Nightcrawler Appreciation 2019

[sungila]

Those who are Logurt fans may like to visit pages 383-384 from the Art Teases Thread, here:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...teases/page383

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...teases/page384

Thank you Rita.

Here's Francis Xie's full tease.

https://twitter.com/francishsie/stat...812224?lang=en

Of course they should kiss. Dammit, this is war?
Or is it? Or does it matter? When it's this close...and you haven't or don't...and you need to...

Eros has a infinite ways of demanding intimacy...from intimates...it doesn't worry about pairings...it doesn't see two...but one...and never more...and if you're separate you are desperate and if not desperate...if it's not no-one can help us and nothing can save us...if it's not ...00 party over opps out of time...why love or fight at all?

Heroes gotta be heroic. Passions are consuming...like fire, life...they do and will burn down fence posts, bed posts...this post...

If it's always close...and you're lucky enough to not be alone and to have somebody close...close by...they are all the more close...and if it's so endlessly close...you sooner or later kiss. It happens. And the kiss is an expression of that endlessly closeness...final as finally can be.

There are so many rules and boxes around male intimacy. Guys punching each other on the arm sipping at a beer, knocking the necks on bottles...turning away...it's so coy...to flirt with such...well, sadly these rules make for all sorts of distorted behaviors...American Football...Schisms...and such.

See, Kurt and Logan and Storm...see them go in for the kiss...see Storm step away and go...not this time lovers...this time, you two do it.

[Ricochet Rita]

EDIT: The posts I was refering to have been removed. I guess because they were in a not appropiate thread, or because they were slash fanpics.

[Ricochet Rita]

https://twitter.com/francishsie/stat...10109568479233

I'm starting to love his black nails. But short, please...

[Sundown]

EDIT: The posts I was refering to have been removed. I guess because they were in a not appropiate thread, or because they were slash fanpics.

Based on the comments, I think it was because it a was a preview art thread, not a fan art thread.

[sungila]

https://twitter.com/francishsie/stat...10109568479233

I'm starting to love his black nails. But short, please...

I like the black nails too, but for some reason this Kurt makes me feel that icky feeling.

Sometimes it's just...well, you know Claremont had this way of...Jonathan Carter and all that...Bess...it can be complicated defending Kurt.
Just ask him...he knows, in cannon, he is aware of his hyper-carnality, and even frustrated, angered or frightened by the dangers and limitations of his closeted queer ideas about sexuality and intimacy.

All the more reason to come out and actually have Kurt's sexuality be more fluid, fluid because it is, he is - it's un-complicated.

I wonder how much of this if any of this will play into Seanan McGuire's series.
"Theater People"...the first issue was kinda genius.

[Sundown]

I like the black nails too, but for some reason this Kurt makes me feel that icky feeling.

Me too. This one reminds me of the devil from Nightcrawler's Inferno.

[Indigo_Lady]

Me too. This one reminds me of the devil from Nightcrawler's Inferno.

I agree, something about this makes me uncomfortable. I guess because I am Christian, and the Kurt I know would have more respect for the cross. Besides, Kurt is a Catholic, which means he usually wears a crucifix.

[murda]

I agree, something about this makes me uncomfortable. I guess because I am Christian, and the Kurt I know would have more respect for the cross. Besides, Kurt is a Catholic, which means he usually wears a crucifix.

As someone who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school, it's rare that I've ever seen anyone wear a crucifix. Usually it's just crosses, crucifixes get hung on the wall or are a part of rosary beads. Wearing rosary beads is unusual for most Catholics. I did it once in high school and my mom freaked.

[sungila]

Me too. This one reminds me of the devil from Nightcrawler's Inferno.

This helps. Kinda seems right, fighting a mob of Hellfire minions.

Uncanny-NighttC.jpg

[Sundown]

This helps. Kinda seems right, fighting a mob of Hellfire minions.

Uncanny-NighttC.jpg

I like that picture, even though the artist got a lot of flak, if I remember right.

I suppose the picture we were all commenting on just reminds me of someone smarmy, and that's not how I see Kurt Wagner.

[sungila]

I like that picture, even though the artist got a lot of flak, if I remember right.

I suppose the picture we were all commenting on just reminds me of someone smarmy, and that's not how I see Kurt Wagner.

Yea, I kinda chose it because I'm one of those people who gives that artist flak and cause he's known for umm, well you know...but I do love this panel, always have.

[Ricochet Rita]

I agree, something about this makes me uncomfortable. I guess because I am Christian, and the Kurt I know would have more respect for the cross.

I suppose the picture we were all commenting on just reminds me of someone smarmy, and that's not how I see Kurt Wagner.

You all are totally right. Honestly, I posted the pic just because of its artistic high-quality, as I find it great.

As someone who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school, it's rare that I've ever seen anyone wear a crucifix. Usually it's just crosses, crucifixes get hung on the wall or are a part of rosary beads. Wearing rosary beads is unusual for most Catholics. I did it once in high school and my mom freaked.

I agree. I guess it all depends of the place and culture, but I too live surrounded by supposedly Catholic population (in a good number), though very few of them wear a simple cross. Much less a crucifix: that only wear people who are really devotee and sort of antiquated. A rosary? Well, that sure stands out.

[Sundown]

I do agree the artist is talented, even if I'm not a fan of his/her interpretation of him ��

[sungila]

Honestly, I've never participated in much discussion regarding Nightcrawler's faith and haven't spent much time reflecting upon it myself. Kurt is canonically described as a devout Roman Catholic. This being a factual primary aspect of his identity that for many fans is at the core of their affinity with him and a big part of what makes him so very separate and even heroic in regards to his place in the X-Men and Marvel U.

Certainly Cockrum didn't conceive of Kurt as Catholic, at least, I don't think so. I don't know exactly how, when or where his faith is centrally developed in the books or what motivated Claremont and others in their interpretation and presentation.
I don't know how well his faith has been represented.
I don't know how his Catholicism is perceived by his fans who are Catholic.
I don't know how his faith challenges readers who are agnostic or in any way at odds with Roman Catholicism.
I haven't considered this nearly enough.
It's a blind spot.

I know there are Catholic websites and message boards where these discussions can be found, but that's not where I am or coming from.
I'm here.

I do know that there are literary connections and contradictions to be made. Everything from Dante's Inferno to CS Lewis' Great Divorce to the traditions of the Chivalric Knights and the Medieval Code of Chivalry as it has influenced the romanic ideals of lionhearted rogues from Captain Blood to Robin Hood...to Kurt.

Also stylistically a 'devil' in a darkened church, the outsider unwelcomed - the light in the shadows in shadow in light.
It's the stuff of saints...to be misunderstood and persecuted and yet to forgive and for the intimacy of such isolation to be a means for manifesting a deeper most intimate communion with God and prayer as life and origin.

When Kurt dies in Second Coming his last words are invocation, invitation and love most human...most kind and offering..."I believe in you"

To exist as an instrument of belief...for that belief to be in a goodness greater than and not apart from doubt, struggle strife or even death...to go without a given answer or promise...but with a gift for one alone and burdened...something to save the savior he just saved.

In that moment the definition of catholic as all-embracing, indiscriminate and wide feels so very condensed and warm as a bead or a stone passed from a fist that is opened and offered to another...loose from any rosary or strand...a simple jewel...given.

Do any of you have anything to share about this?

To me, in this world, in this moment, in these days...there must be a means for us to offer our goodness through borders and walls and stylized constructs of righteousness - we must reach for shores and turn as best we can for the exile still at sea...and yet, what are we to offer if we are not willing to trust ourselves to the very ground we hold to? We must hold to something in order to reach for another. Mustn't we?

There is also Hermes...the messenger God...Hermeticism and the meanings...of sanctuary, rescue, harbor...and transport...with the blurring of the standard divisiveness of underworld and death as separate, mute, dumb and forbidden.

There is also Kurt Darkholme and his deep distrust of all and any faith...and yet when he dies...

Also, what are we to make of Kurt's faith now since he has not fallen but jaunted from Heaven and found himself absolutely forbidden entrance...with a faith that offers him no hope for heaven but strong enough to deny any other eternal option...his eternal soul no longer requires redemption, that redemption was redeemed...returned to return...and in that exchange released...

oh, see this is why I keep returning to Kurt as a Bodhisattva - one who has passed on personal peace everlasting until every suffering soul is ferried safely home...ever restless...as any sailor on the shore.

[Indigo_Lady]

It was Claremont that gave Kurt his faith, although Cockrum was not real thrilled with what CC had done to his "alter ego", and said so. CC also made Kitty Jewish and Ororo a spiritual person. I might be wrong, but I also think he introduced Judaism into Magneto's backstory as well. He understood that that many people believe in God in one shape or another, and making them religious or spiritual made them more relatable as characters. Unfortunately, many of the newer X-Men were given very little backstory or personalities that make readers care about them, so many of them faded into limbo as soon as the writer who created them moves on.

One of the things that first attracted me to Kurt is the fact that he has a spiritual side that is similar to mine, although I am Protestant. Oh, there are other things as well (I am a sucker for a romantic hero and swashbuckler. I often think Kurt should change the spelling of his name to Knightcrawler) but his faith was and still is important to me. I HATE that he supposedly gave up his soul to come back to Earth, or even that arc where he had to defend heaven against Azazel, as if God is not powerful enough to do that himself. Someone who doesn't believe that we have an immortal spiritual part doesn't understand how horrifying that idea is to those of us that do.