Loki Appreciation 2019

[Raye]

Okay, so here's my take, based upon the Loki and Thor Aug solicits, Loki will either turn up at the end of WotR 5 or the middle of 6 and will help to end the War. Then in the Omega issue will be given his new responsibilities from Thor and that will set up his new series. Which ties into why Thor is missing and Loki has a big responsibility. King, leader, guardian of Midgard, perhaps?

Plus I like how the Loki solicits mention him as the God of Mischief/Stories/Evil/Chaos...at least they aren't discarding what has gone on before.

I think the mention of him thinking of Tony as sort of like the king of Midgard, (as tenuous as that thinking might be) points to him being a king, and I just can't see it as being king of Asgard, plus the Jotunheim symbol in the logo, and that fact that he is Laufey's son, means Jotunheim makes a lot of sense. But, as I suspected might be the case, he is 'restless' I don't think he likes being tied down to one role for long.

Strange that Thor is in the Avengers and Loki solicits, but is 'missing' in his own (and a second month now with no cover for Thor, too) I wonder if his solo takes place before or after Avengers and Loki. kinda guessing after, but hard to say for sure.

OH! btw. with Squirrel Girl ending () i hope she turns up in Loki's book at some point to continue that friendship they were just starting to develop.

[Regular man]

Plus I like how the Loki solicits mention him as the God of Mischief/Stories/Evil/Chaos.

how nice that they mention that Loki is the god of stories, I hope that in WoR they demonstrate this power, in my opinion nobody spoke of this title because no one has ever seen it in the first place (if you mention the incursion, then you know that he is the god of stories, but they never mentioned it then meh).
the use of the title king / queen of the moon? is not here in the series?
oscar bazaldua as the artist of Loki's book ... my mother help me, I don't like how he draws I was hoping for someone like Lee Garbett, to bring out the figure of Loki, maybe I'm wrong but if I'm not mistaken here's a taste
FAC03408-AB33-4BC4-879B-A5E26D05EC60.jpg
... don't do this to Loki as he draws the head of Rogue and Remy I don't like it and I hope I'm not the only one (and I don't say it badly, I know how hard it is to draw, especially if it's monthly but I was kinda hoping that they would choose one of the previous AoA artists,)

[Raye]

I've read all of Mr and Mrs X, the artist is fine. And he draws a real sexy Gambit when it's applicable, so I'm sure he can do the same with Loki. Just look at the first few pages of the most recent issue, right in the preview they released: http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com...w-mr-mrs-x-11/ He'll do fine. Sure there will be panels here and there where things get a bit wonky due to deadlines or whatever, but that's the same with every artist, if you go into every book expecting perfection on every panel, you'll always be disappointed.

Also, I would not expect much to be done with God of Stories. I've just come to chalk up the end of AoA to a bit of a manic episode combined with end of the world weirdness, the rules of reality breaking down, allowing Loki to do more than he would have been able to normally. Because it was undone in Thor. He wouldn't be in the spot he's in right now, lamenting about how hard it is to change his role if he had actually succeeded at the end of AoA. I know it kinda sucks, but... he failed. If he had actually succeeded in redefining himself, he would not be in the position he's in right now. He needed to fail to hit his lowest point. So I would not expect any story powers.

We aren't going to get Agent of Asgard again, it was never going to happen, it's different creators with a different status quo to work with, and expecting them to recreate Agent of Asgard isn't realistic. It's something new and different, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

edit - we have a snippet of script:

https://twitter.com/Wil_Moss/status/1131734142524317697

[Rosebunse]

OK, it took me a minute, but now I know what that artreminds me of: Greg Land! I don't hate Land, so this is fine, but your mileage may very. It's a good style for action poses, though, but it can be a bit stiff. Makes for some good looking male characters, though.

As for the god of stories stuff, well, this is comics and nothing is really ever gone, just put on the back burner until someone else finds it.

And we do see some reference for it.

My theory is that it will remain a hat for Loki and a skillset we shall see on occasion. Loki's lie wasn't the title itself, but that that could be all he was. It is just one part of him and it doesn't negate his less positive qualities.

[Raye]

I think the lie was that he could just decide to be something else and snap his fingers and it would be so. It doesn't work that way, changing takes more than just the decision to do so, it takes work and time. He kept trying to take shortcuts, and that's why he failed. I still don't think he got any powers out of the deal, even if the title gets references from time to time. I mean it also called him the god of evil there, and i mean, he's trying to NOT be that. If it's listing things he's going to be in this story, do we want that part of the deal too? or is it just that it's listing things he's been called in the past?

And i think he's got one up on Greg Land because he draws the characters consistently, the characters have distinct faces, (ok most of his women kinda look samey.... but the men are more distinct) and isn't just tracing photos. But yeah i guess i can see the sort same style there.

[Snoop Dogg]

Loki's going to show Tony how to die and be reborn without severe identity issues.

[Rosebunse]

I think the lie was that he could just decide to be something else and snap his fingers and it would be so. It doesn't work that way, changing takes more than just the decision to do so, it takes work and time. He kept trying to take shortcuts, and that's why he failed. I still don't think he got any powers out of the deal, even if the title gets references from time to time. I mean it also called him the god of evil there, and i mean, he's trying to NOT be that. If it's listing things he's going to be in this story, do we want that part of the deal too? or is it just that it's listing things he's been called in the past?

And i think he's got one up on Greg Land because he draws the characters consistently, the characters have distinct faces, (ok most of his women kinda look samey.... but the men are more distinct) and isn't just tracing photos. But yeah i guess i can see the sort same style there.

But Loki has used those "story" powers before. That's how King Loki even entered 616.

But as we've talked about in the past, part of the issue is that the God of Stories angle effectively makes Loko too powerful. Comics are a storytelling medium and Marvel has acknowledged repeatedly over the years that the MU is a literary medium and can be treated unrealistically because of that. That gives Loki way too much control and power. And maybe that is part if the reason Aaron made the switch, because he wasn't prepared to work that in

[Raye]

I think Aaron just wanted Loki at a low place, so no matter what happened, he was going to fail. That may be why Marvel allowed it at all, despite it making him too powerful to be used as a regular character.

And how King Loki ended up in the past is up for debate. It appeared to be manipulating the story if you were looking at it a certain way, but could also be just, you know, plain old time travel and sorcery, which doesn't actually need "story" powers to work.

Loki's going to show Tony how to die and be reborn without severe identity issues.

I'm not sure Loki is the best person to help there

[Prof. Aegis]

I think Aaron just wanted Loki at a low place, so no matter what happened, he was going to fail. That may be why Marvel allowed it at all, despite it making him too powerful to be used as a regular character.

Remember, the series is Thor, and Loki was a supporting character. So Aaron, was using Loki to further his Thor story and not to develop Loki's. Not that it's a bad thing, but just that Aaron was playing up the aspects he wanted out of Loki to help drive his story. That's why Loki flourishes more when he has his own series, because the writers can develop and showcase his God of mischief or stories, or chaos, or whatever supports Loki's stories and development as opposed to supporting someone else.

When Loki took over Dr. Strange's title for about 5 issues, even then it wasn't the development of Loki, but how Loki could serve the Dr. Strange story and Dr. Strange's development. I don't expect other writers to help Loki grow when he's in other's series. I figure they're using him to further the main character's story. But that's okay, because we can still see aspects of Loki and who he is, but with his own series, we get to see more of who Loki is and what he is fully capable of.

As much as I don't want to rush the next month, I'm really looking forward to July. Hopefully we'll get some sample pages and more information soon. Well, now that I think about it, probably not until WotR is complete, then they'll be able to share more about the series and coming developments.

[Raye]

I don't think Aaron was neglecting to develop Loki, I think he just had plans for him other than the 'god of stories'. And developing a character doesn't always mean they always win and get more powerful. Look what he's been doing with Thor, it's the same thing, tear them down to their core, so you can expose what makes them tick, and they can be built back up again. And look at Thor 12, that was all Loki, and it did develop his character, and I'd argue in a more meaningful way than just slapping a new title and powers on him. He took responsibility for his past actions, that is a huge step forward for him that will do a lot more for him in the long run than giving him a new title, even if its not as flashy and cool sounding.

edit to add- I just want to make clear, that i get liking Agent of Asgard, and wanting to see that built on, and that it is upsetting for him to have his win taken away. I was upset about that initially (even tho i thought the God of Stories move was too drastic and potentially OP, personally) even though looking back, I understand why that win had to be taken away from him, and have actually come to agree with the move. But I'm just saying, I don't think that continuing with the whole 'god of stories' thing is the only way to build on what came before. Where we're at with Loki right now is because the creators kept taking unexpected and at times upsetting turns with the character rather than continuing down the expected path. Doing what was needed for the character, rather than what fans necessarily wanted. Rather than come back as he was after Siege, he came back as an innocent child, I'm sure not exactly what his fans at the time were hoping for. And we only got Agent of Asgard because that child was killed off, despite the Kid Loki direction being quite popular, and many fans wanted him to continue being an adorable little scamp forever. And then rather than doing the expected thing of making him turn bad again, return to his safe 'classic' status quo, pleasing all the old school fans out there, he instead tried to turn face. So if what we have now is due to taking unexpected turns with the character and doing things which at the time upset people, and could be seen as losses for the character, (I mean, I know Kid Loki said he'd won, but... he did still die) why would we expect them to start playing it safe and maintaining status quo with him now? With Loki, you have to expect the unexpected, usually with a side of tragedy.

I do think there are some limits to this, I personally hope they don't reach the point of deciding that returning to his old status quo would be the needed unexpected move, and I think there is only so much rapid change the audience will be willing to accept, and at some point if you do it too much, he just runs the risk of losing consistency as a character, I think a core essence needs to preserved so he still feels like Loki, not some other character walking around in his skin. I also think that even if they take things in an unexpected direction, building on the past makes it less likely that he will stop feeling like himself. So there are some limits as to HOW unexpected they can go. But I think they've done pretty well in that regard.

[Prof. Aegis]

Hey Raye, I wasn't inferring that authors such as Aaron aren't furthering the development of Loki, just that it's not their focus as they are using Loki to further their own main story, in this case with Thor. Yes, definitely there is development without a doubt, but on a smaller scale than with his own series. I loved Thor 12 and was thrilled with the development and connection to past stories, but even here it was one issue. So we get an issue here and there, which I'm not complaining, it is Thor, and not Loki, but just stating the obvious of the development and character moments come sporadically, compared to a solo series.

As much as I enjoyed AoA, I don't want to go back to it. I want to see Loki continue to grow and develop and show more facets. I don't want writers to dismiss what growth there was before, and yeah, if they bring back aspects or use elements of his earlier series, great! But I don't want a direct continuation from AoA, as there has been development, and growth that should move forward and not go backwards. All these aspects are a part of his character and that just make him more complex and add more depth to be explored.

And I agree, unexpected is good, and Loki gives writers a chance to do so with his character, but yes, there are limits. Throwing a cape on him (just an example) and saying he is a full fledged hero, wouldn't work as readers would be expecting some behind the scenes plan, by him. So writers can do unexpected things, but it would still have to connect with his character traits, personality, and past experiences. So yes there's definitely limits, but also lots of possibilities, too!

[Snoop Dogg]

will tony and loki talk about dying and clones, abusive fathers, or will they just get to it and make a sweet loki armor with GIANT ol' loki horns

[Raye]

Yeah, Loki and Tony actually have a lot in common, of all the heroes, Tony is probably the most like Loki in lots of ways. Probably why Kibblesmith really bent the definition of 'king' here, because I mean, they have to interact, and compare and contrast.

Hey Raye, I wasn't inferring that authors such as Aaron aren't furthering the development of Loki, just that it's not their focus as they are using Loki to further their own main story, in this case with Thor. Yes, definitely there is development without a doubt, but on a smaller scale than with his own series. I loved Thor 12 and was thrilled with the development and connection to past stories, but even here it was one issue. So we get an issue here and there, which I'm not complaining, it is Thor, and not Loki, but just stating the obvious of the development and character moments come sporadically, compared to a solo series.

ah, I get you.

As much as I enjoyed AoA, I don't want to go back to it. I want to see Loki continue to grow and develop and show more facets. I don't want writers to dismiss what growth there was before, and yeah, if they bring back aspects or use elements of his earlier series, great! But I don't want a direct continuation from AoA, as there has been development, and growth that should move forward and not go backwards. All these aspects are a part of his character and that just make him more complex and add more depth to be explored.

And I agree, unexpected is good, and Loki gives writers a chance to do so with his character, but yes, there are limits. Throwing a cape on him (just an example) and saying he is a full fledged hero, wouldn't work as readers would be expecting some behind the scenes plan, by him. So writers can do unexpected things, but it would still have to connect with his character traits, personality, and past experiences. So yes there's definitely limits, but also lots of possibilities, too!

right, I think Loki has had some significant developments under Aaron, even if it's been a bit slow and sporadic, and wouldn't want to see it ignored for the sake of giving fans something comforting and familiar. I mean I hope they don't get to the point of just shock twists out of the blue for the sake of it, I think wherever he goes should be supported by what came before, sure. But one of the reasons I like Loki so much these past several years is because they aren't afraid to move him forward rather than backwards, and take him in interesting new directions I wouldn't have anticipated, he always seems to veer into an unexpected direction at the resolution to a story. Not everything has been to my tastes, sure, but mostly it's been a fun ride, and I am interested in seeing where he goes next. Being king of Jotunheim (if it is that) could be really cool, though not something i would have anticipated a few months ago.

oh, right, edited to add - I re-rolled City of Heroes Loki as a Dark/Dark Dominator, with all his powers tinted green, so he'd have a confuse power (because he obviously needed a confuse power) and a pet wolf. And I put him on the villain side this time, so i can have him turn face in the game. Tweaked his costume while i was at it:

[Rosebunse]

Sweet, we look forward to your misadventures lol

That's an MMO, right? Have you noticed any other Loki clones?

Honestly, I'm trying to create a scensrio in my head for Loki's series and what if the end if WotR makes it look like Loki stole the hammer from Thor?

[Raye]

Yeah, it is a MMO, I played it back in the day, bought all the expansions blah blah, it's actually where my username here comes from, Raye Gunn was my main, (and is my username in the game now) a retro-future space girl. And then NCSoft shut it down, and then refused to sell the rights back to the devs, and it was very sad. Now it turns out some people got their hands on the game code, and are running a private server. So you can play for free, and it's been up for a while and so far no one's threatened to have it shut down... but there will be no more updates to the game, it's preserved in stasis from 2012. On the upside tho, back in the day, if you recreated a costume of an existing character, you got your name and costume changed, so... but now, there are no mods, and no one is making money off of this, so... so far, so good, haven't had my costume/name changed. If you wanna play, it's free, and this explains how: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrs_B6WRRJM

oh, and i have not personally seen any other Lokis, but i had to add the Laufeyson because plain Loki was taken on every server, so at minimum 5 others are out there. have seen Mysterio, Skeletor, Fantomex, Taskmaster, Jessica Jones, Dr Strange, and Wolverine, tho. (but most people seem to be playing original characters. and i mean, I've made 5 so far, and Loki is the only existing character I've made)

so far he's just been going through the lowbie villain missions, can't begin to switch sides until level 20, so... but Dark/Dark Dominator is fun! that was one of the newer powersets when the game got shut down, so i'd never got to play it before.

I mean, on the one hand, if Loki got the hammer legit and it was really public, then you'd think Tony wouldn't be trying quite so hard to stop him... but on the other hand, Thor seems to be working with Loki, which implies he at least thinks Loki has it legitimately. Maybe it's just more of characters just thinking there must be a trick there because it's Loki, even if he did get it totally legitimately.