Carol Danvers - Captain Marvel Appreciation 2019

[Fokken]

I am just SO excited to have Carol mixing it up with the rest of the Avengers, during End Game.
I mean, just that tiny snippet betwixt her and Thor sent my heart soaring. I'm so curious to learn what the dynamic will be with her in the thick of it as a newbie to the gang.
Of course Rocket and Nebula are ALSO very much outsiders in this as well -- heck, THEY barely even like one another -- and THOR only loosely knows/appreciates "Rabbit".
This crew is gonna be pushing it and steering heavily on faith.
I FULLY RECOGNIZE AND RESPECT that this movie is largely about the core original 6, but I cannot wait to see however briefly or lengthy they summarize who Carol is, where she has been, what her ties to Fury are, and I imagine they're going to be quick to accept her because at this juncture they must have an "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality. Its all hands on deck y'all.

[Snoop Dogg]

this is the only chance i will have to see brie larson squeeze rdj's balls please kevin fiergo you can't take this away from me

[Ascended]

I FULLY RECOGNIZE AND RESPECT that this movie is largely about the core original 6, but I cannot wait to see however briefly or lengthy they summarize who Carol is, where she has been, what her ties to Fury are.....

This.

I *want* Endgame to be about the O6. This is the last time we're gonna see most of them, and they deserve to be the focus in this film and finish what they started in the spotlight. But this is also the only chance we'll have to see Carol interact with them, and I want to see at least a taste of that dynamic before Downy, Evans, etc., take their bow.

[lilyinblue]

How would you guys feel if kelly thompson retcons carol into letting rogue take her powers and memories because of what happened with marcus so she could forget?.

Please no. Retcons like this start having a domino effect on continuity where changing one event makes a whole lot of subsequent events stop making sense.

As was mentioned, it is a little like Bobbi's retcon. (Not knocking Cain here... I LOVED the majority of her Mockingbird run.) That was problematic, in part, because if you change the nature of what happened between Bobbi and Phantom Rider, everything that came after it changes too... basically making Bobbi out to be acting like a bit of a sociopath.

So if Rogue was helping Carol, all of Carol's hostility towards Rogue is pretty misplaced and a bunch of events that happened because of it just don't work anymore.

(And how would she have even known to ask Rogue for help? Rogue was an unknown entity until it happened.)

This.

I *want* Endgame to be about the O6. This is the last time we're gonna see most of them, and they deserve to be the focus in this film and finish what they started in the spotlight. But this is also the only chance we'll have to see Carol interact with them, and I want to see at least a taste of that dynamic before Downy, Evans, etc., take their bow.

Indeed! This!

[Punisher007]

I want to see Carol and Valkyrie interact myself (especially since Brie and Tessa Thompson are apparently friends IRL as well).

[mikeb]

So if Rogue was helping Carol, all of Carol's hostility towards Rogue is pretty misplaced and a bunch of events that happened because of it just don't work anymore.

(And how would she have even known to ask Rogue for help? Rogue was an unknown entity until it happened.)

Not if Rogue did this involuntarily. Not if Carol "ego bated" Rogue into doing this. Think of it this way: you are a young, cocky teenager trying to prove to yourself how much of a badass you are. At the same time, you are trying to prove yourself to a foster parent. No way was Rogue helping Carol voluntarily. I still feel Carol was so fed up with who and what she was as Ms.Marvel after the Marcus incident she wanted to be free of it, including the seventh sense preminitions.(that's maybe where Carol's head got messed up) And as far as Rogue being an unknown entity until it happened, not according to 1984's UXM#182. Rogue states there was an encounter with Carol before the encounter in San Francisco.

[Wiccan]

Err... No. Pls. I don't think anyone is still mad at Rogue at this, besides a handful of hardcore Carol fans. And for Carol, well, the damage that storyline caused her is already over and done and can't be erased. No need for all this nonsense.

[lilyinblue]

Err... No. Pls. I don't think anyone is still mad at Rogue at this, besides a handful of hardcore Carol fans..

And I think quite a few of her hardcore fans are also quite big fans of Rogue's!

[Ichijinijisanji]

Err... No. Pls. I don't think anyone is still mad at Rogue at this, besides a handful of hardcore Carol fans. And for Carol, well, the damage that storyline caused her is already over and done and can't be erased. No need for all this nonsense.

Yeah but what mikeb is suggesting: "What if carol wasn't a complete victim and essentially let rogue take her memories and powers so she herself is partly to blame for what happened to her and if she should take responsibility for the fact".

[Wiccan]

Yeah but what mikeb is suggesting: "What if carol wasn't a complete victim and essentially let rogue take her memories and powers".

I know. What I'm saying is that this seems like a way of:

1 - Taking some more of Rogue's guilt on the situation away, which, c'mon. She has had so much redemption already.

2 - Giving Carol some more agency on the situation... Which is good in theory, but at the end of the day doesn't make much sense, especially cause, as lily said, her actions after it don't work with the idea. It's been decades since that happened. Making retcons at this point won't make that much of a difference on the big scheme of things imo.

[gurkle]

I have to admit I don't know where "giving characters agency" morphed into the Mockingbird approach of "nothing must happen to this character unless they wanted it to happen." Certainly assault and abuse have been overused for cheap drama, but that's a collective problem, it doesn't mean Mockingbird becomes a better character if her backstory is rewritten.

Comics writers and/or editors have some weird ideas about what makes a character strong, like (to get this back on topic) deciding that Carol would be a stronger character if she inherited her powers instead of getting them by accident.

[Ascended]

Why do ya'll want Carol's low points taken away from her?

She was victimized by Rogue, in many ways what she experienced was worse than rape. And she had to watch that woman go on to become a hero. An Avenger, even.

Carol coming to terms with that, learning that it doesn't define her, rising above it, making peace with herself and Rogue (who was, in some ways, also a victim).....*that's* where the agency is at. *That's* where Carol's strength and accountability and responsibility are found. Making Carol culpable for her own mindwipe and power theft doesn't add anything to her. It might as well be victim blaming.

Rogue raped her. Or as good as. Instead of retcons to make it not rape, which is cheap, showcase the fact that Carol didn't let it stop her. A hero is defined not just by their villains, but more precisely by the challenges they overcome. Carol's journey getting past Rogue's attack is one of Carol's biggest victories. Why screw with that?

[Mike_Murdock]

It's interesting that, due to the cancellation of her book, people strongly associate Avengers 200 and Rogue's actions in Avengers Annual 10 even though they're technically very separate.

I'm sure there are moments in time that are best completely ignored. But I feel this is one of those things that was handled well and the character came out of it stronger. I wouldn't try to erase it from continuity. The Carol vs. Rogue dynamic is a good one I certainly wouldn't ignore.

[mikeb]

Why do ya'll want Carol's low points taken away from her?

She was victimized by Rogue, in many ways what she experienced was worse than rape. And she had to watch that woman go on to become a hero. An Avenger, even.

Carol coming to terms with that, learning that it doesn't define her, rising above it, making peace with herself and Rogue (who was, in some ways, also a victim).....*that's* where the agency is at. *That's* where Carol's strength and accountability and responsibility are found. Making Carol culpable for her own mindwipe and power theft doesn't add anything to her. It might as well be victim blaming.

Rogue raped her. Or as good as. Instead of retcons to make it not rape, which is cheap, showcase the fact that Carol didn't let it stop her. A hero is defined not just by their villains, but more precisely by the challenges they overcome. Carol's journey getting past Rogue's attack is one of Carol's biggest victories. Why screw with that?

For me, there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. Why do we never see a lead up to her encounter with Rogue from Carol's point of view? Why does she believe she can walk completely away from her former life without expecting someday someone from her superhero past wanting payback? Why did she put herself in a position where if she was attacked, no one could help her?Why didn't she retreat, formulate a stategy to defeat her would be opponent, and took that opponent down? This was the scenario Carol employed when an assasin was trying to kill her in Ms.Marvel #17 & 18. If the Avengers didn't know she was Carol longer with Marcus and was "hiding in plain sight", how did Rogue and Mystique find her? Why was someone with her military training and power set get taken down by a scrawny teenage girl?

[Ichijinijisanji]

For me, there is a lot of questions that need to be answered. Why do we never see a lead up to her encounter with Rogue from Carol's point of view? Why does she believe she can walk completely away from her former life without expecting someday someone from her superhero past wanting payback? Why did she put herself in a position where if she was attacked, no one could help her?Why didn't she retreat, formulate a stategy to defeat her would be opponent, and took that opponent down? This was the scenario Carol employed when an assasin was trying to kill her in Ms.Marvel #17 & 18. If the Avengers didn't know she was Carol longer with Marcus and was "hiding in plain sight", how did Rogue and Mystique find her? Why was someone with her military training and power set get taken down by a scrawny teenage girl?

Destiny told mystique that carol had returned.
Rogue took her down by borrowing super-strength and because a single touch can take anyone down (including thor in avengers annual 10--- atleast early on her absorption was more potent), so characterizing her as weak teenager is somewhat erroneous. In their encounter as shown, rogue interacts with carol as though they've met the first time, and many of the other retellings have been

I almost don't want to answer the whole "why did she expect she could walk away" part. After Mystique killed barnett and carol couldn't find her, carol had sort of let it go for weeks and returned to the avengers even before Marcus. She only resolved that she'd be ready the next time she's attacked. Of course the next time happened a long time later (weeks, maybe months) when rogue came for her at which point she didn't know who mystique really was (aside from her name) or who rogue was. The case of the assassin you mention in issue 17-18 is different as he was continuously attacking her, finding her through her suit instead of him running away and carol trying to trace him back.