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  1. #166
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    That should be easy to answer no. If she does not accept that then they should not be together. That has always been the guiding force of his life. If they love each other she should accept she is second to gotham and that vow and be okay with it. It does not mean he bruce does not love her he does but that is his first priority any woman who has a relationship should know that going in especially her. That is why kings run makes no sense asking questions that are totally weird if you know batman you know gotham the vow and mission comes before anything else

  2. #167
    Spectacular Member Huntsman1117's Avatar
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    All I can do right now is speculate. We have to assume that they've been through the process of trying to make it work as partners many times before with the same result, as everything pre-Crisis and pre-52 is now all apparently cannon. At this point, it would be really lame if all of this drama in King's run was all for nothing. In other words, Batman & Catwoman had better end up together by the end of issue 100, or this was all a waste of time.

  3. #168
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman1117 View Post
    . . . as everything pre-Crisis and pre-52 is now all apparently cannon . . .
    Really?

    Has DC come out and said EVERYTHING from before the New52 is "canon"?
    Does that mean EVERYTHING that happened in the New52 that contradicted things from before Flashpoint no longer applies?

    I'm not sure how much of what you claim about that is actually true or just wishful drinking.
    (Hell, I don't know if everyone working on comic books for DC even agrees any more on what is and isn't "canon".)

  4. #169
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman1117 View Post
    All I can do right now is speculate. We have to assume that they've been through the process of trying to make it work as partners many times before with the same result, as everything pre-Crisis and pre-52 is now all apparently cannon. At this point, it would be really lame if all of this drama in King's run was all for nothing. In other words, Batman & Catwoman had better end up together by the end of issue 100, or this was all a waste of time.
    That's a question I've had for a while now and was wondering if it was gonna be a case of simply "retconning/new creator liberties" or if it was a purposeful decision that's important to the narrative.

    Namely being how in the New 52, it's established Catwoman doesn't know Batman's identity, but then in her first appearance in Rebirth, she not only knows, but has apparently know right from the beginning. Combined with all the street vs. boat debates, the references to both pre-Crisis and pre-Flashpoint, and just how intricate all the elements in this story have been, I'm wondering if there will actually be some kind of connection/ramifications for it, or if its just following DC loose canon and just taking whatever elements it wants as canon.
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  5. #170
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    That's a question I've had for a while now and was wondering if it was gonna be a case of simply "retconning/new creator liberties" or if it was a purposeful decision that's important to the narrative.

    Namely being how in the New 52, it's established Catwoman doesn't know Batman's identity, but then in her first appearance in Rebirth, she not only knows, but has apparently know right from the beginning.
    They actually made it seem as if Selina knew Batman = Bruce Wayne towards the end of the New52/DCYou run (in one of the Frank Tieri-written issues).

  6. #171
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    They actually made it seem as if Selina knew Batman = Bruce Wayne towards the end of the New52/DCYou run (in one of the Frank Tieri-written issues).
    I'll need to find those, I just recently read through Forever Evil, and then went to check out a bunch of her other New 52 appearances, and everything I could see implied that she didn't know, and I would assume in those Tieri issues they probably wrote it like her finding out rather than always knowing like its portrayed in King's run.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the answer regarding the retcon would just end up being the simple Rebirth domino effect resulting in Bruce and Selina having new/altered memories.
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  7. #172
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I'll need to find those, I just recently read through Forever Evil, and then went to check out a bunch of her other New 52 appearances, and everything I could see implied that she didn't know, and I would assume in those Tieri issues they probably wrote it like her finding out rather than always knowing like its portrayed in King's run.
    I didn't read it that way myself, but . . .

    As for Selina's New52 run, I really only got into it when Genevieve Valentine's run started (which I really enjoyed, even though it wasn't "traditional" Catwoman). Before that, it was only sporadic issues I bought.

  8. #173

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    At no point in N52 did Selina know Bruce was Batman.

    As for what is and isn't canon as of Rebirth...it's definitely messy and I don't think even DC knows right now. As far as the Batman book under King goes though, it seems quite obvious to me that King has decided that everything is canon, contradictions be damned. And I'm fine with that, in general. There are myriad things I believe King should have put more thought into, but at the end of the day there's simply way too much crap to bother tip-toeing around all of it in the futile effort of making it all align perfectly.

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelerInTheDark View Post
    At no point in N52 did Selina know Bruce was Batman.

    As for what is and isn't canon as of Rebirth...it's definitely messy and I don't think even DC knows right now. As far as the Batman book under King goes though, it seems quite obvious to me that King has decided that everything is canon, contradictions be damned. And I'm fine with that, in general. There are myriad things I believe King should have put more thought into, but at the end of the day there's simply way too much crap to bother tip-toeing around all of it in the futile effort of making it all align perfectly.
    Yeah, that's why I don't fault him if he's just doing whatever he wants continuity wise because so many others do the same thing and its just the nature of dealing with a confusing comic chronology like this.

    I just also think, due to how intricate King's plotting and connecting has been, the loose chronology could just as easily be something he's doing on purpose to pay off later in his narrative. The street vs. boat debate especially is the prime example of this. I'm curious to see if that is a route he is taking, and if not that's okay too.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman1117 View Post
    All I can do right now is speculate. We have to assume that they've been through the process of trying to make it work as partners many times before with the same result, as everything pre-Crisis and pre-52 is now all apparently cannon. At this point, it would be really lame if all of this drama in King's run was all for nothing. In other words, Batman & Catwoman had better end up together by the end of issue 100, or this was all a waste of time.
    It's an inevitability that Bruce and Selina will get married. If not now, then eventually, because the demand is there. We might have to wait 'till Didio is gone though.

    I still want to know if Batman annual#2 is a flash-forward or not. If King's run ends with more heartbreak and the story not going anywhere, I'll assume it was written by King as way of pleasing himself knowing he'd never be allowed to reach the resolution he wanted under the current editorial regime.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 04-20-2019 at 02:34 AM.

  11. #176
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    So I am still kind of angry about the whole prelude to the not wedding and here we are almost a year later how much closer are they to fixing thing

  12. #177
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelerInTheDark View Post
    At no point in N52 did Selina know Bruce was Batman.
    From Catwoman #49 (April 2016), towards the tail-end of the New52/DCYou run (and during the stretch when Jim Gordon was robo-bunny-Batman and Bruce didn't remember having been Batman),




    Not a definite confirmation that Selina knew Bruce was Batman, but it would seem to imply it. (Otherwise, why contact Bruce Wayne for help to deal with The Penguin and others involved in all this? Had there been any serious reference to a Bruce & Selina relationship during the New52 where she wasn't aware of his dual-identity?)

  13. #178
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    From Catwoman #49 (April 2016), towards the tail-end of the New52/DCYou run (and during the stretch when Jim Gordon was robo-bunny-Batman and Bruce didn't remember having been Batman),




    Not a definite confirmation that Selina knew Bruce was Batman, but it would seem to imply it. (Otherwise, why contact Bruce Wayne for help to deal with The Penguin and others involved in all this? Had there been any serious reference to a Bruce & Selina relationship during the New52 where she wasn't aware of his dual-identity?)
    Early New 52 I don't think Selina had any kind of relationship with Bruce beyond kissing him, but Valentine and Tieri seemed to act like they had some familiarity with each other.

  14. #179
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Early New 52 I don't think Selina had any kind of relationship with Bruce beyond kissing him, but Valentine and Tieri seemed to act like they had some familiarity with each other.
    I thought early New52 Selina didn't really have any relationship with "Bruce"; just hot sex with a Batman who always kept his mask on. (But after that first issue, I stopped reading the series for a while and only later started to follow it.)

  15. #180

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    Here's how it goes:

    In N52, during Winick's run, Selina first met Bruce Wayne at a club. She did not know he was Batman. Throughout Winick's and Nocenti's runs, she continued to not know, though she had run-ins with Batman many times.

    Then she meets him again in Valentine's run, and this was during the time Bruce had lost his memory and was running an orphanage/home for troubled kids. Here, Selina knew him as she remarks upon his change, but again obviously did not know he was Batman as she continued to wonder where Batman was afterward.

    She asks him for help in Tieri's run, and here Bruce was STILL suffering from amnesia. Selina, despite having history with Bruce and having met him not too long ago, seemingly forgot this after Valentine's run (just talk it up to Tieri). She still, though, showed no sign that she knew he was Batman.

    Then fastforward several months or so to when she shows up in King's run and she has now known for a long time thanks to the timelines being sort of melded post-Rebirth.

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