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  1. #181
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    Why? Because others are using his IDs? What's wrong with wanting it back? It is his, after all...
    Mary Jay you should start a poll. My vote would be Giant-Man.

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded Porcupine View Post
    Mary Jay you should start a poll. My vote would be Giant-Man.
    I don't feel like enough people care But thanks for the support, Porcupine
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I honestly don't see the need for it (the bold part). He was Giant-Man when he died, if he comes back I'd personally expect him to go back to being Giant-Man. It wasn't his choice to give away the suit anyway, he doesn't really know the guy running around in it and he owes him nothing.

    I know all this doesn't prevent Hank from coming back. I guess I just wish for the character to have some growth, and move a bit past his own demons. He's always been shown with an inferiority complex and often held back from what HE wanted just to please others, because he believed they were better than him or just not to displease them. I would like to see him come back and say: "Now wait a minute, this is my invention, my ID, and I want it back." I don't know, I think it would even be therapeutic for him.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I think it would show some growth on the character for once not to roll over on his belly and stand up for himself.
    While I get what you're saying, I also don't think it would be fair to Raz for Hank to just walk up and say "That's mine--give it back". Raz didn't take it from him; he was given it after proving himself worthy by helping stop Egghead. And Hank was "dead" at the time. I don't think Hank would actually come across very well to the readers by walking up and demanding his ID back from someone that has never done him any wrong.

    I think if they were going to take that approach, they'd be better to have him do it with Darren Cross for the Yellowjacket identity. Cross is a villain, so Hank demanding to take his identity back from him would look better for him.

    You are right that it doesn't necessarily have to be Hank that gets a new ID though. Just like Eric Josten became "Atlas" instead of Goliath, they could potentially come up with a new codename of Raz if they needed to.

  4. #184
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    While I get what you're saying, I also don't think it would be fair to Raz for Hank to just walk up and say "That's mine--give it back". Raz didn't take it from him; he was given it after proving himself worthy by helping stop Egghead. And Hank was "dead" at the time. I don't think Hank would actually come across very well to the readers by walking up and demanding his ID back from someone that has never done him any wrong.

    I think if they were going to take that approach, they'd be better to have him do it with Darren Cross for the Yellowjacket identity. Cross is a villain, so Hank demanding to take his identity back from him would look better for him.

    You are right that it doesn't necessarily have to be Hank that gets a new ID though. Just like Eric Josten became "Atlas" instead of Goliath, they could potentially come up with a new codename of Raz if they needed to.
    I like Raz, but I don't remember him actually doing anything to help stop Egghead. I think he helped Egghead more then he actually helped, which made it even more random when Scott gave him the suit. It was just not a very well-developed mantle change.

  5. #185
    Mighty Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    While I get what you're saying, I also don't think it would be fair to Raz for Hank to just walk up and say "That's mine--give it back". Raz didn't take it from him; he was given it after proving himself worthy by helping stop Egghead. And Hank was "dead" at the time. I don't think Hank would actually come across very well to the readers by walking up and demanding his ID back from someone that has never done him any wrong.

    I think if they were going to take that approach, they'd be better to have him do it with Darren Cross for the Yellowjacket identity. Cross is a villain, so Hank demanding to take his identity back from him would look better for him.

    You are right that it doesn't necessarily have to be Hank that gets a new ID though. Just like Eric Josten became "Atlas" instead of Goliath, they could potentially come up with a new codename of Raz if they needed to.
    Wonderful idea, and your concern for Hank Pym is greatly appreciated. I would pay top dollar just to read this.

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    While I get what you're saying, I also don't think it would be fair to Raz for Hank to just walk up and say "That's mine--give it back". Raz didn't take it from him; he was given it after proving himself worthy by helping stop Egghead. And Hank was "dead" at the time. I don't think Hank would actually come across very well to the readers by walking up and demanding his ID back from someone that has never done him any wrong.

    I think if they were going to take that approach, they'd be better to have him do it with Darren Cross for the Yellowjacket identity. Cross is a villain, so Hank demanding to take his identity back from him would look better for him.

    You are right that it doesn't necessarily have to be Hank that gets a new ID though. Just like Eric Josten became "Atlas" instead of Goliath, they could potentially come up with a new codename of Raz if they needed to.
    Raz getting a new ID or even becoming a sort of tech-whiz could work for me. I have nothing against him, I don't wish for him to be written off, I would simply prefer that the Giant-Man ID would go back to Hank. It would also be completely possible for Raz himself to give the suit back, if Hank was to come back. I know that this is something that I would do. Like a "Now that you're back, you'll be needing this again" sort of thing. It would sure be better than Hank demanding his stuff back

    The YJ identity has forever been tainted as a "bad guy" suit, thanks to the MCU and Cross taking it in the comics. I don't think I would be happy with Hank going back to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I like Raz, but I don't remember him actually doing anything to help stop Egghead. I think he helped Egghead more then he actually helped, which made it even more random when Scott gave him the suit. It was just not a very well-developed mantle change.
    I don't remember either. From what I recall, he was hired by Egghead, and got shot before being able to do much of anything. Random is the right word for the mantle change.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I like Raz, but I don't remember him actually doing anything to help stop Egghead. I think he helped Egghead more then he actually helped, which made it even more random when Scott gave him the suit. It was just not a very well-developed mantle change.
    As soon as Raz was freed from the mind control device Egghead was using on him to force him to help, Raz went to the control console to shut down the robots that Egghead was attacking Hank and Scott with. Egghead pulled out a ray gun and threatened Raz with it if he didn't back away from the console. Raz kept working anyway, and managed to shut down the robots before Egghead shot him (thankfully for Raz it was only a stun blast).

    So, as an ordinary civilian Raz risked his life and shut down the villain's robots. I'd say that was a decent heroic debut.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    it is one of my favorite versions. When he had an arsenal of items he could shrink and grow was awesome. Add that to either his yellow jacket or giant man powers. Of the two I prefer yellow jacket just because him as a flyer is more interesting and he can still grow when needed.
    I like the flying shrinking zapper angle, but the Wasp(s) have already got that angle covered, and I feel like the giant thing is more 'his' special deal.

    But I do prefer the 'Hank Pym' identity from West Coast Avengers (preferably without the terrible car mechanic jumpsuit thingie he wore back then), or something totally new, like an Ultron-armored form or one that uses a swarm of adamantium flying mechanical insect-bots or whatever.

    Totally new would be coolest, I think, just because he's got a history of creating new identities and roles, from Ant-Man to Giant-Man to Yellowjacket. Moving on to something that incorporates his newer experiences with Ultron could be interesting.

  9. #189
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    I would be cool with Hank being Giant-Man and Raz getting a new superhero identity. Rhodey started out wearing the Iron Man suit, filling in for Tony and then later became War Machine when Tony came back. Characters can take on new identities. It isn't like Raz is super attached to the Giant-Man identity anyway. Giving Raz a new identity, costume and powerset would probably make him stand out more.

    I like the Yellowjacket identity but it is probably more associated with villainy or morally tainted heroes now. It was the identity Hank had when he had a breakdown and hit Janet. It is the identity Rita Demara had when she debuted as a villain and was last seen being used by Darren Cross in the comics and movies.

    Scott Lang is Ant-Man, Eric O'Grady is Black Ant, Erik Josten is Atlas, Hawkeye and the Fosters have claim to the Goliath identity. We have two Wasps and Cassie as Stinger/Stature.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    I would be cool with Hank being Giant-Man and Raz getting a new superhero identity. Rhodey started out wearing the Iron Man suit, filling in for Tony and then later became War Machine when Tony came back. Characters can take on new identities. It isn't like Raz is super attached to the Giant-Man identity anyway. Giving Raz a new identity, costume and powerset would probably make him stand out more.
    Certainly there are no shortage of cool names for big dudes out there. Tom's using Goliath. Hank might want Giant-Man back. Raz could go to his Hindu background and use a word reflective of his culture, like Daitya, or, since the Daitya were in Hindu lore, bad-guys, opposed to the gods, Kumbhakarna, a specific Daitya who happened to be a warrior 'of good character' and not a 'bad-guy.'

  11. #191
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    As soon as Raz was freed from the mind control device Egghead was using on him to force him to help, Raz went to the control console to shut down the robots that Egghead was attacking Hank and Scott with. Egghead pulled out a ray gun and threatened Raz with it if he didn't back away from the console. Raz kept working anyway, and managed to shut down the robots before Egghead shot him (thankfully for Raz it was only a stun blast).

    So, as an ordinary civilian Raz risked his life and shut down the villain's robots. I'd say that was a decent heroic debut.
    That's definitely more then I remember him doing.

    Is it enough to warrant becoming a Superhero or just giving a guy a Giant-Man costume? Probably depends who you ask .

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's definitely more then I remember him doing.
    That's understandable--Raz big heroic moment happened pretty quickly right at the end of the story; he spent most of the issue under Egghead's mind control device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is it enough to warrant becoming a Superhero or just giving a guy a Giant-Man costume? Probably depends who you ask .
    lol. Yeah, there really doesn't seem to be any set standard for that sort of thing. Rick Jones certainly did a lot more than that back in the day before Captain America finally consented to train him as an official sidekick.

    But in this case it was Scott making the call--and clearly he was looking to pay forward the act of faith and generosity that Hank had shown towards him when he passed on the Ant-Man identity.

  13. #193
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    Why? Because others are using his IDs? What's wrong with wanting it back? It is his, after all...
    Cause it’s the most streamlined, and at this point Dr. Pym or Professor Pym is probably what people know him best as thanks to the movies. It’s just easier and clearer even to just refer to him as Dr. Henry Pym with how he’s jumped from so many identities, in addition to how many have taken over those identities. Superhero identities have kind of lost their purpose with him IMO. And his name itself is unique enough that i think it works. Plus it leaves them open to use Pym particles however one wants with him.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-26-2019 at 02:49 AM.

  14. #194
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Cause it’s the most streamlined, and at this point Dr. Pym or Professor Pym is probably what people know him best as thanks to the movies. It’s just easier and clearer even to just refer to him as Dr. Henry Pym with how he’s jumped from so many identities, in addition to how many have taken over those identities. Superhero identities have kind of lost their purpose with him IMO. And his name itself is unique enough that i think it works. Plus it leaves them open to use Pym particles however one wants with him.
    If he were to retain all his powers (shrinking and growing himself and objects around him) I guess I wouldn't mind as much that he wouldn't have a superhero ID. I like Chamber Music's comment: when Stark came back as Iron Man, Rhodey gave the codename back and went to a new ID, so this is nothing new. I don't think that Hank would ask for it, knowing the character, but I do think this Raz guy should give it back.

    As for what people know him best as because of the movies, I don't see this as an argument since casual moviegoers don't read comic books anyway, and those who read them already know who Hank is (or should, he's a founding member of the Avengers after all )
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
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  15. #195
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Certainly there are no shortage of cool names for big dudes out there. Tom's using Goliath. Hank might want Giant-Man back. Raz could go to his Hindu background and use a word reflective of his culture, like Daitya, or, since the Daitya were in Hindu lore, bad-guys, opposed to the gods, Kumbhakarna, a specific Daitya who happened to be a warrior 'of good character' and not a 'bad-guy.'
    I honestly think Giant Man should be a package deal with Ant-Man, since the world ANT is in the word GiANT. So he can be called Ant-Man when he's small to normal sized, and Ant-Man when he's big. Because there's no reason he should just shrink when he's Ant-Man and just grow when he's Giant Man.

    But really, I'm in agreement Hank at this point probably doesn't need a code name. Really everyone calls him Hank Pym anyways. DId anyone actually call him Wasp when he was Wasp?

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