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  1. #1066
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    i think he is but it's about whether the title actually sticks or not. No one really knows where previous titles come from whether it's from others or whether the gods dubbed themselves it. What we do know is that the titles stuck and we came to accept them as those titles.

    More than that I think the question that will asked and answered going forward in Loki is what is a God of stories? What does it really mean?

    I reread the Solicit for Loki #4 and it mentions the new power/curse in that issues not #3 so there's still a chance he will still get a new power/curse.

  2. #1067
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    I think the title stuck, it's just a case of writers working with it and whatever powerset it entails based on what he already has and finding new ways of using them. Ewing may have been very extra here, whereas Aaron didn't even bother and now Kibblesmith is finding ways of using it in the story as opposed to beating us over the head with it. The title is no different than the others imo, Mischief probably was self proclaimed, whilst Lies likely came from everybody reacting to his actions and Evil on the very extreme end of that spectrum when he chose to be the thing everyone saw him as. It's all relative and writer dependent but not outside the realm of possibility.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 09-12-2019 at 08:32 PM.

  3. #1068
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    I'm looking at the solicit for #4:

    "EARTH'S CLEVEREST HERO!
    Loki's death has been foretold by THE CHILDREN OF ETERNITY, the Fear Lord NIGHTMARE has come for vengeance, and among the FROST GIANTS, rebellion is brewing. Is even Loki clever enough to stay one step ahead this time? Perhaps now that he's cursed with a brand new power that will forever transform The Marvel Universe's most dashing scoundrel as he begins a new journey into the biggest mystery of all!"

    So to me, this reads more like what he got from Then and Now is a curse and it's going to begin effecting him in #4, which makes sense since it'll be the first full issue he's had it in. Giving him another new power on top of this would just be too much and could lead to making him over-powered.

    There are a few ways I can see this being a curse for Loki. The first is that the weird time stuff may mess with his head so much that he can't be as clever as he usually is.

    The other is that by having so many stories, Loki himself may end up literally divided, with each Loki going on different adventures and none of them being quite as strong as one whole Loki normally would. You also might even have those different Lokis being like his past selves, which could end up very dangerous.

    It might also be that Loki can't fully remember his other adventures and thus really doesn't know what else is happening, which could mirror how he's unaware of what Frosti's doing.

    But I'm not sure how any of these could enable him to get away from Nightmare, because all of them sound pretty debilitating, so I'm probably wrong.

  4. #1069
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    I'm still not sure about Now and Then giving Loki what he wants, it has the appearance of it but I'm super suspicious that it's more about them getting what they want and Loki is the literal pawn in their game, just as that little chess game they played. I was practically screaming for Loki not to sign that book, even he knows it's not terribly smart but he is bored and so he'll blindly dive into whatever mess comes out of this just to stave that off.

  5. #1070
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    I don’t think Now and Then can truly give Loki what he wants because they don’t really have the power to do that, not really because the power for that lies in whoever is writing Loki at the time. I think it’s more they are setting up events that will hopefully lead to a different outcome, which is looks like it does in one way but still leads up to the events of the end of all things regardless. It’s just not Loki who is the cause this time.

    On Loki’s curse. It could be anything, but my main guess is that hazy memories and not quite knowing what is going on, which could cause Loki a lot of problems.

    I do kind of like the idea of Loki being divided though. I think that could have a lot of potential to it.

  6. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I'm still not sure about Now and Then giving Loki what he wants, it has the appearance of it but I'm super suspicious that it's more about them getting what they want and Loki is the literal pawn in their game, just as that little chess game they played. I was practically screaming for Loki not to sign that book, even he knows it's not terribly smart but he is bored and so he'll blindly dive into whatever mess comes out of this just to stave that off.
    Yeah, that was pretty frustrating. Like, it's so obvious that it's a trap! I just keep coming back to these kids being the weird guy in a white van offering out candy and Loki just being, "Candy!"

    Normally it would be pretty annoying, but it is painfully in character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lambadelta View Post
    I don’t think Now and Then can truly give Loki what he wants because they don’t really have the power to do that, not really because the power for that lies in whoever is writing Loki at the time. I think it’s more they are setting up events that will hopefully lead to a different outcome, which is looks like it does in one way but still leads up to the events of the end of all things regardless. It’s just not Loki who is the cause this time.

    On Loki’s curse. It could be anything, but my main guess is that hazy memories and not quite knowing what is going on, which could cause Loki a lot of problems.

    I do kind of like the idea of Loki being divided though. I think that could have a lot of potential to it.
    It just seems like they really targeted Loki, which the more I think about it, seems pretty dangerous on their part for whatever they're doing.

    Well, he might not even be aware that he's being divided up until something happens to the other Lokis, but then his memories will be jumbled up, which could be pretty debilitating, especially since this seems to have allowed Nightmare of all people to get the jump on him. Of course, part of the "curse" part seems to be that Loki doesn't even know he's made this deal, so any weird changes are bound to be pretty disorientating because there's no way to prepare for them.

  7. #1072
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    I just don't see WHY they would target him without some larger reason though. We're not talking Mephisto here, whose whole deal is to mess with people for shits and giggles, we're talking cosmic entities that govern the timeline. They have ZERO reason to take a personal interest in Loki. None. Unless he somehow is damaging to the timeline. There has to be a larger reason behind this, and I don't think it is a bad one, I think they are trying to simply preserve the timeline using the tools available to them. They are being deceptive and shady in their methods, sure, but I think their intentions are likely good overall when you look at the bigger picture, of which Loki is just a small part. That is a long way from being malicious and messing with Loki's life just for the lulz. It's very similar to how Loki's been operating the past few years, really, which is why I think he may learn a lesson from all this.

    And I think you're overestimating how much this can impact him negatively in terms of being 'split up'. If Thor, Wolverine, Spider-Man, and dozens of others are dealing with it just fine, to the the point where it appears they don't even notice anything is amiss, why would it be crippling for Loki? I think it's being made a plot point with Loki for a reason, sure, but I think the 'curse' aspect is simply that he is now fated to die in the future. And that he still has not managed to escape fate, he's just trapped in a different one this time. If anything, I think Loki will find some way to turn this around and use this new ability in a conscious way rather than the purely unconscious way that other characters do.

    As for God of Stories... it's just that the more i think about it, him just kind of declaring a new role for himself makes less and less sense to me. For one, it kind of makes things too easy, if he can just declare a new role for himsellf any time he wishes, and that comes with powers related to that etc. It's just too easy. Also, he is a god, and part of that is having adherents. I think part of being a god, one of the tradeoffs, is that you are defined by what believers think you are. I think this is why the gods have such a hard time changing roles, because they are defined by the people, and changing your role should have to come with changing their perception of you, which takes time and effort.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-13-2019 at 07:04 AM.

  8. #1073
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    I also think there may be an undercurrent here that this is happening because the norns are gone. That represents a bit of a crisis for how all of this should work.

    I don't think there are any direct indications yet, but it makes good sense that basically this was all outsourced to his local branch of fate...but that branch closed down, so now his (and the rest of the Asgardians') fate account is bumped up the chain to this "home office."

  9. #1074
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    That might be. The only kink in that idea that i can think of is that Now and Then said they had previously offered this deal to Thor, we don't know how long ago, but it means they had been involved with Asgard's affairs before the Nornkeep fell. But there was a bit of dialogue where it said they gave the extra pages to Thor becauuse he was fated to do too many things, so it may be that the Norns wrote too much stuff for him to do, so Now and Then had to step in to make it all work.

  10. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I just don't see WHY they would target him without some larger reason though. We're not talking Mephisto here, whose whole deal is to mess with people for shits and giggles, we're talking cosmic entities that govern the timeline. They have ZERO reason to take a personal interest in Loki. None. Unless he somehow is damaging to the timeline. There has to be a larger reason behind this, and I don't think it is a bad one, I think they are trying to simply preserve the timeline using the tools available to them. They are being deceptive and shady in their methods, sure, but I think their intentions are likely good overall when you look at the bigger picture, of which Loki is just a small part. That is a long way from being malicious and messing with Loki's life just for the lulz. It's very similar to how Loki's been operating the past few years, really, which is why I think he may learn a lesson from all this.

    And I think you're overestimating how much this can impact him negatively in terms of being 'split up'. If Thor, Wolverine, Spider-Man, and dozens of others are dealing with it just fine, to the the point where it appears they don't even notice anything is amiss, why would it be crippling for Loki? I think it's being made a plot point with Loki for a reason, sure, but I think the 'curse' aspect is simply that he is now fated to die in the future. And that he still has not managed to escape fate, he's just trapped in a different one this time. If anything, I think Loki will find some way to turn this around and use this new ability in a conscious way rather than the purely unconscious way that other characters do.

    As for God of Stories... it's just that the more i think about it, him just kind of declaring a new role for himself makes less and less sense to me. For one, it kind of makes things too easy, if he can just declare a new role for himsellf any time he wishes, and that comes with powers related to that etc. It's just too easy. Also, he is a god, and part of that is having adherents. I think part of being a god, one of the tradeoffs, is that you are defined by what believers think you are. I think this is why the gods have such a hard time changing roles, because they are defined by the people, and changing your role should have to come with changing their perception of you, which takes time and effort.
    Well, you're right, they may be trying to save the timeline, but Loki himself could be considered a bit of a stain on that because of how his powers have always worked. Plus, his reincarnation probably will end up having some sort of consequence. The question is, what?

    Maybe these kids aren't so evil, but they are acting as antagonists at the time in the story, so I think that's why a lot of us here feel a bit hostile to them. Doesn't help that we don't even know what's going on, so we're extra suspicious.

    One reason I'm guessing that we negative consequences sooner rather than later is to provide clues to the characters themselves. If Loki's deal is the same as with the others, then he's not going to notice it since he hasn't noticed what happened to the others. Also, I mean, Nightmare got the jump on him. Nightmare of all people!

    I do agree with you a bit here, it was too easy to just declare himself God of Stories. It was again him looking for the easy way out. I mean, you can't be the God of Stories and not the God of Lies at the same time. But Kibblesmith is making a case that losing the title is one he rather misses. While it was the easy way out, it was also something that he did work for and which he did accomplish something pretty cool with. And it isn't just losing that title that has him messed up, but all of the other titles too.

  11. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Silver Quickly View Post
    I also think there may be an undercurrent here that this is happening because the norns are gone. That represents a bit of a crisis for how all of this should work.

    I don't think there are any direct indications yet, but it makes good sense that basically this was all outsourced to his local branch of fate...but that branch closed down, so now his (and the rest of the Asgardians') fate account is bumped up the chain to this "home office."
    It is fun to see all the different "offices" of the cosmic hierarchy. But you do bring up a good point that because of this, our understanding of Fate for the Asgardians does need to be a bit different than what we're used to.

  12. #1077
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    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Loki giving himself the title “God of stories” instead of someone else, especially since the problem he has is that everyone wants him to be the “God of lies” since it suits them. So, this is a way for Loki to take back some control of his fate and how maybe future people perceive him.

    I also don’t think “God of stories” comes with new powers because for all intents and purposes it’s merely a title. Loki’s powers are just his own or rather whatever the writers want them to be because quite honestly Loki can almost pretty much do anything. I put the emphasis on almost here.

    Now and Then aren’t antagonists to me they are merely plot devices that are setting up Loki’s story. It’s probably very unlikely we’ll see them again, or at least not any time soon. I also, as I said before, that I don’t think they are sinister intentions.

    Yes, in a way you could say they targeted him, in a way that they are using him as a pawn/the butterfly to fix the future where everything ends. Loki is just one God in a very large pond and if it’s the choice of saving one God vs. saving billions of lives and the multiverse itself then of course they are going to choose the latter.

    And at the end of the day Loki gets the better end of the deal here because he will basically live the life he’s always dreamed, well what he’s dreamt of recently at least because the old Loki didn’t want to be the hero but wanted to be king.

    Of course it’s going to backfire badly as we know that the future is still doomed to end, except this time it’s not Loki who is at fault for it, and even in King Thor there could still be a major twist there; although it’s looks unlikely but I still have hope.

    Overall Now and Then aren’t antagonist but rather plot devices who are setting up Loki’s story.
    Last edited by Lambadelta; 09-13-2019 at 08:21 AM.

  13. #1078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Well, you're right, they may be trying to save the timeline, but Loki himself could be considered a bit of a stain on that because of how his powers have always worked. Plus, his reincarnation probably will end up having some sort of consequence. The question is, what?
    Which powers are you talking about? If you're talking about the couple of other times he's messed with the past, I mean, it's not like other characters haven't done worse. Kang exists. Doom, Reed, etc. they've all mucked with the timeline to a far greater extent than Loki ever has. Even Thor, pulling past and future versions of himself through the timestream and teaming up with himself on multiple occasions. I don't think they care too much about time travelers, if they are letting all that go on. As for the reincarnation thing... I mean he never got reincarnated during WotR, and it was implied, though not explicitly stated, that it was because he was destined for Valhalla rather than Hel. He ended up stuck in his father's gut because all the Valkyries were dead, and unable to guide him to Valhalla. So that may be why he has to die as a hero in this scenario, the reincarnation only seems to kick i when he's destined for Hel. If he's destined for Valhalla, no resurrection.

    Maybe these kids aren't so evil, but they are acting as antagonists at the time in the story, so I think that's why a lot of us here feel a bit hostile to them. Doesn't help that we don't even know what's going on, so we're extra suspicious.
    Yeah, but antagonist doesn't mean evil, and just because it has a negative effect for Loki doesn't mean hurting him is the goal, is all I am saying. And it's not as if Loki hasn't hurt others with his ends justify the means approaches over the past few years, even if his intentions have been good. I'm sure Freyja had some big problems with him stabbing her, Namor was real pissed about a Celestial landing on his house. It doesn't mean Loki's intentions there were bad overall, but it did have negative consequences for some people. But he kind of needs to be made to realize that these kinds of methods can have bad effects on people, and I think the best way to do that is to have him be on the receiving end.

    One reason I'm guessing that we negative consequences sooner rather than later is to provide clues to the characters themselves. If Loki's deal is the same as with the others, then he's not going to notice it since he hasn't noticed what happened to the others. Also, I mean, Nightmare got the jump on him. Nightmare of all people!
    I mean, I don't see the problem with Nightmare surprising him like that, i think he would have done the same with most other characters in a similar situation. Loki can't be in complete control at all times, or there are no stakes, no risk to him, so... he's got to be taken by surprise sometimes and put on the defensive.

    I do agree with you a bit here, it was too easy to just declare himself God of Stories. It was again him looking for the easy way out. I mean, you can't be the God of Stories and not the God of Lies at the same time. But Kibblesmith is making a case that losing the title is one he rather misses. While it was the easy way out, it was also something that he did work for and which he did accomplish something pretty cool with. And it isn't just losing that title that has him messed up, but all of the other titles too.
    I think he misses it more because that was his way out of his fate, and it didn't work. It's probably not so much that he was super attached to being the god of stories, so much as he was upset that having it not stick meant he was probably still stuck in his old role, prior to the end of WotR, and losing it AND his old role after WotR meant he was left directionless and without purpose. I think he'd probably be ok with another role/title as long as it meant he had escaped his old fate and had purpose again.

  14. #1079
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambadelta View Post
    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Loki giving himself the title “God of stories” instead of someone else, especially since the problem he has is that everyone wants him to be the “God of lies” since it suits them. So, this is a way for Loki to take back some control of his fate and how maybe future people perceive him.

    I also don’t think “God of stories” comes with new powers because for all intents and purposes it’s merely a title. Loki’s powers are just his own or rather whatever the writers want them to be because quite honestly Loki can almost pretty much do anything. I put the emphasis on almost here.
    but if it was all just a title, I don't think Loki would have been so desperate to escape hos old role, and so bummed that the new one never stuck. The important thing isn't the label, it's how people see him, and the title is just a label representative of that, and it's not something he can just change with a declaration. It's more important that he actually change and that people recognize that change, which can't be done on a whim, it takes work, and I think it's not really up to him ot decide what his new title is. He can use it as a goal, of sorts, but I just don't think it means anything without others acknowledging it.


    Now and Then aren’t antagonists to me they are merely plot devices that are setting up Loki’s story. It’s probably very unlikely we’ll see them again, or at least not any time soon. I also, as I said before, that I don’t think they are sinister intentions.

    Yes, in a way you could say they targeted him, in a way that they are using him as a pawn/the butterfly to fix the future where everything ends. Loki is just one God in a very large pond and if it’s the choice of saving one God vs. saving billions of lives and the multiverse itself then of course they are going to choose the latter.

    And at the end of the day Loki gets the better end of the deal here because he will basically live the life he’s always dreamed, well what he’s dreamt of recently at least because the old Loki didn’t want to be the hero but wanted to be king.

    Of course it’s going to backfire badly as we know that the future is still doomed to end, except this time it’s not Loki who is at fault for it, and even in King Thor there could still be a major twist there; although it’s looks unlikely but I still have hope.

    Overall Now and Then aren’t antagonist but rather plot devices who are setting up Loki’s story.
    I think we will probably see Now and Then again, I think the setup was too elaborate for it to never be brought up again. And I also don't think he wants to be a hero, exactly, he wants, as Now and Then even stated, 'freedom' and.... he didn't get it. he's still bound by fate.

  15. #1080
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    But is it characters in universe perception that matters or us readers? If it's the former then yeah I agree he does have to show change before any other title sticks but if it's the perception of us readers then when does the title stick? We've seen Loki change since Kid-Loki, okay you can't really can't Kid-Loki I suppose since he's in a way a seperate characters to the Loki we have but it all started there or even before that. I think our perception of the characters are actually what makes titles stick rather than characters in universe. If we don't see him as anything but the God of lies, mischief, evil etc. then those titles are what he will always be stuck with.


    On how Loki might be affected by what has happened. I think how Spiderman, Thor and Wolverine was affected or rather not affected might not be the same for Loki. Okay take away the God of stories for a moment, you still have the fact he has two things different from the other three, one being that he is actually aware of the 4th wall. I don't recall any of the other three being aware, maybe they are and I missed it though. The other thing as Kibblesmith said in one of his interviews is that Loki has some sort of omniscient narrative where he sort of knows what's going on even if he will be caught of guard with twists, Nightmare catching him off guard is an example of this. These two thing might be the difference.
    Last edited by Lambadelta; 09-13-2019 at 08:24 AM.

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