View Poll Results: Should the LoSH be it's own seperate property or more entwined with Superman?

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  • Yes!

    24 72.73%
  • No!

    9 27.27%
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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Should the Legion of Superheroes always be part of the Superman franchise?

    I came up with this dilemma, when I read the suggestion a poster had on this board for having Jon Kent as Superboy being the leader of the LoSH when they (eventually) return. I first shrugged off this idea, discarding it as silly. However, when I thought about it more and more, it actually made a lot of sense. Historically it is commonplace for an iteration of the Legion to feature a member of the Superman family. Whether it be Superman as a young boy, Supergirl, or one of the their distant descendants.

    Nevertheless, this leads me to my main question: Should DC make the Legion of Superheroes part of the Superman franchise? The comic book industry is not as prosperous as it was when the Legion were last popular in the 70's and 80's. Considering the absence of the LoSH for almost the past decade, and their convoluted history, it is possible the when the team returns, new readers and more casual comic book fans, will simply not be interested in the Legion of Superheroes. Making them more engrained in the Superman brand and mythos, and more synonymous with the Superman character might help them become seem more appealing to potential new readers.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 01-04-2019 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    Voted "Yes" but to be more exact I feel that Superman should always be part of the Legion but the Legion shouldn't necessarily always be part of Superman.

    The team started as a Superboy spinoff and for more than half it's existence had Superboy as a member and even when the Titans were created it was the Legion that Supergirl joined. Mon-El was a Superman character in powers and name, who was a major Legion member. Brainiac 5 another major member is connected to one of Superman's greatest foes. So to me the team has always existed as a branch of the Superman Universe more then the DCU.

    But even if they make Jon a Legion member, I wouldn't want his interactions with the DCU to revolve solely around that fact and role.

  3. #3
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Okay, so this is tough. My intimidate reaction is "yes. Obviously. They have 'directly inspired by Superman' in their back story." As a team made of either alien immigrants or Earthlings of alien heritage that all use their natural talents and abilities to help their neighbors because it's the right thing to do, they perpetuate the basic concept of Superman in stereo. That's kind of hard to overlook especially when one of Superman's nicknames is "man of tomorrow."

    Their history and setting leave them in such a position where they're more than able to function without a callback to Superman. The Legion on a conceptually level takes all of the family, boarding school, teen, and young adult ideas of X-Men at its best and most popular, and it gives us the simple idea of "this is the future as it could be" as opposed to the perpetual depression that X-Men can find itself in (a sentiment I feel would go down quite well today). That on its own is a winner of a concept. No Superman needed.

    However, I've come to the conclusion that times are in fact tough, and the Legion has had a lot of starts and stops, so maybe anchoring them ( more directly) to Superman as a base line isn't the worst idea. Great as they are, they are an overwhelming concept that almost never makes it to the spotlight of the public eye. And even then, the only Legion associated characters really being pushed into the public eye are the ones directly linked to Superman: Brainiac 5 and Mon-El.

    So, yeah, from where I'm standing, and how I feel presently, the touchstone of Superman and his world need to a pretty strong part of the equation. The Legion is a sea of imaginative characters set in a far removed future. That's one of its great strengths and weaknesses. Having Superman as a direct inspiration, leaning into characters heavily associated with Superman gives you and hand railing to hold onto, I feel.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Yes, because as a new reader, if Legion was never involved in Superman history, I wouldn't even know about them. I would've thought they're fringe DC Characters unrelated to the main earth.

  5. #5
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    I don't like to deal in absolutes, so saying they should be part of Superman seems like they're being forced to stay within the Superman bubble and they don't have the option to exist outside the bubble. However, I believe there are a lot of creative aproaches to how the LSH relates to Superman's mythology so there's still a lot of flexibility to be had. And the Superman family was always the thing that brought me into the Legion stories. Besides which, I want all the past continuity to still have happened somehow--which means that Kal-El and Kara Zor-El must have interacted with the Legionnaires in some way.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the aged up Jon feeling alienated from his old life and friends going to train with the Legion in the future as a call back to the role they are said to have played in Clark's childhood. Giving him a group of peers that he doesn't feel all that different from. Basically Clark telling Jon, this helped me when I was your age, it may help you. If they are keeping the older Legion seen in Doomsday Clock (which seems to be Geoff Johns preference) going forward, you could introduce Jon to a group of younger recruits so it's not a kid hanging out with his Dad's friends.

    This would keep the book within the Superman franchise, allowing for overlap with Superman and Supergirl, etc. You could even bring Damian along for some stories.

  7. #7
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I voted 'no'.

    I love the LoSH. I love Superman. I love Superman being an important part of the Legion, but I don't want it to become a sister title. It absolutely shouldn't be the place to drop Jon Kent.

    I honestly want to see the Legion grow as a concept. I want to see it be about the bleeding edge of the future. Youth in revolt. A generation fighting for its place at the table, which I think would resonate very well nowadays.

    You can have adventures with Superman, when he was a boy, in the future with the Legion without making that the entire selling point.

    Honestly I'd push the whole Legion narrative further into the future and see what new doors open up.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    I voted yes. There is one super hero that can have it all and that hero is Superman. He can have adventures in New Genesis and the 30th Century. I love the fact that he visits the future and finally feels like the rest of the world has caught up.There is something so good and kitchy about Superman and the Adult Legion stories from the 60's. I think Superman is so great when he encounters versions of himself from across the multiverse and time. Really you can have it both ways. There are some realities where Superman has mutton chops and is in the Mike Grell Legion. There is another reality where everyone has crew cuts. There is a group of Legion heroes lost at the end of time confronting Element Lad. (I want Mike Allred to get on a legion book tomorrow.) On the other hand, Peter Parker doesn't have to be Spiderman. Superman can be Calvin Ellis. The Marvel Cinematic Universe can exist without a Fantastic Four and X-Men. I read the recent Silver Surfer run by Dan Slott and Mike Allred, the Fantastic Four are hardly essential to that story. They really could make a great Silver Surfer movie without the Fantastic Four, so why not the Legion?

  9. #9

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    Having Superman meet them as a kid/teen is a great introduction to them. They should be separate from the Superman group of books.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I think there should always be a tie. The degree and influence of that tie I think depends. Mainly on if the concept is strong enough to stand alone. When it is that tie can be for the most part fleeting and just in the background. For decades it was able to stand alone. I don't think its there anymore. So right now in the present I think a significant Superman presence in some regard is needed. It doesn't have to be forever, with any luck, the Legion finds its niche again and can branch off once more. Its just that I feel all recent history shows they're popularity simply is not at the level it once was anymore to do that. How many times have they been rebooted to minimal results? At some point in time they got booted out the door. They need to get their foot back in first, instead of trying to stroll right back in.

    Ideally I'd do this with either Superman or Supergirl, they're the only two I'm interested in their dynamic with the team. But, that's just me.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-05-2019 at 01:39 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  11. #11
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want the to see the Superman character as the driving force of every plot (or the leader of the team for that matter), but I'd have them there. The simple fact that they're from the 21st century as well as being the only character you immediately know allows for someone there to be just as bewildered, confused, and in awe alongside as the reader/viewer (Morrison did it with Kyle during his JLA days). Once you make Lighting Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl as generally known as an Ice Man, Cyclops, and Jean Grey then do a good deal of branching out because the Legion is freakin' money in the bank.

    What I'm genuinely hoping for out of an upcoming Legion book of any sort is more or less DC's answer to of Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie Young Avengers from 2013 or Morrison's New X-Men.

    Superman shouldn't be looked at as something shackling them or trapping them, but rather an IP that's using its inherent appeal and understanding to provide an incubator for them and a foundation while they build themselves up to go out on their own again.

    Just realized the Legion is basically a 20 something who has to move back into their parent's house while they rebuild themselves for financial stability. Maybe my strongest metaphor all year and it's only been 5 days lol
    Last edited by Superlad93; 01-05-2019 at 01:50 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Haha, I dig the reference. That's a lot like what it is. Humbling, but you know what, I need a fresh start and a new chapter and to work to get back out there. This is just a step in that journey to indeed get back there again.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  13. #13
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I like the legacy of Superman remaining a large part of the Legion, but I want a weirder, harder scifi LoSH....so it's a distant legacy. That way when Superman himself makes an appearance, it's a big moment.

    Superman dropping his kid off is not the way to go.

  14. #14
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    I think it's a pretty good move (if it even is the move). Thematically and commercially for all parties involved, and has precedent. But the idea that Superman himself making an appearance being a big moment every time is kind of out the window ever since Johns returned the idea that Clark Lighting Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl are basically his mates from boarding school/college/high school, and I think all are better for it.

    Doesn't stop them from being the Legion and building their own distinct lore, and it doesn't stop him from being Superman and maintaining his lore. It's connective tissue that makes the Legion far more approachable for new readers. Like, that's a very real issue they've had, and it's only been compounded by the fact that they've been out of the public eye for so long.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Honestly I think they all need to be teens again. I just think the classic characters being adults misses the point entirely. Yeah you can use new characters as the youngins, but that goes back to my problem with legacy in the first place. I would start over telling the stories of these characters from the future but also from a prism of the past. In that its Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes Redux, with young Clark. That also wouldn't preclude the idea that the older versions could show up on occasion in the present day, but the main focus being the adventures when they were all younger again. I think that's where the concept thrives.

    But hell in the end maybe they do something completely different which isn't even close what we're all theorizing.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-05-2019 at 02:15 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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