Natasha Romanov: Black Widow Appreciation 2019

[Winterboy]

Love!

Sigh. Need moar.

As. Soon. As. Possible.

[Winterboy]

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[Godlike13]

I'm not worried because of the movies they'll keep trying.

[responsarbre]

spoilers:

It almost felt to me like greenlighting her movie was a way of giving themselves "permission" to send her off that way. Because if this was the last we saw of her, it would be even more unsatisfying and the backlash would be (understandably) huge. Now they can always claim her story isn't over yet, even if the movie turns out to be only a prequel. I suppose the filmmakers will say that the disappointment of leaving her out of the final fight is part of the point, leaving out the characters who died for real is a way of showing that there are "stakes" to bringing everyone back. It feels like a cheat though in a battle that involves characters who actually did die already. Even if she'd been there in a time-displaced version, or even an evil version, it would have been more satisfying.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

My thoughts exactly. I think my biggest disappointment as a Black Widow fan is that it cuts off most of her franchise potential. Even if the Black Widow movie did end up being a prequel like it was always rumored, if it was a surprise hit then Marvel could have sequels set in the current day. Now it feels more likely that the movie could end up being a one-off, meaning that her push in the comics is probably going to end when her movie comes out. 2020 might be the last opportunity for a Black Widow ongoing for quite some time.

end of spoilers

[Winterboy]

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[Winterboy]

Alex Maleev...

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[JimRaynor55]

spoilers:

My thoughts exactly. I think my biggest disappointment as a Black Widow fan is that it cuts off most of her franchise potential. Even if the Black Widow movie did end up being a prequel like it was always rumored, if it was a surprise hit then Marvel could have sequels set in the current day. Now it feels more likely that the movie could end up being a one-off, meaning that her push in the comics is probably going to end when her movie comes out. 2020 might be the last opportunity for a Black Widow ongoing for quite some time.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Yeah, what they did to Natasha in Endgame was not just wasteful but very poorly timed. It took years to get around to a Black Widow solo movie. Endgame would’ve been a great way to showcase Natasha and give her solo film a boost. They could’ve given her a standout role and emphasized her evolution into a leader among the Avengers. That was very subtly implied in Age of Ultron and Infinity War. It was more clearly shown in Endgame but still mostly left offscreen during the five years that the movie skipped over. They could’ve given Natasha some real applause-worthy moments like what Cap got when he picked up Mjolnir. She could’ve shown up at the end to lead the all-female team up that Marvel clearly wanted woke points for. This isn’t too much to ask for. Cheerful surprises where she subverted expectations and turned the tables on the bad guys were a big part of her intended appeal in the first Avengers movie. Where was the Natasha who kicked ass and stood shoulder to shoulder with her superpowered teammates? Where was the Natasha who could play a key role all the way through the climax? Heck, where was the Natasha who simply showed up on screen and got to say her lines? People have actually measured the screen time and number of spoken lines in the previous Avengers films. In the first Avengers movie and in Age of Ultron, a good argument could be made that she was a lead character because her screen time and lines where right behind Tony and Steve. Natasha was also clearly the secondary lead of The Winter Soldier. Her screen time declined in Civil War and Infinity War, understandably because of the glut of new characters. However, we were teased with a larger role and story arc for Natasha in Endgame to make up for that. Well as it turns out, people have quantified the screen time for the primary heroic characters in Endgame and Natasha came in dead last. Behind even Nebula and Rocket Raccoon who aren’t even Avengers. According to the screenwriters, they didn’t want to “take away” Natasha’s sacrifice on Vormir after receiving input from their visual effects producer. But by “giving” it to Natasha, they took away from her future in the MCU. They took away from all of the moments she could’ve, and probably would’ve had in that same movie had she lived according to the previous draft. Not a good trade at all IMO, and I don’t know of anyone who was begging to see things turn out this way. The screenwriters justified it by saying that by dying there, Natasha’s story was complete because she got to clear her ledger and protect her found family. I find that shortsighted if not a little demeaning toward her as a character. Really, Natasha hadn’t already cleared the red away with all of her heroic actions over the years? It’s not a matter of whether Natasha believes it (it was an ongoing source of emotional tension to be mined in future stories) but whether it was actually “true”. We’re talking about someone who has helped save the world multiple times over. Yet the story ultimately treated her as less than a hero until she died. And really, how was her story “complete”? I find it sad that they couldn’t think of anything to do with Natasha besides killing her. She’s been fleshed out over the course many movies. She’s developed relationships with almost everyone else on the team. And in Infinity War, we were teased with the idea of Black Widow as leader of the Avengers. The writers of Infinity War thought they were giving her a heroic moment by making her die for others. But IMO, it would’ve been way more heroic and empowering to challenge her to live. Something feels off to me about her “paying back” the debt she owed to Clint from all those years ago by dying for him. Friendship shouldn’t be about zero-sum exchanges and the Avengers supposedly don’t “trade lives”. Her death unintentionally implies that she was worth less than him, not even worthy of living except to ensure that he would later survive despite turning into a mass murdering, Punisher-level vigilante. Yes, Clint had a family. However, the movie never even examined whether he was still that once-stable family man, or the fact that Natasha had taken an opposite and much more positive trajectory after The Snap. I would’ve much preferred it if Clint, or Steve, or anyone else had affirmed her heroism and worth to the team. If they had emphasized that she had long since paid off any debts and that she had grown into the heart of the team (and not a disposable member to be sacrificed for the good of others). How would Natasha handle leadership of the Avengers, especially without Steve and Tony after Endgame? How does a former Russian assassin with a checkered past handle being the face of the world’s preeminent superhero team? Is it even good for someone with her reputation to be in that role while newer, more PR-friendly members such as Captain Marvel are joining the team? How does Natasha handle issues of legacy? This was a big part of Tony’s arc, and it was touched upon in a rather controversial way with Natasha’s sterility plot in Age of Ultron. How would she deal with a wave of new Red Room-trained assassins modeled after her past “success” in a hypothetical solo movie? These are interesting questions to me and they had so many more storytelling possibilities for the future. But instead, Endgame asserted that she had always been about the red in her ledger and her debt to Clint, things from her past that had been introduced ages ago in just her second MCU appearance. It was extremely short sighted of the writers to cut Natasha’s future off because they couldn’t envision moving on from the few memes that defined her past.

end of spoilers

[Winterboy]

Secret Avengers.

I really miss this book.

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[Winterboy]

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Natasha and Melissa

[Winterboy]

Black Widow by Flaviano.

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[Captain Craig]

I like the idea of what a Black Widow movie franchise could look like.

spoilers:

Black Widow 1: pre-Iron Man 2 that shows Budapest, developed relationship w/Clint, how she converted to SHIELD, accumulated 'RED' in her ledger and some good Fury/Coulson goodness. Black Widow 2: exists post-Avengers('12) and pre-Infinity War. Perhaps we can get some more Maria Hill as well. Black Widow 3: exists post-Infinity War and develops that 5yr gap we now know of in Endgame We get to keep visiting a star of the "original MCU" years while allowing the newest stars to forge their own story and path.

end of spoilers

[Winterboy]

Joe Bennett's MCU Black Widow.

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[millernumber1]

Joe Bennett's MCU Black Widow.

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I do like me some Joe Bennett.

[Winterboy]

From twitter...


Any chances to see Winter Soldier and Black Widow in Savage Avengers?

Oh yeaaah (Gerry Duggan)

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[juan678]