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  1. #406
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Actually, that Excalibur issue was just an issue about the team having a night out. It was actually Kitty and Petes idea and not only that they were the ones that announced to the team in the bar that they were seeing each other. Kurt and Brian didnt know beforehand. actually that scene in the bathroom was it as far as threatening Pete went. They mostly, albeit grudgingly, accepted the relationship afterwards.

    The irony is between this Excalibur issue and the Uncanny issue you mentioned was that they (Storm and Wolverine) hated Piotr for breaking Kitties heart and the beating wasnt because he was an older man with Kitty but it was because he ended it. Kurt points out how young they are in that issue and I'm thinking he may have been the only one with a sane view of Kitty/Piotr. Then years later Pete Wisdom gets threatened by Kurt and Brian for the opposite reason - for starting anything in the first place. Just a correction on people keep misremembering it as both Logan and Kurt taking him out to get beat where it was Logan alone that did. He didnt bring Kurt with him. It was Kurt that ported into the car as they were driving away and Kurt came along as a referee. Logan threatened him to stay out of his way with phsysical violence. I really hope this is just Logan being old fashioned being from the 1800s and all (yet how do you explain Storm?) I really didnt like that issue much other than its nods to the Logan/Kurt friendship. It didn't sit well with me.
    Lol

    Oh what a poor fool my memory is, I gotta quit following it around.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  2. #407
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    Uncanny X-Men #188 Dec 1984
    "Legacy of the Lost!"
    Following their supposed victory against the Dire Wraiths, the X-Men and Forge find
    themselves besieged by a manifestation of Shadowbeings that threaten to swallow them up.
    As they struggle to free themselves from being assimilated, Storm uses the gun that
    Forge gave her to shoot off his mechanical leg so he can get away and find some help.
    As Forge calls out to Nazé, he is unaware that his tribe's shaman has been replaced by
    a Dire Wraith who now is casting an evil spell in the inner sanctum of Forge's penthouse.
    The Wraith-Nazé calls for a mystical being to aid the Dire Wraiths and offers the entire Earth in exchange.
    This powerful nether being scans "Nazé's" body and learns the truth and mystically
    strikes him down dead, finding that killing this pretender suits his purposes better.

    Meanwhile, just above the Dallas/Fort Worth airport, Amanda Sefton is working her job as
    an airplane stewardess when suddenly Nightcrawler appears and teleports her away onto the Blackbird.

    He explains to her the X-Men's dilemma that the X-Men need her aid.
    They quickly teleport into Forge's Eagles Nest and Amanda goes to work.

    With one mystical blast she frees the X-Men but fails to destroy the Shadowbeings.
    Rogue transforms into a Dire Wraith due to her mutant absorbing powers and battles with Colossus.
    Just then, Colossus's sister Magik appears and uses her Soul Sword to change Rogue back to normal

    while Amanda unleashes her full power to mystically snare the Shadowbeings so
    that Illyana can destroy them with her Soul Sword. However, they prove too powerful.
    Realizing that a Wraith must still be alive, Storm remembers the one she locked up on the roof.
    Forge and Nightcrawler teleport there and Forge finds and terminates the last Wraith, ending the threat of the Shadowbeings inside.

    With the X-Men recover from the battle, Forge goes looking for Nazé and finds what he believes to be his old friend’s unconscious body.
    Storm enters the room and tells him that the X-Men are leaving. Forge tries to stop her but she threatens to shoot him.
    She tells him that he should not worry, as they will meet again. However she tells him he might regret it, and she leaves.

    Meanwhile, out in deep sea near the Bermuda Triangle, Lee Forester's fish
    crew is at work when they spot a man in the water being attacked by sharks.
    Lee manages to fend the creatures off with a rifle and pull the man aboard the ship.
    Getting a better look at the man she saved, she is shocked to see that it is Magneto.
    The master of magnetism remembers her from their previous encounter and tells her that he is indebted to her.

    While at the X-Mansion, Storm and the other X-Men have returned to the mansion from Dallas.
    Storm is coming out of the pool after a swim and is met by Nightcrawler.
    Kurt comes to tell her that the Professor has called a meeting for the X-Men.
    Storm tells Kurt that since she is no longer a mutant she doesn't feel like she is part of the X-Men and declines to join.
    However Kurt manages to convince her to join.

    As the X-Men are having their meeting, outside Rachel, Illyana and Sunspot try to listen in to what's going on.
    The Professor detects their presence and tells his young students to go to bed.
    Rachel declines to accompany the younger students and decides to stay up a while longer.
    Inside the Professor's study, the X-Men vent their frustrations over the United States government being responsible for stripping
    Storm of her powers and discuss what they should do about the coming Mutant Control Act that is being pushed through Congress.

    Nightcrawler airs his frustrations about the current state of human and mutant affairs
    and points out that anti-mutant sentiments were the reason Jean Grey died.
    Hearing this from outside, Rachel lashes out telepathically, not willing to
    believe that her mother had died years before she was born in the future.
    The Professor manages to calm her down and Rachel explains the
    story about her past, which may or may not be the X-Men's future.
    She explains how when she was a young girl, anti-mutant forces gunned down most of
    the students and blew up the mansion and that she witnessed Charles Xavier being shot herself.
    How as an adult she was locked in a concentration camp for mutants and how the X-Men tried to save their future
    while Kate Pryde was sent back in time to prevent their future from happening and how all the X-Men had died.

    This vision from the future shocks all of the X-Men and the Professor is the most visibly shaken of them all.
    Rachel explains that when the X-Men failed to stop the Sentinels in her time she
    attempted to travel back in time, but found herself in a past that she does not remember.
    She pleads to Nightcrawler not to give up their struggle and to continue to fight for human mutant peace.
    Nightcrawler takes this to heart and agrees to keep on fighting.

    At a New York shipping yard, a man named Jaime Rodriguez is hard at work hauling
    crates of fish when one crate accidentally falls to the ground and breaks open.
    Examining the spilled fish he notices that one of them has a strange golden amulet stuffed inside it.
    Removing it, Rodriquez marvels at how much money he could get selling it when the amulet
    suddenly speaks, telling him that if he dons the amulet he will have the power to rule the world.

    Story by Chris Claremont. Art by John Romita, Jr. and Dan Green.

  3. #408

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    that entire early 1980s era. I missed out on so much.

    Kurt's skill as a pilot are under-used. This should be more prominent. I'd like to see him in a "Top Gun" type adventure.

  4. #409
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    that entire early 1980s era. I missed out on so much.

    Kurt's skill as a pilot are under-used. This should be more prominent. I'd like to see him in a "Top Gun" type adventure.
    Poor darling has been criminally underused, which is daft, because he should be the poster boy Charles’ dream.

  5. #410
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I also remember Kurt had medical training and would act as the team medic as well but not since the 80s. God, dust that one off. No offense to Claremont but how did Kurt get medical training and pilot training traveling in that little caravan and him looking the way he does and the fact that circus' dont stay in one place? I wonder where he got it? It never was specified now that I'm thinking more on it, maybe it was at Xaviers and not when he was in the circus? If he was a full on doctor or nurse he would have to go to med or nursing school as opposed to him simply having medical training. Then there is of course piloting school. He also used to be a bit of a tinkerer. I remember when he said he wasnt as good as Kitty but he gets by. Kurt sure is multi-talented. Of course, anything that can give Kurt more focus is good I suppose.

    Top Gun with Kurt could be cool and a lot more interesting than the Cruise film. Can you believe this child of the 80s still hasn't seen that yet?
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 12-25-2019 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #411
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Double post.

  7. #412
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I also remember Kurt had medical training and would act as the team medic as well but not since the 80s. God, dust that one off. No offense to Claremont but how did Kurt get medical training and pilot training traveling in that little caravan and him looking the way he does and the fact that circus' dont stay in one place? I wonder where he got it? It never was specified now that I'm thinking more on it, maybe it was at Xaviers and not when he was in the circus? If he was a full on doctor or nurse he would have to go to med or nursing school as opposed to him simply having medical training. Then there is of course piloting school. He also used to be a bit of a tinkerer. I remember when he said he wasnt as good as Kitty but he gets by. Kurt sure is multi-talented. Of course, anything that can give Kurt more focus is good I suppose.

    Top Gun with Kurt could be cool and a lot more interesting than the Cruise film. Can you believe this child of the 80s still hasn't seen that yet?
    I just assumed he got taught by Chuck and co, training up lots of people to fly the jet is sensible. And I don’t think he had deep medical training, just enough to make him useful.
    I’d be highly surprised if Kurt had any formal education, given his upbringing, but he’s canonically bright and curious, I bet he was keen to learn.
    In my head canon, he’d be multilingual, due to all the different countries he went to, and the international nature of the circus people. Kids pickup other languages easily if exposed at an early age. But no passport or paperwork. He’d be able to drive a van, to change a tyre, to keep a beat up old vehicle running, but no drivers license, of course.
    He’d be able to read, German, English, possibly French (he’d have read Dumas in French, bet you any money) but I’m less sure about writing and maths, not much use for maths beyond counting the takings in a circus. And those fingers, writing would be hard. He’d not have much, if any exposure to computers before going to the US.

    I may have thought about this too much...

  8. #413
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    His favorite movie is Mask of Zorro
    I think Kurt's Hollywood is fixed in a 'classic' expat 'another county' theater mode, kind of extrapolated a few times over...not just the film itself, but the American theater and the whole culture...a formative imaginary wardrobe and stage...smitten by the silver screen...a place to go...a bigger spotlight unconfined, so, THIS is all a kinda big deal for Kurt...I mean if Xavier would've shown up in a director's chair...or did he?

    Kurt's seat is in a private drive in and he's at the wheel but that lonely field is a long long faraway place....and this Saturday nite, it's an obsession...and passion...surely even his faith is in that silver lit night before Sunday.

    I do believe he's the 'leading man' in every film he's ever seen. Great responsibility...not so concerned about the power.


    My Nightcrawler is drawn by John Romita Jr.
    It's not by choice. It just is. But even if I could choose, I think I'd choose JRJR anyway.
    Last edited by sungila; 12-26-2019 at 11:43 AM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  9. #414
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    His favorite movie is Mask of Zorro
    I think Kurt's Hollywood is fixed in a 'classic' expat theater mode, kind of extrapolated a few times over...not just the film itself, but the American theater and the whole culture...a formative imaginary wardrobe and stage...smitten by the silver screen...a place go...so, THIS is all a kinda big deal for Kurt...I mean if Xavier would've shown up in a director's chair...or did he?

    Kurt's seat is in a private drive in and he's at the wheel but that lonely field is a long long faraway place....and this Saturday nite, it's an obsession...and passion...surely even his faith is in that silver lit night before Sunday.


    My Nightcrawler is drawn by John Romita Jr.
    It's not by choice. It just is. But even if I could choose, I think I'd choose JRJR anyway.
    Yeah, old B&W films were cheap for small, provincial, cinemas to show, I’m sure modern America must have been quite a culture shock to young Mr Wagner.

  10. #415
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I just assumed he got taught by Chuck and co, training up lots of people to fly the jet is sensible. And I don’t think he had deep medical training, just enough to make him useful.
    I’d be highly surprised if Kurt had any formal education, given his upbringing, but he’s canonically bright and curious, I bet he was keen to learn.
    In my head canon, he’d be multilingual, due to all the different countries he went to, and the international nature of the circus people. Kids pickup other languages easily if exposed at an early age. But no passport or paperwork. He’d be able to drive a van, to change a tyre, to keep a beat up old vehicle running, but no drivers license, of course.
    He’d be able to read, German, English, possibly French (he’d have read Dumas in French, bet you any money) but I’m less sure about writing and maths, not much use for maths beyond counting the takings in a circus. And those fingers, writing would be hard. He’d not have much, if any exposure to computers before going to the US.

    I may have thought about this too much...
    I agree on his intellect and his curious nature, of course. I think I remember the old Handbook saying he was fast learner. I especially remember those early days of Kurt ooohing and ahhhing at things, especially at Shiar technology, I remember him explaining something to Logan and Kurt was "isnt that amazing?" although Logan wasn't that excited, lol. In my fanfiction world Kurt knows French and was taught it by a french trapese artist. I had a story I never finished of them going to Belgium and him speaking it. I imagine Kurt going to Canada with Logan and using it there.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 12-26-2019 at 05:57 PM.

  11. #416
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Rahnes fear of Kurt was a lot worse than Kitties and lasted longer. In Kitties thought bubbles she'd e actually admonish herself for it. To Kitty he wa simply wierd looking and her flinching was instinctive but to Rahne he was actually evil looking. I actually found Wolfsbane hard to like in the beginning because she was clinging to a religion that taught her own opression through these abuses as a child through reverend Craig. She was basically what Kurt wouldn't become as Kurts faith and is interpretation of god accepted mutants and Kurt had way too much self respect unlike Rahne.
    Interesting parallellism. However, I do like Rahne precisely because she’s a so confused person, so full of complexes and insecurities and hesitations between her drives and her upbringing. She’s often unfair, and she ususally feels bad about it. I know many people find her annoying and ‘not much heroic and noble’ because we’re in a ‘do your very best’ world, but I think a flawed character is more interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I also remember Kurt had medical training and would act as the team medic as well but not since the 80s. God, dust that one off. No offense to Claremont but how did Kurt get medical training and pilot training traveling in that little caravan and him looking the way he does and the fact that circus' dont stay in one place? I wonder where he got it? It never was specified now that I'm thinking more on it, maybe it was at Xaviers and not when he was in the circus? If he was a full on doctor or nurse he would have to go to med or nursing school as opposed to him simply having medical training. Then there is of course piloting school. He also used to be a bit of a tinkerer.
    My exact thoughts about it are the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I just assumed he got taught by Chuck and co, training up lots of people to fly the jet is sensible. And I don’t think he had deep medical training, just enough to make him useful.
    I’d be highly surprised if Kurt had any formal education, given his upbringing, but he’s canonically bright and curious, I bet he was keen to learn.
    In my head canon, he’d be multilingual, due to all the different countries he went to, and the international nature of the circus people. Kids pickup other languages easily if exposed at an early age. But no passport or paperwork. He’d be able to drive a van, to change a tyre, to keep a beat up old vehicle running, but no drivers license, of course.
    He’d be able to read, German, English, possibly French (he’d have read Dumas in French, bet you any money) but I’m less sure about writing and maths, not much use for maths beyond counting the takings in a circus. And those fingers, writing would be hard. He’d not have much, if any exposure to computers before going to the US.

    I may have thought about this too much...
    Yeah, I’ve thought quite a lot about his circus life, too.

    My headcanon is Kurt had first aid training precisely because a nomadic life requires you to be prepared to handle accidents and disease without medical help. Later, given that he was likely the most skilled and his natural inclination to learn, he probably improved his basic knowledge going sort of pro.

    As for piloting and repairing, it’s canon that Xavier was not satisfied till each X-man or X-woman was able to pilot and assemble/disassemble the Blackbird. Just some of them were more interested on it --Rogue, for example, was also a regular mechanic in the X-team.

    Regarding culture, it’s absolutely plausible what Su said about languages. Actually, it’s funny because there was a fancomic titled ‘Li’l Kurt’ (I know I still keep it somewhere) which suggested exactly that: Kurt learnt foreign languages by traveling with the caravan…and watching foreign TV! Plus, have you notice that when Kurt's room or personal belongings are shown there's a lot of books there? How many X-Men do you remember reading for fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    His favorite movie is Mask of Zorro
    Also ‘The Crimson Pirate’

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    I think Kurt's Hollywood is fixed in a 'classic' expat 'another county' theater mode, kind of extrapolated a few times over...not just the film itself, but the American theater and the whole culture...a formative imaginary wardrobe and stage...smitten by the silver screen...a place to go...a bigger spotlight unconfined, so, THIS is all a kinda big deal for Kurt...I mean if Xavier would've shown up in a director's chair...or did he?
    In my headcanon he’s also a great fan of Buster Keaton, master of cool acrobatic slapstick.

    RE: That wonderful Sienkiewicz page in an old video.

    Last edited by Ricochet Rita; 12-29-2019 at 08:10 AM.

  12. #417
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Now you’ve mentioned it, Rita, you have to find Li’l Kurt for me! Would be just cruel not to.

  13. #418
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Interesting parallellism. However, I do like Rahne precisely because she’s a so confused person, so full of complexes and insecurities and hesitations between her drives and her upbringing. She’s often unfair, and she ususally feels bad about it. I know many people find her annoying and ‘not much heroic and noble’ because we’re in a ‘do your very best’ world, but I think a flawed character is more interesting.



    My exact thoughts about it are the following:

    Yeah, I’ve thought quite a lot about his circus life, too.

    My headcanon is Kurt had first aid training precisely because a nomadic life requires you to be prepared to handle accidents and disease without medical help. Later, given that he was likely the most skilled and his natural inclination to learn, he probably improved his basic knowledge going sort of pro.

    As for piloting and repairing, it’s canon that Xavier was not satisfied till each X-man or X-woman was able to pilot and assemble/disassemble the Blackbird. Just some of them were more interested on it --Rogue, for example, was also a regular mechanic in the X-team.

    Regarding culture, it’s absolutely plausible what Su said about languages. Actually, it’s funny because there was a fancomic titled ‘Li’l Kurt’ (I know I still keep it somewhere) which suggested exactly that: Kurt learnt foreign languages by traveling with the caravan…and watching foreign TV! Plus, have you notice that when Kurt's room or personal belongings are shown there's a lot of books there? How many X-Men do you remember reading for fun?



    Also ‘The Crimson Pirate’



    In my headcanon he’s also a great fan of Buster Keaton, master of cool acrobatic slapstick.
    Claremont's X-Men do read books (they are books), watch movies (they are movies), share stories (we are)...very much, his X-Men, are people and inhabit themselves expressively through relationships, their very company is culture, branching dynamically in a circulatory system vibrantly bright as they appear in full color, cinematic and charismatic, uniquely themselves and yet, oh, I see the team arriving in Japan at Logan's pre-wedding apartment, I see them foreign in a foreign land the man they knew and know changed and yet...there is danger...and all this in the smooth and seamless 'classic' physical bodied pop art soap opera white framed panel penciled by Paul Smith, post-Miller...and there's a lot said in the bolded lines I've highlighted from your post Rita. So very much.

    This team as voiced so often by Kurt, who's begun becoming more of a witness, with Scott gone soul questing, Kitty challenging and challenged (an interior protected and held by her teammates her teammates a sort of body and vehicle not just for her but for all of them (inner children and young and always orphaned and abroad), Storm cracking the exteriors of her confining (claustrophobic) contextualized walls, Rogue uncomfortably 'safe' with a team that mistrusts her, Xavier gone (which is when, for me, he's at his best) in Japan where Wolverine (oddly and most iconically as himself at his essential "I'm the best at" BEST)!!!

    Why and how I got here is Kurt BAMFing with Logan outside at the alarm of rattling armor and distress (Yukio outside jumping Silver Samurai, a friend...and much more, out there)...Logan's love...the invitation sent, with the blue cursive note 'hey elf, don't forget the beer' the issue after the next is ROMANCE...as if that need to be said...but it did...and here's the thing...something about this team and Kurt being 'at home' with this team...the team's only teleporter and what that means, and what his mastering that power means, and the toll it takes on him and his passengers and how he strengthens and how that personal struggle somehow integrates into the very integrity of this team...

    hmm,

    The X-Men share interests, they share vulnerability, they go out on dates together, they may or may not and must share more than we see in the panels, and that Yukio rescues herself (is gone) before Kurt can get to her at Logan's command and then who finds her...Storm and who rescues Storm...Yukio and who rescues Yukio...Logan and who rescues Logan...

    Well, you know who I'd choose.

    Thank you for how you always offer your posts in conversation Rita. Maybe you don't notice how you do that or how rare it is and important. But I am always grateful for how you bring things together and people and panels and much more.

    It makes a place...it's the sort of thing that makes an X-Men team book different and knowable apart from other titles. Sincerely.

    It's an elusive 'feeling' to describe. When you know you're in an X-Men world...there'a a speaking language to the narrative where words appear in the spaces left open sometimes lettered in another language: <*> : *

    And it's magic, because I have no idea what language that becomes in my mind as I see it and...do I hear it?

    BAMF

    sounds like black and purple
    with blue
    and yellow

    and motion...

    (oh I have no idea where I slipped and how far I fell...but in the spirit of Buster Keaton...I hope if I fall or get up now with some flare of intention the musical cues will explain what or why...and stave the possible real harm I may have done myself in the act)

    Illyana had playgirls hidden in her room and Xavier had shelves of Grimmores that she consulted (when she needed them to be there), Kitty liked Star Wars comics, one time in outer space Kurt was reading Darwin in the dark, Logan could track the scent of a bear by the blood of its victims' in its blood but not the poison in the arrow...the X-Men were readers reading...sharing story...there are books...and no, never a real permanent place to keep them...and I do relate to that dilemma...of letting things go and holding them close...

    Oh, BTW, Kurt was dressed in a black jumpsuit under his winter parka...he had white boots on...remember?

    Rita could you, might you share more about your thought on Kurt's circus life, that nomadic (story of humankind really isn't it) journey and questing and how culture seeds in places and moves on...from that place(s)...or anything along those or these or actually mostly...um,

    please?

    <*>
    *like running on a moving train in the opposite direction away from the bad guys coming in place at a steady pace behind me...with a landscape of scenery (that shrub for instance) which may been rolled in on wheels...
    Last edited by sungila; 12-29-2019 at 12:10 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

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