Loki Appreciation 2019

[Karabaja]

Thanks, folks
I like Albuquerque variant better. Somehow, I find the gaunt, rough-around-the-edges appearance more suitable for Loki. But that might be just my general dislike for all things too perfect.

[Fanto.mx]

And solicits are out. I've already posted about King Thor and the Avengers thing, so other than that he's just in his own book and he is going up against one of the main baddies from JiM! not Mephisto, but close:




LOKI #3
DANIEL KIBBLESMITH (W) • OSCAR BAZALDUA (A)
COVER BY OZGUR YILDIRIM
WELCOME TO HIS NIGHTMARE!
The nefarious NIGHTMARE has come to Earth, and only Loki, “The God of Nothing,” can stop him from trapping all of New York City into the Nightmare Dimension! But first, he’ll need to strike a bargain with a new and powerful force that will change the Marvel Universe forever. Who or what will Loki become when he steps foot into the mysterious HOUSE OF IDEAS?

so bringing back that House of Ideas thing from Avengers: No Road Home which means we may actually get some God of Stories stuff, even though it calls him 'The God of Nothing' there. Also, since Nightmare is tying into that Acts of Evil thing we may be seeing here how Loki connects to that.

and he seems to have lost his shirt... but not his armor. huh. Maybe that's all there is to his 'thor' transformation?

I know there's not a whole lot of interaction between the MCU and the comics, but Nightmare has been rumored as a Doctor Strange 2 baddie for a while now...and with the Loki TV series, maybe there is a weird web of connections happening here.

Also: NIGHTMARE!

[Raye]

So I am pretty stoked about this, because Nightmare was one of the main baddies in Journey Into Mystery, and I think it would be cool for him and Loki to have a rematch, even if it is technically a different Loki. If Loki’s gonna do the hero thing, he needs a rogues gallery, and Nightmare is a fine place to start, given the history there. (since I am assuming Malekith and Laufey will bite the dust in WotR)

And Nightmare is ALSO talking part in the Acts of Evil annual event taking place at the same time this issue comes out, so I am wondering if this is what connects those two events together.

[Snoop Dogg]

I completely forgot Nightmare was in Terrorism Myth and don't like him much, but I'm excited for this specifically since in many ways he's Loki high on bath salts. I hope his pimp black unicorn appears!

[Prof. Aegis]

And solicits are out. I've already posted about King Thor and the Avengers thing, so other than that he's just in his own book and he is going up against one of the main baddies from JiM! not Mephisto, but close:




LOKI #3
DANIEL KIBBLESMITH (W) • OSCAR BAZALDUA (A)
COVER BY OZGUR YILDIRIM
WELCOME TO HIS NIGHTMARE!
The nefarious NIGHTMARE has come to Earth, and only Loki, “The God of Nothing,” can stop him from trapping all of New York City into the Nightmare Dimension! But first, he’ll need to strike a bargain with a new and powerful force that will change the Marvel Universe forever. Who or what will Loki become when he steps foot into the mysterious HOUSE OF IDEAS?

so bringing back that House of Ideas thing from Avengers: No Road Home which means we may actually get some God of Stories stuff, even though it calls him 'The God of Nothing' there. Also, since Nightmare is tying into that Acts of Evil thing we may be seeing here how Loki connects to that.

and he seems to have lost his shirt... but not his armor. huh. Maybe that's all there is to his 'thor' transformation?

I'm liking this series already, just based on the covers and solicits. God of Nothing sounds intriguing as if this is a new title for him, or just this story, and what would "Nothing" truly be referring too? It seems it could have several meanings. Plus with this cover, Loki is reaching for his crown/headpiece. Is that significant? Does that refer to him losing something of himself? Can't wait for this series to start!

Oh, I dig the Luppaccino cover, I like it just showing a different style to Loki. One of the things I enjoyed about AoA was his various outfits. The Albuquerque cover is okay. I like the overall design and style, just not connecting with the face.

Raye - where did you hear about the first storyarc title?

[Raye]

It says 'Trust Me' on the Alburquerque cover, so i am just kind of assuming that may be the name of the arc... may be wrong about that tho.

I can't say I am particularly interested in Nightmare from the perspective of who he is on a character level.... but because of his whole deal with, well, nightmares, and fear, stories with him can often be interesting because of what it reveals about what the hero of the story fears, if you get a look into their nightmares via Nightmare's shenanigans. So that can be interesting, and could be particularly revealing with Loki right now, who is in a transitional state, so his fears have probably changed during that time. At the moment, based on what we know of him right now and what we saw in that issue of Thor, I'd imagine he fears falling off the wagon and becoming the villain again, but you never know, he probably has additional fears besides that. And also, as mentioned this does have story callback potential to JiM, so that should add another layer of interest, and it kinda sets Nightmare up as Loki's first real recurring villain, unless you count that one scene from Agent of Asgard with Mephisto. I have a feeling Loki will be borrowing from Dr Strange's rogues gallery pretty heavily overall, in addition to the usual Thor baddies, to get things started.

'God of Nothing' could just be a reference to the fact that he tried changing his role but nothing seemed to stick, so he's not really the god of lies or evil any more, because that's not who he is as a person, but trying to become the god of Stories or whatever didn't seem to work, so what's he a god OF, then?

as for the crown, I also notice that it's a different design with a peak in the middle and the Jotunheim symbol in the middle rather than his usual V type deal, so it might me something Jotunheim related specifically. Also, as mentioned before, his costume is different in that he's lacking a shirt, and also he seems more ripped? tho it may just be the foreshortening playing tricks. so... I do think this may be his Thor look, which isn't a lot of a change, but... but it also feels like this issue may see a costume change for him. If it does, fingers crossed it's a good one.

[Rosebunse]

I was thinking about how in Norse myth, Loki is considered the god of a lot of things, almost as though they sort of gave him whatever jobs they couldn't think woukd fit anyone else. So while I don't think that's the same thing here, it could be a reference to that, as well as his trying to break away from his other titles.

If someone else does take his spot in the Norse pantheon, he'll sort of be a bit titleless.

[Riimi]

Okay, I am excited! I was starting to wonder when we'd see him do some actual hero-ing vs a baddie, and here we are (he could in the first two issues, too, but it's not as clear). Back when Acts of Evil started and we thought Loki might be involved more heavily, I thought that Nightmare would make a great antagonist for him. Loki's really strong in the typical ways (Asgardian, master sorcerer), so attacking him via other avenues has a lot of potential. He also has a lot of baggage, and we've seen that he's terrified of becoming evil again (although, as Raye said, he could have additional fears), making it an interesting matchup from the pure view of power differential and presenting a plausible challenge. I don't know much about Nightmare personality wise (I've only seen him in JiM and once in Squirrel Girl), so maybe I'll hate him, but right now I'm hoping that we're seeing the beginnings of a Rogue's gallery. And I think it's fine to pull a bit from Strange.

Ideally, I'd like rogues for him that are the embodiment of some archetypal evil (and I'd love Mephisto to be one of his predominant rogues, I think the powerlevel could work out and my impression is that Mephisto shows up in places but doesn't have an arch-rival). Mostly, I'd like this because of who and what Loki was. He was one of them, once. In a way, he essentially rebelled against what all these people are still following, adding a personal dimension to the conflict. In a weird way, I could see some in the villainous world seeing his face turn as a betrayal, if only because it weakened their ranks. To the villains, he'd be a reminder of who they could be, if only they chose to change. To him, such rogues would invoke guilt for what he was and be a constant reminder of what he could still become.

Now I'm just going to take a second to laugh at the Lokis in September's solicits. Loki Unleashed: Past Loki being evil. King Thor: Future Loki being waaaaaay evil. Loki: Present Loki doing his best to save NYC from Nightmare. I am curious how Thor's going to work out, because I already thought we were on a divergent timeline, but maybe not. However, I don't think Aaron is going to make a big presentation of redeeming Loki and then just undo that. Time travel has been a thing before. My way out there fan theory is that his grand-daughters go to get ALL the Thors with the time diamonds, and that they get maybe a tiny bit confused when they run into him but decide to bring him along. In a way, I was very pleased with Loki: Unleashed, because it makes it all but clear that present day Loki is off the table for villainous shenanigans. Even if Stern wanted to use his Loki particularly, having past and future Loki team up (and then try to betray each other) would be super tempting. But no-- if you want an evil Loki, you have to use past Loki, or Future Loki, or probably Universe to the Left's Loki (I would prefer it if there were few good multiversal Loki's, makes his face turn special).

I think Raye has it right when it comes to the "God of Nothing" title. Interesting that one of the two previous solicits lists all his titles (don't remember which). So this might still have a bit of a search for identity like we've seen in past Loki books, but from a more positive starting point.

Also, now I really want him and Raz to be a thing (hadn't responded after Raye posted that and then the solicits dropped, lol).

[Prof. Aegis]

...I thought that Nightmare would make a great antagonist for him. Loki's really strong in the typical ways (Asgardian, master sorcerer), so attacking him via other avenues has a lot of potential.

Ideally, I'd like rogues for him that are the embodiment of some archetypal evil (and I'd love Mephisto to be one of his predominant rogues, I think the powerlevel could work out and my impression is that Mephisto shows up in places but doesn't have an arch-rival). Mostly, I'd like this because of who and what Loki was. He was one of them, once. In a way, he essentially rebelled against what all these people are still following, adding a personal dimension to the conflict. In a weird way, I could see some in the villainous world seeing his face turn as a betrayal, if only because it weakened their ranks. To the villains, he'd be a reminder of who they could be, if only they chose to change. To him, such rogues would invoke guilt for what he was and be a constant reminder of what he could still become.

Now I'm just going to take a second to laugh at the Lokis in September's solicits. Loki Unleashed: Past Loki being evil. King Thor: Future Loki being waaaaaay evil. Loki: Present Loki doing his best to save NYC from Nightmare. I am curious how Thor's going to work out, because I already thought we were on a divergent timeline, but maybe not. However, I don't think Aaron is going to make a big presentation of redeeming Loki and then just undo that. Time travel has been a thing before. My way out there fan theory is that his grand-daughters go to get ALL the Thors with the time diamonds, and that they get maybe a tiny bit confused when they run into him but decide to bring him along. In a way, I was very pleased with Loki: Unleashed, because it makes it all but clear that present day Loki is off the table for villainous shenanigans. Even if Stern wanted to use his Loki particularly, having past and future Loki team up (and then try to betray each other) would be super tempting. But no-- if you want an evil Loki, you have to use past Loki, or Future Loki, or probably Universe to the Left's Loki (I would prefer it if there were few good multiversal Loki's, makes his face turn special).

I think Raye has it right when it comes to the "God of Nothing" title. Interesting that one of the two previous solicits lists all his titles (don't remember which). So this might still have a bit of a search for identity like we've seen in past Loki books, but from a more positive starting point.

I do agree that for this series to have lasting power, beyond strong writing, Loki needs to have his own rogues...Nightmare could be one, but I've never seen him to be a strong adversary. He's good for certain stories, but never seems to have a lot of strength in being a good adversary. Loki and Mephisto have history and great tales they can pull from by always trying to outsmart each other. for Loki, I don't see it having to be someone with power, but definitely wit. Perhaps Kibblesmith will be able to create a new character that really connects with Loki that way or use an existing character that hasn't had a lot of use or stories and build them up.

As for Aaron and King Loki, it was established sometime ago, in AoA and Aaron's Thor, that King Loki would be there at the end. Is it our Loki pulled in to his expected evil nature or a divergent Loki of a different timeline that does so? That was one of the questions in AoA, so it'll be interesting to see what occurs. And yes, with Stern's story, since he's writing an Avengers story of the past, it's only fitting he uses the Loki of that timeframe.

I like the idea that Loki has lost everything and is not a God of anything. But I almost feel that's too easy and for Loki it would need more depth of concepts. Meaning that he is Lord of an ideal, or of what others consider to be nothing, but to Loki has such potential. Maybe it's not a tangible thing, maybe its something of a thought, idea, or something that others dismiss. But it could be me just wanting more out of it.

[Rosebunse]

In the description, it says that Loki has to go to something called the House of Ideas. I wonder if that is going to be a sort of metaphorical construct of, like, the writers room of the MU or something. Or where failed ideas exist, sort ofnlike a universal database? With that in mind, this could be setting Loki up for a major power boost, but then that is still leaning back towards a role that didn't fit him before.

I agree, Nightmare has never had the same popularity as Mephisto. His design is sort of a mess, especially since he sort of comes across as a very poor man's Dream of the Endless. Even in JiM, he wasn't really that hard to be dealt with. Ultimately, he was just another tool of Ikol.

Sort of wouldn't mind seeing Loki hook up with his son, Trauma, though.

[Raye]

The House of Ideas is an actual place, Vision went there in Avengers No Road Home, it allows whoever goes there to mess with the story of the MU, or at least call upon it's history. It was very obviously an Al Ewing creation and it felt a lot like an idea he kind of meant for Loki but never got to.

Ideally, I'd like rogues for him that are the embodiment of some archetypal evil (and I'd love Mephisto to be one of his predominant rogues, I think the powerlevel could work out and my impression is that Mephisto shows up in places but doesn't have an arch-rival). Mostly, I'd like this because of who and what Loki was. He was one of them, once. In a way, he essentially rebelled against what all these people are still following, adding a personal dimension to the conflict. In a weird way, I could see some in the villainous world seeing his face turn as a betrayal, if only because it weakened their ranks. To the villains, he'd be a reminder of who they could be, if only they chose to change. To him, such rogues would invoke guilt for what he was and be a constant reminder of what he could still become.

Yeah, I think a sort of primal evil type character would be good for Loki. Mephisto really would be perfect, but he seems to be busy with the Avengers right now, so that may have to wait. But I think there needs to be some variety, including some goofy villains. Just make it so his main adversary isn't always himself. that's getting a bit old.

Now I'm just going to take a second to laugh at the Lokis in September's solicits. Loki Unleashed: Past Loki being evil. King Thor: Future Loki being waaaaaay evil. Loki: Present Loki doing his best to save NYC from Nightmare. I am curious how Thor's going to work out, because I already thought we were on a divergent timeline, but maybe not. However, I don't think Aaron is going to make a big presentation of redeeming Loki and then just undo that. Time travel has been a thing before. My way out there fan theory is that his grand-daughters go to get ALL the Thors with the time diamonds, and that they get maybe a tiny bit confused when they run into him but decide to bring him along. In a way, I was very pleased with Loki: Unleashed, because it makes it all but clear that present day Loki is off the table for villainous shenanigans. Even if Stern wanted to use his Loki particularly, having past and future Loki team up (and then try to betray each other) would be super tempting. But no-- if you want an evil Loki, you have to use past Loki, or Future Loki, or probably Universe to the Left's Loki (I would prefer it if there were few good multiversal Loki's, makes his face turn special).

I think Stern likely just wanted to, or was hired to, write something very classic. Marvel seems to do occasional bone throws to the old-school fans, who just wanted everything to stay as it was in whatever their preferred era was, and this seems to be one of them. Seems to be kinda ramping up a bit with the 80th anniversary, and the whole history of the MU thing, you've got Claremont in there too, doing a New Mutants thing set in the past as well, and stuff. Not something I personally am terribly interested in, but hey, better to do flashback or out of continuity stories with some of the clasisic creators than regressing the main line in an attempt to please the traditionalists, so whatever, everyone gets something this way.

That being said, I am wondering if there might be some hints of things to come inserted for the various characters involved, including Loki. Though it isn't just Loki that's changed a lot from that lineup, even if his change is probably the most extreme, so it might be interesting to sure, keep it classic, but maybe show some early signs of where they'll end up. i doubt it will happen though.

But yes, it is kind weird/funny that we have 2 evil Lokis in the past and future, and then in the present he's like, saving New York from Nightmare. Such a contrast. I just hope that with the King Thor storyline, either the Loki in the future's motivations are being misunderstood somehow, that future is prevented, or, at the very least, his turn back to the dark side doesn't happen for a looooong time, so we can still have years of stories with good guy Loki.

But uh, no present day Thor story that month, which is a little strange. I didn't get the impression from the last batch of solicits that it was the final issue, so I'm not sure what gives here?

Also, now I really want him and Raz to be a thing (hadn't responded after Raye posted that and then the solicits dropped, lol).

right? I think it could work, he's a nice guy, smart, and has powers so they could do adventures together. and he literally just went on a quest to avenge Loki's death, (not by his own choice, and he was the one who chose to NOT kill Ymir, but still) so why the hell not? Not like he has a lot else going on right now.

I do agree that for this series to have lasting power, beyond strong writing, Loki needs to have his own rogues...Nightmare could be one, but I've never seen him to be a strong adversary. He's good for certain stories, but never seems to have a lot of strength in being a good adversary. Loki and Mephisto have history and great tales they can pull from by always trying to outsmart each other. for Loki, I don't see it having to be someone with power, but definitely wit. Perhaps Kibblesmith will be able to create a new character that really connects with Loki that way or use an existing character that hasn't had a lot of use or stories and build them up.

Yeah, I don't see Nightmare being his primary bad guy, he's kind of a one trick pony, but I think he'll still be a good first step in building a rogues gallery, which is a really hard thing to do. Some heroes have been around for decades and still have jack all for a rogues gallery. He'll have to borrow some to start out, but eventually I'd like to see some that he can call his own, but new characters have a hard time catching on.

I like the idea that Loki has lost everything and is not a God of anything. But I almost feel that's too easy and for Loki it would need more depth of concepts. Meaning that he is Lord of an ideal, or of what others consider to be nothing, but to Loki has such potential. Maybe it's not a tangible thing, maybe its something of a thought, idea, or something that others dismiss. But it could be me just wanting more out of it.

I'm not sure if it's so much a title of what he is so much as what he isn't, and he's still trying to find out what he actually is, if he's not any of the things he's tried to label himself as. I think it could end up being that either he actually finds a new label that fits, or decides labels are too restrictive, that he doesn't need to be a 'god of ___' he just has to be Loki.

[dr4conianlaw]

If you think about it, the House of Ideas will basically be Loki's latest in a series of visits to whitespace. First there was the Mother's realm in YA vol. 2, then he spent the entire last issue of AOA in whitespace between universes. I admit I'm curious if they'll acknowledge that history in his visit to the House of Ideas.

Incidentally, since Gwenpool visits whitespace too, I always thought it would be fun if they could have some kind of crossover team up involving it.

[Raye]

Yeah, and it may be that here we get a definitive answer about the whole 'God of Stories' thing, since the House of Ideas pretty much is the center of the 'story' aspect of the MU, so we may find out why it never took, even though Loki has entered this whitespace, the gutters, before, and manipulated the story in other ways, like with Cul. (that was Kid Loki, but still)

[Rosebunse]

I still don't think that the God of Stories thing was wrong so much as it was Loki, again, trying to make hinself look better than he really ever was. It's another case of him trying to have his cake and eat it too.

[Raye]

I think I sorta agree, assuming I get what you're saying, that he was treating it as a more superficial change, and that simply declaring a new role, that he would be something different. BUT, I don't think it was about him making himself look 'better' than he was, but he did hope it would help make him better. He does not think highly of himself right now, he thinks he's trash, I think he's actually better (right now, not in the past) than he thinks. But the title had nothing to do with how highly he thought of himself, exactly... just, he knew he didn't want to be what he had been defined as by others, and wanted to define himself, and that seemed to fit, and would be a role that would allow him to be the kind of person he wanted. What he missed is that you can't just choose to be seen a certain way by slapping a new title on yourself, it has to be earned.

He had never been defined solely by others, it had always been himself that defined him as those labels that he no longer wanted, but it wasn't because he just decided to slap those labels on himself back in the day. It was because we are defined based on actions, not intent. He behaved in a mischevous way, so he got defined as the god of Mischief. He behaved in an evil way, so also became the God of Evil, behaved chaotically, became the God of Chaos. etc. If he wants to change his role, he can't just pick a title, he has to act a certain way and the role will change as people's perception of him changes based on those actions, it won't be something he chooses, it will just happen. It's not simple, though, because he's poisoned the well with his previous actions, so people are not going to give him opportunities to prove himself, and he has to balance out all the bad he's done, which makes things a lot harder. Plus he's a god, which means he operates by somewhat different rules and is more governed by fate than most, so he's going to find it extra difficult to break his old patterns, JiM explained this sort of inertia thing really well. the whole role swith thing with all the Asgardians at the end of WotR may be a sort of workaround, but the principle remains, actions determine the role, not just declaring yourself a new thing. Assuming we are right, and in a few days he gets Mjolnir, and is the new 'Thor'... that label won't change who he is, he'll still be Loki. What it does give him, though, is a way for people to give him a chance to prove himself with his actions, because they trust that hunk of uru more than they do him. They trust it because of the actions of the previous people who held that title, and those actions defined that role. The hammer just can see in him that he won't undermine what the role has come to represent with his actions, and if he does, he will become unworthy again. If his actions ever betray the role, it is no longer his to hold.

all that being said, I still think a visit to the House of Ideas and addressing the 'God of Stories' thing in actual text would be valuable, since up until now it is mostly just implied by events, since he wasn't the central focus.