Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2019

[JimRaynor55]

ENDGAME thoughts:

spoilers:

Really liked the movie overall, but also really disappointed that they basically fridged Nat in the same place they fridged Gamora. Both of them stayed dead at the end. I was really looking forward to seeing Nat in this movie given her emphasis in the trailers and the Russos’ promise that she’d have more to do than in Infinity War. I have to say that the writers, and Scarlett, delivered in the first act. I liked how Nat was shown as the most resilient Avenger, basically leading the remnants of the team while Tony quit, Thor got fat, and Clint deteriorated into a murderous vigilante. Dramatically, she was well handled there. But then Vormir happened, again. Nat had come so far to redeem herself, to clear the red in her ledger on her way to finally getting that solo movie that fans have been clamoring for, only to sacrifice herself in a rather permanent way. Heroic? Yes. Disappointing and wasteful? Definitely IMO. I would’ve rather seen Nat and Clint go all the way to the edge only to find some way out that didn’t involve one of them taking a dive. And while I like Clint too, I would’ve preferred that Nat live instead of him. Imagine if Nat was going to make the sacrifice play, only for Clint (whose brutal murder spree and mental deterioration was downplayed past it’s introductory scene) to do it instead. He’d acknowledge what he’d become and that he and Nat had gone in opposite directions in how they’ve dealt with loss. He’d tell her, despite her disbelief and protests, that she was indeed worth it. That he couldn’t go back and neither should she. Then Natasha could take this additional loss as fuel for a vengeful comeback in the climax, leading the other MCU ladies and kicking ass as the first female Avenger. It just felt wrong in the actual movie when they did that triumphant all-female team up, comprised of multiple supporting characters (including Mantis who I’m not sure can even fight), without Natasha who was the most prominent female MCU character for almost a decade. Did she even fight anyone in this movie aside from her brief tussle with Clint for the right to die? Tony got an emotional and fitting end, fighting and dying like a hero. He deservedly received everyone’s acknowledgment during an extended funeral scene. On the other hand, Natasha made a quiet sacrifice, with nothing but brief mourning by her team before the final battle. It just felt symptomatic of the under appreciation Natasha has received in real life with how people regard her importance and depth of character. Really don’t know why they chose to go this direction, when the solo Black Widow Movie is coming up and Scarlett is one of the MCU’s biggest names who’s still more than willing to stay on. A prequel solo movie, creatively confined by her Endgame death, seems so much less appealing to me than a straight BW movie set in the present. Sure, show the origin. In flashbacks the way that Black Panther and Captain Marvel did it. It just seems like a massive waste of a good character who was finally about to receive her time in the spotlight.

end of spoilers

[gurkle]

spoilers:

It almost felt to me like greenlighting her movie was a way of giving themselves "permission" to send her off that way. Because if this was the last we saw of her, it would be even more unsatisfying and the backlash would be (understandably) huge. Now they can always claim her story isn't over yet, even if the movie turns out to be only a prequel. I suppose the filmmakers will say that the disappointment of leaving her out of the final fight is part of the point, leaving out the characters who died for real is a way of showing that there are "stakes" to bringing everyone back. It feels like a cheat though in a battle that involves characters who actually did die already. Even if she'd been there in a time-displaced version, or even an evil version, it would have been more satisfying.

end of spoilers

[Winterboy]

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[Winterboy]

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[Winterboy]

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Perfect...

[Punisher007]

spoilers:

Iron Man's death was handled really well, and was a satisfying (if tragic) conclusion to his MCU arc. Black Widow's death, was not however. It was very underwhelming and even Yondu's death in GOTG 2 was handled better.

end of spoilers

[Winterboy]

spoilers:

Iron Man's death was handled really well, and was a satisfying (if tragic) conclusion to his MCU arc. Black Widow's death, was not however. It was very underwhelming and even Yondu's death in GOTG 2 was handled better.

end of spoilers

I couldn't agree more, my friend.

[Punisher007]

spoilers:

It also didn't help that she died in the exact same place for pretty much the same reason as Gamora in IW. So not only was it a "I've seen this before already" thing, but I didn't even like it when they did it with Gamora, and neither of them came back either. How many female heroes have to die for the sake of that freaking stone?

end of spoilers

[Whizbang]

spoilers:

It also didn't help that she died in the exact same place for pretty much the same reason as Gamora in IW. So not only was it a "I've seen this before already" thing, but I didn't even like it when they did it with Gamora, and neither of them came back either. How many female heroes have to die for the sake of that freaking stone?

end of spoilers

spoilers:

The directors and writers literally killed off the first female Avenger and the first female Guardian in the exact same way and then conveniently couldn't come up with a way to undo the fridging they inflicted on both women.

end of spoilers

[JimRaynor55]

spoilers:

I just don’t get it because these are the same writers and directors who did so well with her in The Winter Soldier. It reminds me of Joss Whedon, who knocked it out of the park with her in the first Avengers only to slip up with the controversial romance and sterility plot in Age of Ultron. The same creators who produced character-defining work with Natasha, the stories that made me a fan of her character in the first place, don’t seem to know how to follow through with her.

end of spoilers

[GodThor]

spoilers:

yeah, I didn't like Nat's death either. I understand that sacrificing herself for her best friend is noble and all but they could have handled it better. I guess her solo movie will be prequel.

end of spoilers

[OOTCS]

ENDGAME thoughts:

spoilers:

Really liked the movie overall, but also really disappointed that they basically fridged Nat in the same place they fridged Gamora. Both of them stayed dead at the end. I was really looking forward to seeing Nat in this movie given her emphasis in the trailers and the Russos’ promise that she’d have more to do than in Infinity War. I have to say that the writers, and Scarlett, delivered in the first act. I liked how Nat was shown as the most resilient Avenger, basically leading the remnants of the team while Tony quit, Thor got fat, and Clint deteriorated into a murderous vigilante. Dramatically, she was well handled there. But then Vormir happened, again. Nat had come so far to redeem herself, to clear the red in her ledger on her way to finally getting that solo movie that fans have been clamoring for, only to sacrifice herself in a rather permanent way. Heroic? Yes. Disappointing and wasteful? Definitely IMO. I would’ve rather seen Nat and Clint go all the way to the edge only to find some way out that didn’t involve one of them taking a dive. And while I like Clint too, I would’ve preferred that Nat live instead of him. Imagine if Nat was going to make the sacrifice play, only for Clint (whose brutal murder spree and mental deterioration was downplayed past it’s introductory scene) to do it instead. He’d acknowledge what he’d become and that he and Nat had gone in opposite directions in how they’ve dealt with loss. He’d tell her, despite her disbelief and protests, that she was indeed worth it. That he couldn’t go back and neither should she. Then Natasha could take this additional loss as fuel for a vengeful comeback in the climax, leading the other MCU ladies and kicking ass as the first female Avenger. It just felt wrong in the actual movie when they did that triumphant all-female team up, comprised of multiple supporting characters (including Mantis who I’m not sure can even fight), without Natasha who was the most prominent female MCU character for almost a decade. Did she even fight anyone in this movie aside from her brief tussle with Clint for the right to die? Tony got an emotional and fitting end, fighting and dying like a hero. He deservedly received everyone’s acknowledgment during an extended funeral scene. On the other hand, Natasha made a quiet sacrifice, with nothing but brief mourning by her team before the final battle. It just felt symptomatic of the under appreciation Natasha has received in real life with how people regard her importance and depth of character. Really don’t know why they chose to go this direction, when the solo Black Widow Movie is coming up and Scarlett is one of the MCU’s biggest names who’s still more than willing to stay on. A prequel solo movie, creatively confined by her Endgame death, seems so much less appealing to me than a straight BW movie set in the present. Sure, show the origin. In flashbacks the way that Black Panther and Captain Marvel did it. It just seems like a massive waste of a good character who was finally about to receive her time in the spotlight.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I agree with all of this. I appreciate that Clint did his best, but I can't help being resentful of the fact that the narrative valued his life over hers. She had so much potential as a character, and I was really looking forward to her solo movie, but right now, I'm kind of wondering what the point is. I know that there's a lot of her history that's worth telling, but I'm a lot less enthusiastic about watching her in some spy drama when I know that her life will be cut short exactly when she might have the opportunity to find some happiness.

end of spoilers

[Muffin Crud]

So, so disappointed. I loved a lot about the movie but doing what they did to Natasha totally sullied it.

[beetee]

spoilers:

If Clint had sacrificed himself, it would be too close to Tony Stark's big moment (family man sacrifices happiness to save universe, widow cries). So yeah, while I think it wasn't a good look for Marvel, fridging two family men in the same movie wouldn't work narratively. .... Would anyone have objected if it had been Tony Stark and Pepper Potts (Gwyneth Paltrow) had taken the leap instead?

end of spoilers

[Matternativ]

ENDGAME thoughts:

spoilers:

Really liked the movie overall, but also really disappointed that they basically fridged Nat in the same place they fridged Gamora. Both of them stayed dead at the end. I was really looking forward to seeing Nat in this movie given her emphasis in the trailers and the Russos’ promise that she’d have more to do than in Infinity War. I have to say that the writers, and Scarlett, delivered in the first act. I liked how Nat was shown as the most resilient Avenger, basically leading the remnants of the team while Tony quit, Thor got fat, and Clint deteriorated into a murderous vigilante. Dramatically, she was well handled there. But then Vormir happened, again. Nat had come so far to redeem herself, to clear the red in her ledger on her way to finally getting that solo movie that fans have been clamoring for, only to sacrifice herself in a rather permanent way. Heroic? Yes. Disappointing and wasteful? Definitely IMO. I would’ve rather seen Nat and Clint go all the way to the edge only to find some way out that didn’t involve one of them taking a dive. And while I like Clint too, I would’ve preferred that Nat live instead of him. Imagine if Nat was going to make the sacrifice play, only for Clint (whose brutal murder spree and mental deterioration was downplayed past it’s introductory scene) to do it instead. He’d acknowledge what he’d become and that he and Nat had gone in opposite directions in how they’ve dealt with loss. He’d tell her, despite her disbelief and protests, that she was indeed worth it. That he couldn’t go back and neither should she. Then Natasha could take this additional loss as fuel for a vengeful comeback in the climax, leading the other MCU ladies and kicking ass as the first female Avenger. It just felt wrong in the actual movie when they did that triumphant all-female team up, comprised of multiple supporting characters (including Mantis who I’m not sure can even fight), without Natasha who was the most prominent female MCU character for almost a decade. Did she even fight anyone in this movie aside from her brief tussle with Clint for the right to die? Tony got an emotional and fitting end, fighting and dying like a hero. He deservedly received everyone’s acknowledgment during an extended funeral scene. On the other hand, Natasha made a quiet sacrifice, with nothing but brief mourning by her team before the final battle. It just felt symptomatic of the under appreciation Natasha has received in real life with how people regard her importance and depth of character. Really don’t know why they chose to go this direction, when the solo Black Widow Movie is coming up and Scarlett is one of the MCU’s biggest names who’s still more than willing to stay on. A prequel solo movie, creatively confined by her Endgame death, seems so much less appealing to me than a straight BW movie set in the present. Sure, show the origin. In flashbacks the way that Black Panther and Captain Marvel did it. It just seems like a massive waste of a good character who was finally about to receive her time in the spotlight.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I agree to a point. But the minute I realized the two of them went to Vormire I knew what was gonna happen. Clint didn't even show up in Infinity War and even had his scene in Winter Soldier scrapped while Nat has been prominent in In Infinity War, Winter Soldier and Iron Man 2, the former being the main reason it was obvious to me she would be the one to take the Fall. I get that it is disappointing but if you look at it from the Perspective that the only OG MCU Avenger who was only name dropped the last time, gets back into the spotlight just to fall off a cliff midway to his Comeback it would have just been dumb Storytelling.

end of spoilers