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  1. #31
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Please!!!

    You know, I'm not usually Byrne's best fan, but you have completely convinced me. So very well expressed.

    I think JRJR contributed with that splendid aquiline nose and a more mature look in general: Kurt grew to an adult thanks to his pencil.

    As for Alan Davis, who I (and I'm persuaded most of us) think it's the ultimate Nightcrawler's artist, he dares to made him stand straight again. More: he gave him the silhouette of a dancer more than an acrobat, Kurt seemed always about to leap to a pirouette every second. I was delightful to see.
    Alan Davis made Kurt sexy. I certainly think Paul Smith hinted, played at and teased this potential. But from page one of Excalibur there's no doubt about Nightcrawler's new appeal and presence. Ah, I can see him now pinning the classically cut handsome Captain Britain to the wall, I still recall the thrill and surprise of this strength and surety. Standing very much upright center stage agile and androgynous, fluid marble, powerful grace, taught on a Baryshnikov wire set to twirl and pounce with a pirouette jete & allez op. Alan Davis inverted the darkness that had veiled JRJR's Kurt, drawing that realized depth inward with authority and natural agency. An unmistakable shedding of shadow. Yet still very much a man of passionate outlandish yearning, an outsider anguished by impossible ideals with a miraculous innate empathy, a hyperbolic compassion for others fueled by love and self-doubt.

    Never has Nightcrawler shined so brightly, smiled so freely, cut so decivisely or stood so tall and untethered.

    In recent years we've seen so many versions: Todd Nauck's celebration of classic poses dressed in homage with a shinning quality of affection was wonderful to see and gave a respectful and smooth clarity to the jagged hazards of Claremont's queer expression of angst, grief, defeat and stubborn hope in the last of the solos.

    Ed McGuinness is THE contemporary Nightcrawler artist for me. Unmistakably, this is the resurrection elf. (All the other artists just seem to draw pin-ups not true characters fit for the part).

    McGuinness jaunts this fallen acrobat, sword drawn and pointed - right off the page.
    This is the misfit angel. The rouge redeemer. The exile. A sort of anti-Errol Flynn Captain Blood...at the helm of an abandoned ship in search of a crew called family...hopelessly holding course for an errant wind that could blow that vigil candle out with a wish and an away.

    And the shadows have returned...darker than ever.

    9e0acbda3238ac2a629cfd7edee21dae--kurt-wagner-comic-illustrations.jpg
    Last edited by sungila; 01-20-2019 at 02:04 AM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    @ Sundown I think you missed his ability to see in the dark in the intro post. That was introduced in Claremont's Revolutions run way back but not really used again. I'd like to see it mentioned again in newer books.

    You're absolutely right. I didn't even think about adding that. (How lousy would it be for him to blend in shadows and not be able to see in them? Lol)
    I also wish they'd use that more, and even show him sporting sunglasses more outside. It would make sense, with his sensitivity to light.

    This is one of my favorite pictures for showing just how different he is, even though it's simple.



    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Sorry, but all I'm noticing is his polka dot underwear... the hell if he's suffering. You mean he isn't a sexy thong man?I'm terrible.



    In House of M Kurt had a crush on Jen if I remember correctly. I'm not sure about them together, though. It could be fun and it would be reminiscent of Kurt/Cerise (The "lip massage" is definitely a Jen move) but I can't see many of her fans going for it. I go back and forth on the whole Avengers thing. It could be good if handled well.
    I think he and Jen could be cute, but then again I'm all for crossovers with other franchises. (He's actually been written better in those in the past few years than he has been in the X-Men.)

    @Sungila

    I absolutely love McGuinness' Kurt, as well. It's SO much in the spirit of Dave Cockrum, but has it's own life and essence.


    I'd like to see Noto draw him. I enjoyed his stuff in UXF.
    Last edited by Sundown; 01-20-2019 at 06:37 PM.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
    You're absolutely right. I didn't even think about adding that. (How lousy would it be for him to blend in shadows and not be able to see in them? Lol)
    I also wish they'd use that more, and even show him sporting sunglasses more outside. It would make sense, with his sensitivity to light.
    I didn't even know he had a sensitivity to light. When was that introduced?


    Ok, so... I went to the mall the other day and bought a necklace. I'm very picky about the things I wear. I don't go for flashy pieces so naturally I was looking everywhere (because flashy seems to be in these days) and I got something with birds on it cause I like nature and stuff and like an idiot I'm like "Ooh this is nice. I like birds..." I didn't realize until I got home that it is what a guy is supposed to get a girl, y'know I guess it is "lovebirds," and I have no significant other currently so I really like it but felt I should make it more authentic so I stood in front of my Nightcrawler model and attempted to do his voice... in a German accent I say what it says on the back of the pendant... "Leibchen (women's undergarment), love is being with you." And in a high-pitched girly voice I say, "Oh, Kurt..." I was just short of kissing him. I decided to draw the line there.




    I think he may ask me to marry him.

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    @From the Shadows

    It was referenced pre-Excalibur. Someone incapacitated him by exposing him to bright light. Still trying to find (remember) what issue. It's one of those where I can see the panel in my head, but can't remember the rest of the context. I recall it being the first time his facial features could be seen clearly, so it's old.


    I haven't given up yet. :P


    AGE OF X-MAN: THE AMAZING NIGHTCRAWLER #3 (of 5)
    SEANAN MCGUIRE (W)
    JUAN FRIGERI (A)
    Cover by SHANE DAVIS, MICHELLE DELECKI & GURU-EFX
    IN THE CLUTCHES OF TEMPTATION!
    • As Hollywood’s leading man and mascot of the X-Men, Nightcrawler has it all! What more could this American idol still yearn for?
    • Whatever it is, he’ll find it in a hedonistic underground masquerade club!


    This looks more like it may be exploring his worst fears/self doubts with the "mascot" comment.


    I found this one, but it's not the one I was thinking of. (This is UXM120)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Sundown; 01-22-2019 at 01:14 PM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
    @From the Shadows

    It was referenced pre-Excalibur. Someone incapacitated him by exposing him to bright light. Still trying to find (remember) what issue. It's one of those where I can see the panel in my head, but can't remember the rest of the context. I recall it being the first time his facial features could be seen clearly, so it's old.
    UXM #120, maybe?


    This Week's Comics:G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #267, Powers Of X #6 (of 6), Gwenpool Strikes Back #3

  6. #36
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    UXM #120, maybe?

    Yeah, we just posted the same thing. I remember this one, but it seems there was another where he was crouched down on the floor. Ah well, can't think of it or find it.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
    @From the Shadows

    It was referenced pre-Excalibur. Someone incapacitated him by exposing him to bright light. Still trying to find (remember) what issue. It's one of those where I can see the panel in my head, but can't remember the rest of the context. I recall it being the first time his facial features could be seen clearly, so it's old.


    I haven't given up yet. :P


    AGE OF X-MAN: THE AMAZING NIGHTCRAWLER #3 (of 5)
    SEANAN MCGUIRE (W)
    JUAN FRIGERI (A)
    Cover by SHANE DAVIS, MICHELLE DELECKI & GURU-EFX
    IN THE CLUTCHES OF TEMPTATION!
    • As Hollywood’s leading man and mascot of the X-Men, Nightcrawler has it all! What more could this American idol still yearn for?
    • Whatever it is, he’ll find it in a hedonistic underground masquerade club!


    This looks more like it may be exploring his worst fears/self doubts with the "mascot" comment.


    I found this one, but it's not the one I was thinking of. (This is UXM120)
    Huh, I always thought that was just him being blinded by Aurora and Northstars powers not that he was sensitive. You learn something new.

    Not sure what to make of the mini. Sounds like it could be interesting to deal with that again and for it to arise at a time where he has seemed to have achieved fame. I can imagine the tabloids and sites like Perez Hilton having a snarky field day with that. I don't like the hair and outfit, though. It looks dreadful and doesn't compliment him at all, lol.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 01-24-2019 at 12:43 AM.

  8. #38
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    Agree that the light thing is probably open to interpretation, especially considering it's one of those things that has only been shown a few times over the years. It's stated often enough that he's more comfortable in shadow, even reads in the dark and so on, but that still leaves it implied.

    Yeah, I really dislike the look for this solo. Granted, he's been shown with a questionable fashion sense in the past, but this is ..awful.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
    Agree that the light thing is probably open to interpretation, especially considering it's one of those things that has only been shown a few times over the years. It's stated often enough that he's more comfortable in shadow, even reads in the dark and so on, but that still leaves it implied.

    Yeah, I really dislike the look for this solo. Granted, he's been shown with a questionable fashion sense in the past, but this is ..awful.
    I've made the mistake already of being both overly enthusiastic and bitterly dismissive of the upcoming AOX mini...no, I really don't care for the look, but it may very well suit the feel of the books...and still, I don't very much like the art the look dresses...and that does already influence my future reading of this yet to be published offering. A lot of me wishes it was a post-Dumas Basil Rathbone scifi romance novella and not a comic book tie-in to this alternate semi serious allegory of an allegory satire that has already shown itself to be insensitive, self indulgent and crudely nonintuitive.

    It's that tail mostly, that predatory look in the eye...the cut of that fit, tbh, I don't think I really trust this guy to tell me about love in a loveless world.

    I'd far rather read a bearded Kurt post-Red five issue solo. A stand-alone and apart from what's being solicited.


    In other news!
    I've been reading the Classic X-Men Vol 1 Collection and it has these sections that show edits from the original panels and the changes made in order to fix content and it's telling how often Nightcrawler is the subject. His invisibility in shadow is addressed a number of times, his family origin, his memories of childhood, his teleportation capacity - amazing how much a few words in a panel can effect a character's being.

    It's interesting to see the open process and how it mirrors the alternate universes, hints, reveals, retcons, dropped storylines and vagaries writ into the comics.

    Seems Kurt is simply hard to catch hold of. Even for his creators.

    There's that issue of Excalibur where Kurt is being examined and his examiners list off the superlative attributes of his abilities and powers. I guess those are all a part of Nightcrawler...but not really all that necessary to boldly define. It doesn't really matter...I mean the general ideas do...but not the specifics. As a fan of the character I find that the most forced presentations of his biography or biology or genetics to be my least favorite reading and the ephemera and artifacts of such narratives to be of little actual worth.

    For instance, just yesterday I was looking at a TPB of X-Men Gold to see the panels of Kurt talking about how he can longer actually die because heaven and hell won't take him...and the art is great...but the writing is just so...so very bad. I put that book back carefully on the shelf, put my hands in my pockets and walked away.
    Last edited by sungila; 01-24-2019 at 02:05 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  10. #40
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Talking Happy Birthday Jazzy Johnny "Ring-a-Ding" Romita!!!

    Uncanny X-Men #177 Jan 1984
    "Sanction"
    Mystique is in a Circus when Wolverine ambushes her from behind. She dodges, but he still draws blood.
    After a quick but brutal fight she slits his throat and he bleeds out.
    Kitty Pryde phases up out of the ground moments later, and seeing Wolverine down, rushes over to him.
    Its not Wolverine - its Mystique playing dead - and she's just gutted the girl.
    Suddenly the building behind Mystique explodes as a huge hurled stone strikes it, sending her flying.

    Colossus confronts her in a rage, and she realizes Cyclops is also there as he clips her from behind - she retreats into a funhouse hall of mirrors.
    The fun house is really a carefully constructed trap, and she uses it to focus Cyclops optic beam and amplify it until it can penetrate even Colossus's armored body!
    Cyclops, distraught over Peter's death, doesn't notice Mystique as she comes up behind him and garotte's him.

    Having changed into a combat suit, Mystique gets confronted by Storm. But the suit absorbs her lightning, and lets her channel it back at Storm.
    Storm dodges, but Mystique wasn't aiming at Storm, but at the tank of gasoline behind her!
    No longer held aloft by Storm's winds, she falls through the big top, and catches the bars - only to have Rogue try to bring the house down!
    Mystique pulls a blaster on her, and it actually finishes Rogue.
    In agony over having killed her foster daughter, she's totally unprepared for Nightcrawler's attack, however his multi-porting doesn't phase Mystique at all!

    She draws a dagger for the kill, but finds herself unable to follow through - and Nightcrawler knocks her out.

    She comes to with Destiny looking over her. Arcade and Miss Locke come in to celebrate her performance.
    Mystique wants all the Brotherhood to train in Murderworld - same deal, one of the robots will be set to kill.
    Mystique asks which was in hers, and Arcade tells her it was Rogue.
    After Arcade and Miss Locke leaves, Irene tells Mystique that her vendetta against the X-Men is a mistake.
    Salem Center. Kitty is about to leave her dance lessons, and she starts to talk
    to Stevie about Ororo's change in personality when Ororo comes to pick her up.
    But Kitty doesn't want to talk to Ororo right then, and walks past her.

    The Starjammer. Charles and Lilandra say there goodbyes, and Corsair bids his sons farewell.
    The Starjammers leave earth with Lilandra to reclaim her throne.

    Kurt, Amanda Sefton, Kitty and Peter go to see the Royal Ballet at Lincoln Center.
    Peter drops Kurt and Amanda off, then he and Kitty go to park the car.

    Kitty and Peter finally park the car and are walking towards Lincoln Center when they see an explosion on top of a nearby building!
    Colossus rushes up to save anyone he can from the fire while Kitty runs off to call help. However, Colossus finds no fire, only Blob!
    Blob punches Colossus through the wall where he is caught by Pyro's firebird!
    Pyro heats him till he's red hot, then throws him to earth in the midst of semis with liquid nitrogen tanks!
    Avalanche's tidal wave effect sweeps the trucks towards Colossus.
    Kitty rushes towards the scene at the sound of his howl of agony, only to find him a frozen statue!

    NOTE: This is the issue that first suggests that there is a connection between Nightcrawler and Mystique.

    Story by Chris Claremont. Art by John Romita, Jr.
    and John Romita, Sr https://13thdimension.com/13-covers-...celebration-4/
    Imperius Rex!
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  11. #41
    Fantastic Member Sundown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    As a fan of the character I find that the most forced presentations of his biography or biology or genetics to be my least favorite reading and the ephemera and artifacts of such narratives to be of little actual worth.

    For instance, just yesterday I was looking at a TPB of X-Men Gold to see the panels of Kurt talking about how he can longer actually die because heaven and hell won't take him...and the art is great...but the writing is just so...so very bad. I put that book back carefully on the shelf, put my hands in my pockets and walked away.
    Oh yeah, that it was/is. While I want them to not drop yet another plot point with him, I wish someone with some finesse would write it.

    One thing I've noticed over the years with all the X-Men is that their abilities and talents (as well as weaknesses) seem to shift depending on what the writer wants to do for his story. For example with Kurt's death, the writer wanted him to die saving Hope, yet it's not Kurt's practice to teleport in front of a hostile target, always above, behind or to the side. /shrug The writer changed (at that time) 30ish years of canon encounter style to suit the story he wanted (or that editors wanted). And just look at how many times Guggenheim impaled him during his run. Ugh.

    Nightcrawler is blessed with a myriad of talents, so many that few writers bother to use them all.

    Agree that laying them out makes for tedious reading. Same with "feats". It reminds me of those old collector character cards with numbers for strength, endurance, intellect, agility and such.
    Last edited by Sundown; 01-24-2019 at 07:17 PM.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 616MarvelYear is LeapYear View Post
    Uncanny X-Men #177 Jan 1984
    "Sanction"
    Mystique is in a Circus when Wolverine ambushes her from behind. She dodges, but he still draws blood.
    After a quick but brutal fight she slits his throat and he bleeds out.
    Kitty Pryde phases up out of the ground moments later, and seeing Wolverine down, rushes over to him.
    Its not Wolverine - its Mystique playing dead - and she's just gutted the girl.
    Suddenly the building behind Mystique explodes as a huge hurled stone strikes it, sending her flying.

    Colossus confronts her in a rage, and she realizes Cyclops is also there as he clips her from behind - she retreats into a funhouse hall of mirrors.
    The fun house is really a carefully constructed trap, and she uses it to focus Cyclops optic beam and amplify it until it can penetrate even Colossus's armored body!
    Cyclops, distraught over Peter's death, doesn't notice Mystique as she comes up behind him and garotte's him.

    Having changed into a combat suit, Mystique gets confronted by Storm. But the suit absorbs her lightning, and lets her channel it back at Storm.
    Storm dodges, but Mystique wasn't aiming at Storm, but at the tank of gasoline behind her!
    No longer held aloft by Storm's winds, she falls through the big top, and catches the bars - only to have Rogue try to bring the house down!
    Mystique pulls a blaster on her, and it actually finishes Rogue.
    In agony over having killed her foster daughter, she's totally unprepared for Nightcrawler's attack, however his multi-porting doesn't phase Mystique at all!

    She draws a dagger for the kill, but finds herself unable to follow through - and Nightcrawler knocks her out.

    She comes to with Destiny looking over her. Arcade and Miss Locke come in to celebrate her performance.
    Mystique wants all the Brotherhood to train in Murderworld - same deal, one of the robots will be set to kill.
    Mystique asks which was in hers, and Arcade tells her it was Rogue.
    After Arcade and Miss Locke leaves, Irene tells Mystique that her vendetta against the X-Men is a mistake.
    Salem Center. Kitty is about to leave her dance lessons, and she starts to talk
    to Stevie about Ororo's change in personality when Ororo comes to pick her up.
    But Kitty doesn't want to talk to Ororo right then, and walks past her.

    The Starjammer. Charles and Lilandra say there goodbyes, and Corsair bids his sons farewell.
    The Starjammers leave earth with Lilandra to reclaim her throne.

    Kurt, Amanda Sefton, Kitty and Peter go to see the Royal Ballet at Lincoln Center.
    Peter drops Kurt and Amanda off, then he and Kitty go to park the car.

    Kitty and Peter finally park the car and are walking towards Lincoln Center when they see an explosion on top of a nearby building!
    Colossus rushes up to save anyone he can from the fire while Kitty runs off to call help. However, Colossus finds no fire, only Blob!
    Blob punches Colossus through the wall where he is caught by Pyro's firebird!
    Pyro heats him till he's red hot, then throws him to earth in the midst of semis with liquid nitrogen tanks!
    Avalanche's tidal wave effect sweeps the trucks towards Colossus.
    Kitty rushes towards the scene at the sound of his howl of agony, only to find him a frozen statue!

    NOTE: This is the issue that first suggests that there is a connection between Nightcrawler and Mystique.

    Story by Chris Claremont. Art by John Romita, Jr.
    and John Romita, Sr https://13thdimension.com/13-covers-...celebration-4/
    I loved this issue and there are so many juicy bits for Kurt and a nice moment with him and Amanda (love her or hate her). A classic! : )

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundown View Post
    Yeah, I really dislike the look for this solo. Granted, he's been shown with a questionable fashion sense in the past, but this is ..awful.
    You mean stuff like this?


  14. #44
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    You mean stuff like this?

    I actually love this! It makes so much sense that Kurt would wear a mashup of his favorite costumes! And that serious face!!! Adorable! Reminds me of a certain somebody strange and beautiful who was forever...fashioning queer fashions from wrecked wardrobes and dreams

    Attachment 77594
    imagine him in blue...that's it really, just a lot of mascara


    "...swinging an old bouquet..."
    Last edited by sungila; 01-25-2019 at 01:31 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    I actually love this!
    You're kidding right, honey? He looks like a pimp. I think we're gonna have to start questioning your fashion sense as well. *snicker-snort*

    I mean maybe if he lost the hat and those large glasses... Those two things with that... old lady coat and maybe gave himself a Bowie cut, if I could see him into that. I always got the impression Kurt was more of a classic suit guy rather than glam. None of them fit together at all. It looks like he just threw together whatever he could find. Don't get a real Bowie vibe from that Davis panel.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 01-25-2019 at 07:10 PM.

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