Nightcrawler Appreciation 2019

[Su_Whisterfield]

True. I've been looking to Kurts fans for some reassurance of his characterization in HoX/PoX as I too found it "so very enthrallingly contradictory, funny, elegantly feral and just very awesome.".

The art itself was slightly 'shady', but absolutely everyone in the whole story was drawn slightly 'shady' too.



Yep, She is dangerous, especially with this new very emotive motive. Mystique will be seen in the X-Men title in a few months that I'm hoping will bring Kurt and Rogue into the title. Hickman does have carte blanche on characters he can use, and it would be criminal if he'd ignore the House of Raven branch of X-lore. I do think a story between them all has been seeded, but it might take a long while till we get there.

I've got a theory that Hickman is kinda distilling/condensing characters down to almost their monikers, so I'm intrigued (and a bit apprehensive) of what he's got in-store for Nightcrawler and Rogue.

I still think one of the Sinister Secrets was referring to Nightcrawler and Meggan. It's not necessarily true, as it is Sinister gossiping, but I think there are plans afoot for Kurt stories soon.

I’m not as happy as Sungila with HoX/PoX Kurt, apart from the leap into the sun page, which was tragic but beautiful on many levels. But I’m having niggles with everyone’s characters and I’m hoping this is a plot issue bubbling under the surface of our paradise island, not just that the writers views of the characters are so different to mine that it doesn’t jell., because I’ll just stop buying the current comics if that’s the case.

Mystique has been a rudderless, far too ruthless character for too long, the main reason I’d like Irene back is that she’s much more interesting and nuanced when her partner is with her.

I think Meggan is the ideal partner for Kurt, in so many ways, but mostly because of his respect for her but I really, really wouldn’t like him destroying what she and Brian have, because of that respect. Also, I don’t want him to be a home wrecker. I find it quite funny, Kurt likes to think of himself as the Lothario and ladies man bit he’s just too polite; if they tell him to back off he does.

Kurt will be appearing in Maurarders, at least for the first issue

Thank you, I saw that. Marauders, on the whole, looks like a fun comic and I’m looking forward to it. Digital makes it so much easier to pick up comics that look good or just random issues of ones that prove interesting.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I have committed further fanfic.
It’s a gentle and inconsequential slice of life for the fuzzy amongst us.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/21169616

[Ultimate Rogue]

^^^^^

Cute with a capital C.

“I dunno, Elf, what a tangle.”

I Loved it.

I've seemed to have spent a freakin' lifetime detanglin' my big blond grizzly retrievers constant fuzz too!!. And it's always a lil bit awkward, he too seems to dislike feeling like an animal, and only trusts me too tackle the task.

The story resonated with me, Thanks .

[Su_Whisterfield]

^^^^^

Cute with a capital C.

“I dunno, Elf, what a tangle.”

I Loved it.

I've seemed to have spent a freakin' lifetime detanglin' my big blond grizzly retrievers constant fuzz too!!. And it's always a lil bit awkward, he too seems to dislike feeling like an animal, and only trusts me too tackle the task.

The story resonated with me, Thanks .

Thanks!

I thought Rachel might know, because she was in a relationship with Kurt, but not many other people do.

There’s not enough Kurt for me in the current X Books, a couple of panels here and there just wont do, so I’m having to write my own.

[sungila]

Re-thinking Excalibur lately and, well, honestly, what do you really think about Alan Davis' characterization of Kurt? There's a definite high point somewhere in the first two arcs of Excalibur for me, but just before he takes his first leave from title so much of the hesitant reluctant would-be leader who lives like a heart on the sleeve, unsustainable when he's too out in the open keeps bulking up, transitions into this sort of - well, I don't blame Davis really, it's hard not to crush on Kurt and turn him into this shinning knight but he's not that guy to me...and the more I read Kurt post Mutant Massacre all the way through his death in Second Coming...the less I really feel like my Nightcrawler is there at all.

In panels and pages and short bursts wonderfully present. Like in Vol 3. by Aguirre-Sacasa / Robertson, kinda sorta in X-Infernus, in various Logan moments, often in battle or fight scenes he's stunningly in motion...but um,

So really I'm, for the sake of discussion mostly, I'm arguing that the Kurt spiritually perished in Mutant Massacre and that in the first two runs of Excalibur his shinning spirit rekindled epically and somehow vanished and that the Nightcrawler who emerged was different, an imposter made to fit the big guns and big event arenas the became the X-franchise from the late 90's on through.

But then Aaron's Amazing is AMAZING.

And so, since then, well, I didn't like Red at all, from note one it clanged with a shallow sort of agenda that Kurt and his shadowy depth doesn't fit. And well, Hickman's HoXPoX Kurt fits so well to me in the complexity of ambiguity...he shines in that sort of...oh,

My goal here is to generate a discussion and reflect upon listening really...and responding.

It's been awhile since the thread has had discussion.

I've changed. I can put a finger almost on the panel and page where something happened. And I didn't notice then, didn't know.

Comics are important. Ephemera, diaries, scraps, fragments, pocket-stuff, photos, the things we keep and return to...stuff we find, stuff, you know...fandom, randomness, meticulous forgotten-forget-me-nots that remember us before we say we know...so we don't, and do...um, yea.

And for me personally, AOA Nightcrawler was incredible because his bitterness flawed by that same good heart, felt so right. He wasn't a simple inversion. No he was a Kurt that had been seen in spirals of minor apocalypse, that defensive angry elf...only Kurt Darkholme embraced that...while Wagner resisted until it consumed him...nearly suicidal in MM...

So there...anybody have thoughts?

Also, now that it is over, Kurt Age of X-Man was one wonderful first issue with a really ugly cover (for me).
The rest of the 4 issue run couldn't possibly tell the story began in #1 and maybe condensing the whole thing into a single one shot would have been better. I'll most likely never revisit it and began backing out of it before AofXM ended.

I'm very interested in this guy now in this Dawn.
I believe in this beginning. (I think)

70150385_2308994119366264_2890336290959159085_n.jpg

fullsizeoutput_1a3.jpg

One way to ask something about what I'm asking would be to ask what your favorite Kurt appearances (arcs, single issues, anything) are post Excalibur Cross-Time capper up to HoX/Pox.

And how do you feel about Hickman's Kurt and his role, characterization, place in this new dawn.

Where do you go to get your Kurt?

Maybe it's just a really good moment to be a swashbuckling shadow absorbent idealistic good hearted teleporting ex-trapeze cute freaky brave and empathetically flamboyant big hearted sensitive swinger? A lil wounded, and with resurrection as a guarantee, securely fit into a big family, a seat at the council...well, no net needed!

[Su_Whisterfield]

Re-thinking Excalibur lately and, well, honestly, what do you really think about Alan Davis' characterization of Kurt? There's a definite high point somewhere in the first two arcs of Excalibur for me, but just before he takes his first leave from title so much of the hesitant reluctant would-be leader who lives like a heart on the sleeve, unsustainable when he's too out in the open keeps bulking up, transitions into this sort of - well, I don't blame Davis really, it's hard not to crush on Kurt and turn him into this shinning knight but he's not that guy to me...and the more I read Kurt post Mutant Massacre all the way through his death in Second Coming...the less I really feel like my Nightcrawler is there at all.

In panels and pages and short bursts wonderfully present. Like in Vol 3. by Aguirre-Sacasa / Robertson, kinda sorta in X-Infernus, in various Logan moments, often in battle or fight scenes he's stunningly in motion...but um,

So really I'm, for the sake of discussion mostly, I'm arguing that the Kurt spiritually perished in Mutant Massacre and that in the first two runs of Excalibur his shinning spirit rekindled epically and somehow vanished and that the Nightcrawler who emerged was different, an imposter made to fit the big guns and big event arenas the became the X-franchise from the late 90's on through.

But then Aaron's Amazing is AMAZING.

And so, since then, well, I didn't like Red at all, from note one it clanged with a shallow sort of agenda that Kurt and his shadowy depth doesn't fit. And well, Hickman's HoXPoX Kurt fits so well to me in the complexity of ambiguity...he shines in that sort of...oh,

My goal here is to generate a discussion and reflect upon listening really...and responding.

It's been awhile since the thread has had discussion.

I've changed. I can put a finger almost on the panel and page where something happened. And I didn't notice then, didn't know.

Comics are important. Ephemera, diaries, scraps, fragments, pocket-stuff, photos, the things we keep and return to...stuff we find, stuff, you know...fandom, randomness, meticulous forgotten-forget-me-nots that remember us before we say we know...so we don't, and do...um, yea.

And for me personally, AOA Nightcrawler was incredible because his bitterness flawed by that same good heart, felt so right. He wasn't a simple inversion. No he was a Kurt that had been seen in spirals of minor apocalypse, that defensive angry elf...only Kurt Darkholme embraced that...while Wagner resisted until it consumed him...nearly suicidal in MM...

So there...anybody have thoughts?

Also, now that it is over, Kurt Age of X-Man was one wonderful first issue with a really ugly cover (for me).
The rest of the 4 issue run couldn't possibly tell the story began in #1 and maybe condensing the whole thing into a single one shot would have been better. I'll most likely never revisit it and began backing out of it before AofXM ended.

I'm very interested in this guy now in this Dawn.
I believe in this beginning. (I think)

70150385_2308994119366264_2890336290959159085_n.jpg

fullsizeoutput_1a3.jpg

One way to ask something about what I'm asking would be to ask what your favorite Kurt appearances (arcs, single issues, anything) are post Excalibur Cross-Time capper up to HoX/Pox.

And how do you feel about Hickman's Kurt and his role, characterization, place in this new dawn.

Where do you go to get your Kurt?

Maybe it's just a really good moment to be a swashbuckling shadow absorbent idealistic good hearted teleporting ex-trapeze cute freaky brave and empathetically flamboyant big hearted sensitive swinger? A lil wounded, and with resurrection as a guarantee, securely fit into a big family, a seat at the council...well, no net needed!

My take on the character is not going to be typical of most current readers;
I started reading B&W Xmen reprints when I was about 17. In 1980.
I stopped reading about 1990, at 27.
I have come back in 2019 at the age of 56.
It’s a quantum leap in change, in both myself and the comics. There are so many characters, so many comics, TV, films. I am re-reading the back catalogue, digitally.

I think my biggest problem is the stasis, not just for Nightcrawler but for all the characters.
I don’t like soap operas, with one notable exception. Most soaps, like comics, try to preserve their characters in aspic for as long as possible. Which I find irritating. The one exception is The Archers, which has been on the radio since 1951 and happens on a linear, day to day timeline. The characters grow older, have children, grandchildren, die at the same pace as the listeners. So the children are introduced, we hear them grow up start families of their own, get invested in these new characters organic, almost without realising it.

Re Alan Davis (who I’ve met a few times and heard speak at comics cons in the 80s). Alan is a much, much better artist than writer, also, Alan has confessed that he really, really wants to be Kurt (Alan’s portrait is on the cover of Excalibur as the janitor, even has his name badge). So, it’s confused. I adore his ability to draw almost anything and particularly different face and body types (he still has a standard stable, but it’s about 10 different ones, a lot of artists can’t manage more than 4) and I love his ability to draw backgrounds, non-hero characters, street clothes. And, of course, his sense of humour.

The new status quo.
I only started re-reading as I am convalescing after treatment for cancer, I was bored. I had no intention picking up any current comics, I bought the Trade of Amazing to reacquaint myself with Kurt (I still have my paper comics).
But, as a new start, HoX/PoX has sucked me in. It’s interesting. Whether I remain interested remains to be seen.

I don’t feel I’ve seen enough of Nightcrawler in the new stuff to know him yet and to know if I like him. I don’t think I’ve seen Kurt at all yet apart from that one set of panels before he and Logan jump into the sun.
It’s all been Nightcrawler, the raid on the base was all NC and classic, early 80s NC at that. The Quiet Council felt like confident Nightcrawler, rather than gentle Kurt.

So we shall see. I have always loved the character for being different, not just a standard superhero, for being strange, for having a strange worldview.

Too often he is written as a though American - particularly the religion, Romany German Catholic’s do not act anything like American born again Christians. This is a man brought up by a circus family, four people in a tiny caravan for 18+ years, on the move across mainland Europe. He should be multilingual, multicultural, multiskilled.

I don’t think he should be leading, he is the supportive one, he is the contrast to all the machismo and chest thumping, the kind one, the one who picks up the pieces, the smart ‘outside the box’ one.

This is purely my own take on the character, but I see Kurt as an introvert, Nightcrawler is his extrovert stage persona he wears like he wears his costume.

[Ultimate Rogue]

Hmmm,

But then Aaron's Amazing is AMAZING.

And so, since then, well, I didn't like Red at all, from note one it clanged with a shallow sort of agenda that Kurt and his shadowy depth doesn't fit. And well, Hickman's HoXPoX Kurt fits so well to me in the complexity of ambiguity...he shines in that sort of...oh,

I've never read Excalibur, so I can't comment on that run, but Aarons Amazing X-Men was fun n wacky, so I'd recommend too, Su_Whist.

X-Men Red didn't do anythings for me either, it actually irritated me with the all the Magneto helmets poping up from nowhere.

I initially reacted negatively to HoXPoX Kurt, as I have/do when these characters inner thoughts aren't shown on page. I don't get the snooty shallow trend of writers poo pooing the very useful tool of thought bubbles, it really does impact some characters more than others, Kurt, Rogue, Gambit, Jean and many others.

It's been awhile since the thread has had discussion.

Yeah, You guys are cool though, you've created a nice cosy thoughtful place, away from the madding crowd.

(I'd started to get a little annoyed at Kurt and Magik fans for jumping at all chances to beat Pixie down, simply seemingly for having a teleporting ability, I've gotten defensive, leave the girl be, she's part of a different generation, there is no competition there )

And for me personally, AOA Nightcrawler was incredible because his bitterness flawed by that same good heart, felt so right. He wasn't a simple inversion. No he was a Kurt that had been seen in spirals of minor apocalypse, that defensive angry elf...only Kurt Darkholme embraced that...while Wagner resisted until it consumed him...nearly suicidal in MM...

So there...anybody have thoughts?

He was definitely formidable, and unnerving for me, from what I read under Rick Remenders pen.

Also, now that it is over, Kurt Age of X-Man was one wonderful first issue with a really ugly cover (for me).
The rest of the 4 issue run couldn't possibly tell the story began in #1 and maybe condensing the whole thing into a single one shot would have been better. I'll most likely never revisit it and began backing out of it before AofXM ended.

I went the other way, in that the first issue was a hurdle for me to get over, and then I started to enjoy it further on.

One way to ask something about what I'm asking would be to ask what your favorite Kurt appearances (arcs, single issues, anything) are post Excalibur Cross-Time capper up to HoX/Pox.

X-Men Unlimited #4 has my favorite Kurt, Rogue and Mystique drama

There was a issue of Gold (I think) with a Kurt, Logan and Piotr train trip that I enjoyed.

And how do you feel about Hickman's Kurt and his role, characterization, place in this new dawn.

His role is interesting, no doubt, I'm slowly deciphering the meanings of it all, and so am cautiously optimistic, but honestly I'm downright unsure of what Hickman thinks of Kurt, Rogue and almost everyone else that isn't named Magneto, Xavier or Emma, and sooo.....unsure. I can only be sure that Marvel would want to keep these characters beloved, hopefully, surely.

Where do you go to get your Kurt?

X-Men Legends at the minute, retro gaming, gotta get my fix of these characters somehow.

Maybe it's just a really good moment to be a swashbuckling shadow absorbent idealistic good hearted teleporting ex-trapeze cute freaky brave and empathetically flamboyant big hearted sensitive swinger? A lil wounded, and with resurrection as a guarantee, securely fit into a big family, a seat at the council...well, no net needed!

It's always a good time for that. Kurt more than the other Orchis mission characters kinda sorta benefits the most from the HoX resurrection, as I was left bemused by the other Kurt resurrection. (Not that I'm totally sold on the HoX resurrections)

I think my biggest problem is the stasis, not just for Nightcrawler but for all the characters.
I don’t like soap operas, with one notable exception. Most soaps, like comics, try to preserve their characters in aspic for as long as possible. Which I find irritating.

Aye, I'm not here for tiny piecemeal of drama plots as what the soap operas offer either. Soap operas don't have a month long wait between installments and soap operas bore me rotten. Rogue had had a good 15 years of progressive momentum recently, but seems to have been put back recently, into a costume of yore too.

Re Alan Davis (who I’ve met a few times and heard speak at comics cons in the 80s). Alan is a much, much better artist than writer, also, Alan has confessed that he really, really wants to be Kurt (Alan’s portrait is on the cover of Excalibur as the janitor, even has his name badge). So, it’s confused. I adore his ability to draw almost anything and particularly different face and body types (he still has a standard stable, but it’s about 10 different ones, a lot of artists can’t manage more than 4) and I love his ability to draw backgrounds, non-hero characters, street clothes. And, of course, his sense of humour.

I've never got my hands on Excalibur, I really need to get on that, give it a read.

So we shall see. I have always loved the character for being different, not just a standard superhero, for being strange, for having a strange worldview.

Too often he is written as a though American - particularly the religion, Romany German Catholic’s do not act anything like American born again Christians. This is a man brought up by a circus family, four people in a tiny caravan for 18+ years, on the move across mainland Europe. He should be multilingual, multicultural, multiskilled.

I don’t think he should be leading, he is the supportive one, he is the contrast to all the machismo and chest thumping, the kind one, the one who picks up the pieces, the smart ‘outside the box’ one.

This is purely my own take on the character, but I see Kurt as an introvert, Nightcrawler is his extrovert stage persona he wears like he wears his costume.

A lot of the deep and meaningful 'Kurt' scenes of the past few years have been through others reactions to his death, resurrection or injuries (Guggenheim Gold) and mostly/exclusively limited to Logan and Kitty reactions, which has been a shame, and so it's mostly been Nightcrawler depicted, rather than Kurt.

Here's a fanart of something sorely overlooked by the X-scribes...


The story behind the pic, IIRC was that it was drawn by a Rogue fan and poster here a few years ago depicting Rogue and Kurts reunion once he was resurrected.

[Su_Whisterfield]

The original Excalibur is delightful, absolutely delightful, for all the characters, well worth getting. And the number of times Kurt gets his kit off (yes, I am just that shallow).

I am hoping Hickman has plans for Kurt, lord knows he needs a soft reboot. Being on the Council is significant, I don’t think leading a team particularly suits Kurt, but I think he will be good in a leadership role on council. And if this new status quo sticks around (sales are excellent, so Krakoa might be here for good) there’s oodles of potential storylines.

What I’d really, really like is for someone, anyone to take a good hard look at his character and his backstory and make something coherent out of the mess we currently have. Mystique is a highly unreliable narrator (or, as I tend to think of her, a lying bitch) so it shouldn’t be impossible. If they did decide to keep the demon mutant crap, then use it. I hate it, but then I didn’t want Mystique either; Kurt’s story is much stronger if he’d been born to human parents. Part of the reason I dislike Azazel as ‘Dad’ was that we already had a link to a perfectly good demon (who started out as a human magician) in Balasco. In his earliest appearances in Ka-Zar, he has labs with all sorts of nasty human experiments. Including blue skinned demons. It was most likely the artist (Brent Anderson) just futzing about, as we do but I’ve always been curious. And he’s such an interesting, sick and twisted character.


Mystique has clearly got plots to come. She should be such an interesting character but she’s just become a parody, I’m hoping she (eventually) gets Irene back and some stability and sanity.
Rather terrified by the thought of her trying to set up a happy home with all her family a la The Summer House...
I don’t think she has earned any right to any familial relationship with Kurt, nasty bitch, but seeing him get closer to Rogue would be cool.

[Ultimate Rogue]

*chuckle* @ lying and nasty bitch,

True, your candor is refreshing.

Some characters get too much glossing over as misunderstood sympathetic characters in recent years, when frankly, characters like Kurt and Rogue should just be able to call them out, without anyone questioning their justness as good moral heroes, because they have been hurt by Raven.

Some Rogue fans have expressed interest in having Raven revealed as her father with Irene as her mother, but no, not for me, no way, I like these characters having branching off family ties, it reinforces their found family theme and also makes their world more richer. Unfortunately the last Rogue and Mystique interaction was very 'cutesy'. While I can accept that Rogue could feel indebted to Raven as a fostered child, it still grates on me, as I think the groomed angle is a more valuable as a warning parable.

The two last Kurt and Raven meetings that I know of were at Rogues wedding (no interactions shown) and then before that was during an event called axis where the heroes and villains moral axis's were turned, it wasn't great, interesting or additive of their dynamics, and has been forgotten by the characters.

Kurt does have strong bonds with almost all the new team books rosters, and so he may pop up in any of them, Bamfing here n bamfing there!

[Su_Whisterfield]

I wouldn’t put the grooming of Rogue past Mystique. I went and read X-Men Unlimited, argh, the art is so cluttered and incoherent! I find a lot of the 90s art unreadable, there are rules for sequential art, just as there are for writing.


I’m still ever so slightly sulking that Kurt isn’t playing pirates, Kate got her interest in pirates from him in the first place. I do hope it’s mentioned or addressed in some way as to why he’s not involved.

[ermac]

If they did decide to keep the demon mutant crap, then use it. I hate it, but then I didn’t want Mystique either; Kurt’s story is much stronger if he’d been born to human parents.

You know what, I think you're right in this. Not every character has to be secretely related to another one in X-Men.

[Su_Whisterfield]

You know what, I think you're right in this. Not every character has to be secretely related to another one in X-Men.

Mystique/Destiny I could have lived with, just because it genuinely interesting.

And the demon crap goes against Dr Strange and the Eye of Agamotto from Uncanny Annual 4; the Eye scans Kurt and declares him human, not demon, which is okay for Mystique/Destiny but not Mystique/Azazel. Strangely, it would have been okay for Mystique/Belasco as he started out as human.
And yes, I read annual 4, when it came out, I remember trivia like that.

But best origin of all would just have been some quiet German human couple getting a bit of a surprise when their son was born.

[Snoop Dogg]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4f9a2Kh...d=8lqd19w5ejwa

[Su_Whisterfield]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4f9a2Kh...d=8lqd19w5ejwa

Sword, beard and earring? Fans self. Thanks.

As there’s no current sign of our pretty lad in the books, I’m reduced to drawing him myself.
F08CA4EB-C642-4257-8E99-AC0AB8DFA535.jpg

[Sundown]

Yeah, I don't have any reason to pick up any books right now, so I rely on reviews to see if that status changes.