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  1. #166
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Isn't he on the cover for the september issue
    He is, and he does seem to be Ultimate Giant-Man. The costume matches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    And if he does that's really bad news for 616 Pym too
    And for the Wasps!

  2. #167
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    And if he does that's really bad news for 616 Pym too
    Hank just keeps getting the shaft by Marvel. Poor guy.

  3. #168
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, everything after ROU was completely worthless as it pertained to Pymtron and the narrative potential it held. For a story that could helm its own solo book to capitalize on the second Avengers movie and Antman, we just got another Ultron incarnation out of it which not only nobody asked for but was completely unnecessary.
    Just making Ultron look like Hank and writing Hank off like that basically killed the plot potential of ROU. And instead of fixing this by bringing Hank back to salvage this through status-quo on what was ultimately them fumbling the ball, they doubled down on it. And all of this for what is selling the Scott Lang version of the character despite the fact that you could've just used Giant Man (which they ultimately did), and selling Ultron despite the fact that Pymtron is nothing like his MCU counterparts whom the GA would be familiar with. It's all so baffling because there is a story in there, it's setup for something grand with Hank, and all of it is wasted on what is chasing synergy and trends.

    Does anybody really know or care about the other YellowJacket or Giant-man? Does anybody outside of us remember they happened? Sure, there's a lot of back and forth between people on JaneThor, Sam Wilson as Captain America, and Riri Williams as Iron man (and don't give me any crap about Ironheart, she was marketed as Iron man). But where are all the people defending this or bringing it up in these debates? It doesn't seem like it worked, and it didn't seem like anybody cared they happened either. Is it better to be a dud than failure?
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  4. #169
    Fantastic Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded Porcupine View Post
    Hank just keeps getting the shaft by Marvel. Poor guy.
    I think the writing hasn't been that great for him for awhile either. I don't recall seeing a compelling character arc for Hank since his suicide attempt in the 1980s.

    Last edited by Electricmastro; 06-22-2019 at 10:55 PM.

  5. #170
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Riri Williams as Iron man (and don't give me any crap about Ironheart, she was marketed as Iron man).
    The book was called Invincible Iron Man, but there is an Ironheart logo on her first issue, the same logo now used on her current series. Don't forget, when she starred in IIM, she did have a version of Tony as an AI, so the book's title actually referred to him (and when Legacy came along, both headshots were used).

  6. #171
    Fantastic Member Flashback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    The book was called Invincible Iron Man, but there is an Ironheart logo on her first issue, the same logo now used on her current series. Don't forget, when she starred in IIM, she did have a version of Tony as an AI, so the book's title actually referred to him (and when Legacy came along, both headshots were used).
    You know most people remember Riri but never that their was another hero who was actually calling themself "Ironman" during Tony's absences.

  7. #172
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, everything after ROU was completely worthless as it pertained to Pymtron and the narrative potential it held. For a story that could helm its own solo book to capitalize on the second Avengers movie and Antman, we just got another Ultron incarnation out of it which not only nobody asked for but was completely unnecessary.
    Just making Ultron look like Hank and writing Hank off like that basically killed the plot potential of ROU. And instead of fixing this by bringing Hank back to salvage this through status-quo on what was ultimately them fumbling the ball, they doubled down on it. And all of this for what is selling the Scott Lang version of the character despite the fact that you could've just used Giant Man (which they ultimately did), and selling Ultron despite the fact that Pymtron is nothing like his MCU counterparts whom the GA would be familiar with. It's all so baffling because there is a story in there, it's setup for something grand with Hank, and all of it is wasted on what is chasing synergy and trends.

    Does anybody really know or care about the other YellowJacket or Giant-man? Does anybody outside of us remember they happened? Sure, there's a lot of back and forth between people on JaneThor, Sam Wilson as Captain America, and Riri Williams as Iron man (and don't give me any crap about Ironheart, she was marketed as Iron man). But where are all the people defending this or bringing it up in these debates? It doesn't seem like it worked, and it didn't seem like anybody cared they happened either. Is it better to be a dud than failure?
    I don’t even know who the Yellow Jacket is now and nor do I care to be honest. Raz was OK as Giant-Man but that was because he filled out the Tales to Astonish theme Spencer was going for. Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Whirlwind, Magician, Voice, Hijacker, Porcupine, etc. All the characters who appeared way back in the early 60’s when Hank had his own mag. I thought it was a nice touch on Spencer’s part. Really enjoyed his Ant-Man run and the TTA theme even if Hank was not part of it. All these characters that were Hank are still around but not Hank. His whole existence from the 60’s until now is being preserved without him. All his identities and all of his supporting cast but no Hank. Someone needs to come along and do him some justice.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Does anybody really know or care about the other YellowJacket or Giant-man?
    I didn't know there was another Yellowjacket (although I liked Rita DeMara, and wish she'd gotten a chance), but see no problem with either of those identities, or Goliath, or Ant-Man, or Wasp, being used by other heroes. It's not like any of them really defined Pym. He's outgrown them all, at least once. Moving back to one of them at this point seems like a step backwards. Even if he did wan't to call himself Giant-Man again, that doesn't mean that Raz can't *also* be Giant-Man. There's multiple Spider-Men out there, multiple Hawkeyes, multiple Wasps, etc. It's only a problem if the two characters want it to be a problem.

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I didn't know there was another Yellowjacket (although I liked Rita DeMara, and wish she'd gotten a chance), but see no problem with either of those identities, or Goliath, or Ant-Man, or Wasp, being used by other heroes. It's not like any of them really defined Pym. He's outgrown them all, at least once. Moving back to one of them at this point seems like a step backwards. Even if he did wan't to call himself Giant-Man again, that doesn't mean that Raz can't *also* be Giant-Man. There's multiple Spider-Men out there, multiple Hawkeyes, multiple Wasps, etc. It's only a problem if the two characters want it to be a problem.
    I wouldn't see this as a step backwards, personally. Hank once said in Avengers Academy that his time as Giant-Man was the time where he felt the most balanced and complete, so maybe that's part of the reason why I have a soft spot for this identity. He did a lot of good as Giant-Man, and I'd love to see come back to it. It was his ID when he "died", had been for years, so he wouldn't be moving back, he would just be continuing.

    I honestly don't see any reason to have more than one Giant-Man around, and I do think it should be Hank. Sorry for this Raz fellow, but the only reason he's around seems to be to have someone with the Giant-Man suit running around. Might as well bring the "real" one back, the one people know.

    This is just my personal opinion, and of course everybody is free to disagree with it
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

  10. #175
    Incredible Member Dreaded Porcupine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I wouldn't see this as a step backwards, personally. Hank once said in Avengers Academy that his time as Giant-Man was the time where he felt the most balanced and complete, so maybe that's part of the reason why I have a soft spot for this identity. He did a lot of good as Giant-Man, and I'd love to see come back to it. It was his ID when he "died", had been for years, so he wouldn't be moving back, he would just be continuing.

    I honestly don't see any reason to have more than one Giant-Man around, and I do think it should be Hank. Sorry for this Raz fellow, but the only reason he's around seems to be to have someone with the Giant-Man suit running around. Might as well bring the "real" one back, the one people know.

    This is just my personal opinion, and of course everybody is free to disagree with it
    I grew up reading Marvel Triple Action and the reprint of the original (including Cap after Hulk left) Avengers. Couldn’t afford the back issues of the Avengers. Still my favorite incarnation of them. Avengers #2 my all time favorite when they fought each other. Iron Man in his original armor and Hank as Giant-Man. Giant-Man is my preferred version of Hank also. Ant-Man just didn’t work with Iron Man, Thor and the Hulk. Giant-Man at least he was considered a heavy hitter like those three were. I have no problem with Scott Lang as Ant-Man. Actually enjoyed Spencer’s run.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Does anybody really know or care about the other YellowJacket or Giant-man? Does anybody outside of us remember they happened? Sure, there's a lot of back and forth between people on JaneThor, Sam Wilson as Captain America, and Riri Williams as Iron man (and don't give me any crap about Ironheart, she was marketed as Iron man). But where are all the people defending this or bringing it up in these debates? It doesn't seem like it worked, and it didn't seem like anybody cared they happened either. Is it better to be a dud than failure?
    I care about Raz (Giant-Man). I really like his character and I think he's got potential. I wish they would use him more often. I don't think his existence is any obstacle to bringing Hank back either. Hank existed just fine for decades alongside multiple other characters using his various costumed identities. Hank could introduce yet another new identity if he needs to...or go back to being just "Dr. Pym" like he was during the original WEST COAST AVENGERS series. I always thought that was a great choice for Hank, and it worked out really well for him for a long time.

    As for Darren Cross as Yellowjacket...well, I preferred Rita Demara but I don't hate it. It served its purpose both in terms of making him a good arch-nemesis for Scott in his solo book as well as tying into a bit of movie-synergy for whatever benefit that can provide. The nice thing is that, just like Eric O'Grady shifting to Black Ant when Scott Lang came back, they can easily find something different to do with Darren Cross if they decide to give the Yellowjacket identity back to Hank (or Rita, for that matter).

  12. #177
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I care about Raz (Giant-Man). I really like his character and I think he's got potential. I wish they would use him more often. I don't think his existence is any obstacle to bringing Hank back either. Hank existed just fine for decades alongside multiple other characters using his various costumed identities. Hank could introduce yet another new identity if he needs to...or go back to being just "Dr. Pym" like he was during the original WEST COAST AVENGERS series. I always thought that was a great choice for Hank, and it worked out really well for him for a long time.

    As for Darren Cross as Yellowjacket...well, I preferred Rita Demara but I don't hate it. It served its purpose both in terms of making him a good arch-nemesis for Scott in his solo book as well as tying into a bit of movie-synergy for whatever benefit that can provide. The nice thing is that, just like Eric O'Grady shifting to Black Ant when Scott Lang came back, they can easily find something different to do with Darren Cross if they decide to give the Yellowjacket identity back to Hank (or Rita, for that matter).
    I honestly don't see the need for it (the bold part). He was Giant-Man when he died, if he comes back I'd personally expect him to go back to being Giant-Man. It wasn't his choice to give away the suit anyway, he doesn't really know the guy running around in it and he owes him nothing.

    I know all this doesn't prevent Hank from coming back. I guess I just wish for the character to have some growth, and move a bit past his own demons. He's always been shown with an inferiority complex and often held back from what HE wanted just to please others, because he believed they were better than him or just not to displease them. I would like to see him come back and say: "Now wait a minute, this is my invention, my ID, and I want it back." I don't know, I think it would even be therapeutic for him.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I think it would show some growth on the character for once not to roll over on his belly and stand up for himself.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

  13. #178
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Dr. Pym is probably his best bet these days.

  14. #179
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Dr. Pym is probably his best bet these days.
    Why? Because others are using his IDs? What's wrong with wanting it back? It is his, after all...
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

  15. #180
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Dr. Pym is probably his best bet these days.

    it is one of my favorite versions. When he had an arsenal of items he could shrink and grow was awesome. Add that to either his yellow jacket or giant man powers. Of the two I prefer yellow jacket just because him as a flyer is more interesting and he can still grow when needed.

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