something specific. Mostly nostalgia.
    If DC did not alienate so many fans from the START-we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Unlike at Marvel-fans here were willing to at least try these books or glace through them. I heard very little negative about these books.
    Also for some fans it came down to this why support these guys when you supported all the new folks before them from Kyle to Cassandra to see them crapped on. Especially Titans franchise.

    They want more "new heroes that stand on their own and aren't 'leeching' off of a legacy", without really understanding how poor such a statement is to make, but then won't support new characters, and good new ones at that, because they aren't their preferred ones. That whiplash gets me every time.
    Before you lecture fans make sure you have a lecture for comic book stores. Who did not order the books or yelled to Bleedingcool "DC/Marvel needs to give me books to sell" & badmouth these books and others.
    Meanwhile new characters at other companies are not having issues selling. Valiant is not having issues nor Lion Forge or Black Mask or Image or Kaboom or Boom.

    If folks don't want legacies-they sure are doing a BAD job of showing it.
    Tim Drake, Conner Kent, Bart, Ms Marvel, Supergirl & Cassandra Cain have way more solo issues than a LOT of guys who are not linked to a franchise.

    The Amazon top 100 Teen books under the super hero banner does NOT features ONE DC Rebirth title-Morrison's Green Lantern. Meanwhile My Heroic Academia and Marvel dominates.
    On Kindle-Dc got its behind HANDED to them by Ms Marvel, Gwen, Shuri, Riri, Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl, Jane Foster & Carol Danvers. If it wasn't for Doomsday Clock & Heroes in Crisis & Batman-Dc wouldn't have had a book in the top 100 of Kindle.

    The most wished listed book on Amazon is Batman White Knight, Mr Miracle & Mile Morales. Marvel kills them again. Only Batman & Supersons Rebirth is listed. Every other DC book is from pre New 52 era.

    Right now Dc is facing an issue. They have ALIENATED too many folks and while it look "safe" in the floppies-everywhere else they are getting beat. And the sad thing is the books that are attracting interest in DC are those that feature the very characters DC has trashed or from previous eras.

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