Loki Appreciation 2019

[Rosebunse]

I guess I figured that the order was Angela, Tyr, Thor, Loki, and then Baldur, who just seems like the baby of the family.

[Lambadelta]

I guess I figured that the order was Angela, Tyr, Thor, Loki, and then Baldur, who just seems like the baby of the family.

Balder is older than Thor so he is older than Loki. Loki before Laussa was always the baby of the family. Although I'm not sure where the more unknown two brothers stand though.

[Lambadelta]

No Loki #6 solicit so it looks like it's skipping a month

[Rosebunse]

No Loki #6 solicit so it looks like it's skipping a month

There was that rumor that the book was ending.

[Lambadelta]

There was that rumor that the book was ending.

As I said if it was ending we would know about it already. Don't listen to rumours. Actually this happened during AOA to. It skipped two months after issue 5 was released. So it's more likely it's the same here, although I hope it's only one month and not two this time.

[Prof. Aegis]

I suppose we'll find out within a few days as we'll hear from someone, be it Marvel or Kibblesmith as to the status. Hoping for a skip month as well.

[Rosebunse]

Well, we don't really have a Thor book either.

Maybe Loki will be taking over the Thor role?

[Raye]

As I said in the other thread, I am waiting for official word, I don't take rumors as fact. I think it is still possible that events in Loki may be tying into the thor relaunch so the start of the second arc had to be delayed. also it was kinda clear that the art was feeling rushed, so they may have wanted to give him some time to get back on track with that.

Also, I wanted to share a bit more on the whole 'Thor is just oblivious' thing. I speak from some experience here. Not my sister and myself, my parents have always tried very hard to treat us equally. But that is because my parents both had issues with their parents playing favorites among a bunch of kids. Especially my mom, who was the un-favorite to the point of abuse. she was due on Halloween, and my grandparents, who were very devout Catholics, considered this a bad omen and kinda considered her bad news even before she was born. She was born a few days after Halloween, but the perception stuck, especially after she was left handed, and had her right hand strapped behind her back and she was hit if she tried to write with her left hand, until she switched hands. (her writing is atrocious to this day) She is also allergic to fish, and as mentioned, it was a Catholic family, so every friday they'd eat fish, and she'd get sick, until they had her eat a single soft boiled egg, and nothing else, every Friday for being rebellious by being, you know, allergic. she was also, i mean she wasn't stupid, but one of her siblings, the one boy in the family, is a certified genius who speaks like 8 languages and graduated high school at like 15, and she, and the others, aside from one, were held up to that standard, especially since my grandfather was also a certified genius and expected all his children to go to university in the maths or sciences. (he was a geologist and really looked down on people without a lot of higher education) My mom instead took interior design courses, which he considered just a terrible failure at life. And all of this never applied to the favorite, the youngest daughter, who could do no wrong. Just unconditional love and praise heaped on her. S o naturally my mother had a lot of issues with her parents, and my aunt was just oblivious to it all, she had no clue what my mom was going through. she was, and is, friendly with my mom, but could not understand her situation at all, just didn't get it, and couldn't understand why mom mom was so upset with the family. And sometimes, yeah, she acts entitled, especially when they were younger, I don't think out of any bad intent, but just that she had always gotten more from her parents than any of the other children, and thinks that's normal, because it's all she's known. anyway, I see a lot of that with the Asgard royal family.

[Rosebunse]

Raye, that must have made Christmas fun for your family.

Seriously, it must have been really hard and confusing for everyone, not to mention annoying. Those scars never really heal.

What makes Thor and Loki's current relationship especially tricky is that Thor was the one who brought kidLoki back. If it wasn't for Thor, then Loki just wouldn't be around. And that did sort of give him a parental role, especially with Odin and Freya being rather hands off.

And I really do think that Thor thinks he knows what's best for Loki. There's nothing wrong with wanting your loved one to be safe and sound, especially when Loki isn't just a danger to himself, but to others.

[Raye]

I mean there is a reason my mom chose to settle in Calgary while the rest of the family was either in BC or Ontario.... and my uncle who went to Japan for a long while (and is married to a Japanese woman he met there), and then settled on Prince Edward Island. So she's not remotely close to any of the family any more, though my aunt, the favorite, did come to visit last week, which is part of what made me think of this. (and also, left the church, she wants nothing to do with organized religion after the role it played in her life. which of course was just further disappointment in her parents eyes) We spent Christmases with my dad's family, which was better. There are still 3 aunts (my dad has 5 siblings) that are very close to each other and to my grandmother before she passed earlier this year (at 98, she had a good run) to the point of excluding my father and uncles, but it was never to the same extent as my mom with her parents.

And yeah, I think it is likely that Thor has taken an almost parental role because of Kid Loki, even if he knows by now that the kid he brought back isn't really around any more. But I do think he feels responsible for Loki. But he still doesn't really get it. And wanting the best for Loki doesn't mean that his means of achieving that are actually good for Loki.

And I think it's actually fairly likely that Loki gets the hammer at some point. Even if it is cancelled, it may still be setting up events there.

[Lambadelta]

As I said in the other thread, I am waiting for official word, I don't take rumors as fact. I think it is still possible that events in Loki may be tying into the thor relaunch so the start of the second arc had to be delayed. also it was kinda clear that the art was feeling rushed, so they may have wanted to give him some time to get back on track with that.

Also, I wanted to share a bit more on the whole 'Thor is just oblivious' thing. I speak from some experience here. Not my sister and myself, my parents have always tried very hard to treat us equally. But that is because my parents both had issues with their parents playing favorites among a bunch of kids. Especially my mom, who was the un-favorite to the point of abuse. she was due on Halloween, and my grandparents, who were very devout Catholics, considered this a bad omen and kinda considered her bad news even before she was born. She was born a few days after Halloween, but the perception stuck, especially after she was left handed, and had her right hand strapped behind her back and she was hit if she tried to write with her left hand, until she switched hands. (her writing is atrocious to this day) She is also allergic to fish, and as mentioned, it was a Catholic family, so every friday they'd eat fish, and she'd get sick, until they had her eat a single soft boiled egg, and nothing else, every Friday for being rebellious by being, you know, allergic. she was also, i mean she wasn't stupid, but one of her siblings, the one boy in the family, is a certified genius who speaks like 8 languages and graduated high school at like 15, and she, and the others, aside from one, were held up to that standard, especially since my grandfather was also a certified genius and expected all his children to go to university in the maths or sciences. (he was a geologist and really looked down on people without a lot of higher education) My mom instead took interior design courses, which he considered just a terrible failure at life. And all of this never applied to the favorite, the youngest daughter, who could do no wrong. Just unconditional love and praise heaped on her. S o naturally my mother had a lot of issues with her parents, and my aunt was just oblivious to it all, she had no clue what my mom was going through. she was, and is, friendly with my mom, but could not understand her situation at all, just didn't get it, and couldn't understand why mom mom was so upset with the family. And sometimes, yeah, she acts entitled, especially when they were younger, I don't think out of any bad intent, but just that she had always gotten more from her parents than any of the other children, and thinks that's normal, because it's all she's known. anyway, I see a lot of that with the Asgard royal family.

I don't even know what to say to how your mom was treated but that type of abuse can have the most everlasting effects. It seems that your mom didn't really stand a chance with your grandparents.

I can see what you are saying in terms of Thor and Loki though. I mean, not even in the Asgard family but Asgard in general, Thor was the favored child, the golden son. While Loki was very much seen as an outcast, someone who doesn't really belong.

Odin and Freyja/Frigga clearly favored Thor, although there has been some retcons where Freyja is concerned.

My memory might be fuzzy here but I'm sure that the only time Freyja has ever acknowledged Loki as her son was after the WOTR and never before that. So in a way that kinda annoys me.

But yeah, I think Thor doesn't really understands how Loki feels because he can't really put himself into Loki's shoes. He's always been loved and acknowledged by both the people of Asgard and his family and was never treated as a nuisance that no one really wanted around.

I think this is also an issue for Loki because he also doesn't know how to handle everyone kinda treating him differently. It's all new and quite scary.

Yeah, I think Thor's parental role started with Kid-Loki and kind of stuck afterwards. I think Thor knows that Loki isn't Kid-Loki, well kinda anyway since technically he is Kid-Loki but not kid-Loki. I know that made a lot of sense .

Overall though, Thor basically loves Loki unconditionally and is probably his only real soft spot. He might not always understand Loki though but he does love him and wants the best for him.

[Raye]

Yeah, and I think all Loki wants at this point (not so much back in the bad old days when he was out more for revenge) is for him to be on the same level as Thor and his other siblings, and be given the same opportunities. I mean obviously they can't all be king of Asgard, but at the same time, it kind of feels like there was never really an choice BUT Thor. Was there ever any thought that Odin would pass the throne on to Balder or Angela, (despite her being, as mentioned right in the books, technically the rightful heir until her younger sister comes of age) let alone Loki? It feels as thought hey are being held to a different standard than Thor and are given fewer opportunites to prove themselves, and Loki gets it the worst because even before we get into his actions, he is adopted and a frost giant, so i think they kind of expected him to be less right from the start.

But I don't think Thor can see how unequal they are. He sees that Loki is king of Jotunheim and somehow equates that with being king of Asgard, like the two realms are even remotely on the same level of importance, not to mention that Jotunheim is.... uh, not exactly advanced society, and is a very harsh climate, making living there not very pleasant. But he seems to just think 'both kings, so we are equal' and... no.

I think Loki's relationship with Freyja is kind of being taken over by movie synergy, where they were quite close. But that was never really the case in the comics until fairly recently. Though if that is the extent of the movie synergy we get, I can live with it, I actually kind of like that addition. (nothing wrong with movie Loki, i just like the comics Loki on his own and would not want to see it be overwritten with movie synergy any more than the few things that have happened already)

[Rosebunse]

What makes their dynamic even more confusing is that, really, Loki is much more involved with his parents than anyone other than Thor. And this makes sense given their closeness in age, Loki was around the favorite, Thor, the most, so he of course was around his parents the most. But there's also the very common dynamic in many families where the child with the most problems is given the most attention. And we see repeatedly that, as even as a child, Loki needed a lot of attention.

As for Loki and Freya, their relationship is grating sometimes, though I think their closeness makes some sense with the various retcons. Loki, out of all of her children, takes after her the most in terms of ability and personality. Freya is implied to feel like an outsider sometimes, which probably helps her connect a bit with him.

But she's also manipulative and cruel and willing to use Loki, almost as though she feels like she has some ownership over him because she's his mother.

[Raye]

Yeah, she can be manipulative, but, I mean, so can Loki, so.... Maybe we can call them even, she threw him under the bus with King Loki, he stabbed her in the back with a poisoned dagger, let's call it even and start fresh.

Poll is now up to 53% good boy and 92,000 votes, with 2 hours remaining. can he crack 100k, i wonder? https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1174436871583207424

[Prof. Aegis]

Raye, yes, your mom's family sounds like it would have similarities to the family dynamic in Asgard. It does astound me on how families and people just on their own, will disown, or look down on someone due to anything that doesn't fit their life dynamic. The element of the person, the character and quality aren't even considered. Aspects such as tradition, someone else's achievements or perspective, or life style is the determining factor for everyone else. Which definitely has a lot in common with the familial aspects of Asgard. I'm so glad to know your mom was able to break away and create a life for herself and change up directions to build a family that embraces each member for who they are. That is amazing and wonderful. You have a great family, there. And yes, I'm basing it on what little i know from what you've shared. But definitely your family seems to really try to create a bond that is unconditional and open as opposed to what she grew up with.

Wow, 92000 votes! That's great!

As for Thor, I think he chooses to not see certain things, or is so focused on what he wants to see in Loki and FOR Loki that he is blinded to other aspects. it's not that he clueless or doesn't care. He's just so hopeful and so wanting of good things for Loki that it overshadows what Loki wants. It's almost as if Thor is going to the extremes on the other end to help balance out what has happened to Loki before. "You're a king now, you will have a happy life and ending, see, it completely the other end of what was before. Be happy" And not because he doesn't care, but he's trying so hard to help Loki move away from the other end of that spectrum, he misses out on Loki himself. Good intensions, but misplaced focus.