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  1. #136
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    Hi Raye! Its all good, stuff happens like that sometimes thanks for the reply! One good thing is at least we don't have to wait very long for #12. Then we'll get answers and see where its set in time hopefully.

    Im going to guess it will be a little of both past and present. I could see that happening Loki hanging out with Odin for a good portion, it would be nice to see.

    And I loved that game, but in the process of reading Gillen's Journey into Mystery ( I know I'm a bit late to the party) I know the general stuff though. How come you think the game stole from Gillen's JIM?
    Last edited by DragonsRazor; 04-06-2019 at 06:19 AM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsRazor View Post
    Hi Raye! Its all good, stuff happens like that sometimes thanks for the reply! One good thing is at least we don't have to wait very long for #12. Then we'll get answers and see where its set in time hopefully.

    Im going to guess it will be a little of both past and present. I could see that happening Loki hanging out with Odin for a good portion, it would be nice to see.

    And I loved that game, but in the process of reading Gillen's Journey into Mystery ( I know I'm a bit late to the party) I know the general stuff though. How come you think the game stole from Gillen's JIM?
    OK, so, spoilers on this:

    The game obviously borrows mostly from the actual myths. It is actually really fun if you're a fan of Norse myth. Now, the story revolves around Kratos, the god of war, taking his son Atreus along with him as they try and take Kratos's wife and Atreus's mother's ashes back to her homeland for them to be scattered.

    Again, spoilers:

    Atreus is revealed to be Loki, while Kratos's wife is revealed to be Laufey, which in the game is given a very feminine pronunciation. Laufey is revealed to have foreseen herself marrying and giving birth to Atreus/Loki, who would later go on to destroy the Norse pantheon who has decimated her people, the Frost Giants.

    Where this takes influence from JiM is obviously in that they both feature "kid" Lokis, but God of War also gives us that immortal question of if there is hope for a Loki, or if he is just damned to bring about the end of the world as we know it. Also, Laufey reminds me a lot of Marvel's Freya in that she was willing to sacrifice the future of her child, Loki, for the good of her people. And then, of course, you have Atreus's interest in stories and his own godlike abilities to understand languages.

    Many people don't agree with me on this, but I don't think I'm wrong.

  3. #138
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    I have never played God of War, because I am a pure PC gamer, so i don't know the details. (I'd love to play the most recent one, but I'm not gonna get a console for a game, I won't cave to exclusivity deals on principle) But did watch some LPs of the latest one, and from what I do know, I think that is a sort of tenuous connection, tbh. What you describe isn't really unique to JIM, they are fairly broad themes that are shared with, but not necessarily derived from, JIM. They just share the same characters, derived from Norse myth, mostly. I mean the kid aspect, maybe, since Loki is technically supposed to be Odin's age... but.... I mean, they just dropped a tease that the next Assassin's Creed will take place in viking age Scandinavia, and it will likely have as much in common as God of War did, given how much they borrowed from not just history, which the AC games always do, but also from Greek mythology for Odyssey, (especially likely since the tease had 'VALHALLA' written across it) and the new more RPG, narrative driven focus of the AC games. I think, of all things, Tales From the Borderlands had a more direct reference, even though it didn't have anything referring to Norse myth at all, because it actually quoted it in places, and the situation more closely resembled JIM, even if the names were changed, and it had a different ending. basically, Handsome Jack is the big bad of Borderlands 2, he's just, the worst, and he was so popular he got retconned into earlier lore with the pre-sequel. Where he actually started as a good guy, and we saw him fall to the dark side. He died at the end of Borderlands 2. But turns out, he made a backup copy of his mind, which latched onto the protagonist of the game, Rhys, who was a cyborg so had cybernetic implants that Jack's programming could kinda live in. And he sort of talked to him during the story, and gave him information and helped him out at parts, and helped him to achieve the end goal. But.... he was using him. At the end, he tried to overwrite Rhys' mind with his own, and take Rhys' place. But, and this is where it differs, Rhys blocks the attempt, while saying "I win" and as I said, it actually quoted it in a few places. It's not one to one, but it was clearly heavily inspired by JIM, and they payed homage to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsRazor View Post
    Hi Raye! Its all good, stuff happens like that sometimes thanks for the reply! One good thing is at least we don't have to wait very long for #12. Then we'll get answers and see where its set in time hopefully.

    Im going to guess it will be a little of both past and present. I could see that happening Loki hanging out with Odin for a good portion, it would be nice to see.

    And I loved that game, but in the process of reading Gillen's Journey into Mystery ( I know I'm a bit late to the party) I know the general stuff though. How come you think the game stole from Gillen's JIM?
    Yeah, at least we don't have long to wait, and there is Squirrel Girl to kind of tide us over until then, too. the Odin situation is weird. it certainly looked like a brutal attack and that he died, but solicits for other books refer to him as 'missing' or 'injured' rather than 'dead' so I am not sure if he even did actually die there, so it may not be possible for them to meet in the afterlife assuming Loki did actually die there. But it would make some narrative sense for them to spend time together in come capacity, I think.
    Last edited by Raye; 04-06-2019 at 04:53 PM.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I have never played God of War, because I am a pure PC gamer, so i don't know the details. (I'd love to play the most recent one, but I'm not gonna get a console for a game, I won't cave to exclusivity deals on principle) But did watch some LPs of the latest one, and from what I do know, I think that is a sort of tenuous connection, tbh. What you describe isn't really unique to JIM, they are fairly broad themes that are shared with, but not necessarily derived from, JIM. They just share the same characters, derived from Norse myth, mostly. I mean the kid aspect, maybe, since Loki is technically supposed to be Odin's age... but.... I mean, they just dropped a tease that the next Assassin's Creed will take place in viking age Scandinavia, and it will likely have as much in common as God of War did, given how much they borrowed from not just history, which the AC games always do, but also from Greek mythology for Odyssey, (especially likely since the tease had 'VALHALLA' written across it) and the new more RPG, narrative driven focus of the AC games. I think, of all things, Tales From the Borderlands had a more direct reference, even though it didn't have anything referring to Norse myth at all, because it actually quoted it in places, and the situation more closely resembled JIM, even if the names were changed, and it had a different ending. basically, Handsome Jack is the big bad of Borderlands 2, he's just, the worst, and he was so popular he got retconned into earlier lore with the pre-sequel. Where he actually started as a good guy, and we saw him fall to the dark side. He died at the end of Borderlands 2. But turns out, he made a backup copy of his mind, which latched onto the protagonist of the game, Rhys, who was a cyborg so had cybernetic implants that Jack's programming could kinda live in. And he sort of talked to him during the story, and gave him information and helped him out at parts, and helped him to achieve the end goal. But.... he was using him. At the end, he tried to overwrite Rhys' mind with his own, and take Rhys' place. But, and this is where it differs, Rhys blocks the attempt, while saying "I win" and as I said, it actually quoted it in a few places. It's not one to one, but it was clearly heavily inspired by JIM, and they payed homage to it.




    Yeah, at least we don't have long to wait, and there is Squirrel Girl to kind of tide us over until then, too. the Odin situation is weird. it certainly looked like a brutal attack and that he died, but solicits for other books refer to him as 'missing' or 'injured' rather than 'dead' so I am not sure if he even did actually die there, so it may not be possible for them to meet in the afterlife assuming Loki did actually die there. But it would make some narrative sense for them to spend time together in come capacity, I think.
    While it is a common trope, I'll give you that, I still have to say that with a "kid Loki" in it, it looks way too much like kidLoki.

    Also, it's a really good game, but it's really hard even on Easy. I'm not sure how well it would play on PC because of the control scheme.

    Damn, a Norse Assassin's Creed game would be crazy! Especially since it seems so against what we think of when we think of Vikings. Bring on the Norse Ninja!

    But at this point, I think it's almost impossible for Norse related things to escape Marvel's Thor. It's what's out in the public consciousness and honestly, it isn't bad, it's just different. I don't know, I get onto some of the reddit history forums and if you bring up Norse myth at all, people get weird and defensive.

    If Odin isn't dead, then where is he? Perhaps Malekith kidnapped him to use him for..something?

  5. #140
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    Yeah, i think it's hard for the comics or movies to not slip into public perception of Norse mythology at this point. Hell, Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology, has a Marvel style Mjolnir on the cover! I mean it's not exact, but it's a big rectangular hunk of metal rather than the more historical peaked/v shape. And the band Amon Amarth, they do songs almost exclusively about vikings or Norse myth, and their album about Loki he had the big huge horns coming out the front of his helmet, and Thor had a red cape and winged helmet. colors were wrong on Loki, but... And i remember watching a documentary about mythology once (world mythology, not just Norse) and in it, it said that Loki was Thor's brother. So yeah, that was clearly a case of the comics slipping in.

    And yeah, it's weird about Odin. All i know is, i was going through the solicits and previews a few days ago, because i wanted to see if anything could be learned about Loki from them after we knew what had happened, (not really) and noticed the weirdness with Odin's status. Of the two mentions of Odin, one sad he was 'missing' the other said 'injured' so I dunno, he may have been captured, may have been left for dead but managed to pull through, but it's definitely a sign he'll live. I thought it was a bit funny that after the issue hit, there were news articles going on about how Marvel just just killed Odin and Loki, like they had legit been killed dead for real, no plan to bring them back in any way. (well, at least not in this story, we all know everyone comes back eventually, especially with Loki who we already know will at worst just get reincarnated, though maybe changed) But in this thread at least, we never thought it was a for real death (or, at least not a permanent one) for a second. biased? sure, but I also don't think we're wrong to think it's some kind of fakeout.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Yeah, i think it's hard for the comics or movies to not slip into public perception of Norse mythology at this point. Hell, Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology, has a Marvel style Mjolnir on the cover! I mean it's not exact, but it's a big rectangular hunk of metal rather than the more historical peaked/v shape. And the band Amon Amarth, they do songs almost exclusively about vikings or Norse myth, and their album about Loki he had the big huge horns coming out the front of his helmet, and Thor had a red cape and winged helmet. colors were wrong on Loki, but... And i remember watching a documentary about mythology once (world mythology, not just Norse) and in it, it said that Loki was Thor's brother. So yeah, that was clearly a case of the comics slipping in.

    And yeah, it's weird about Odin. All i know is, i was going through the solicits and previews a few days ago, because i wanted to see if anything could be learned about Loki from them after we knew what had happened, (not really) and noticed the weirdness with Odin's status. Of the two mentions of Odin, one sad he was 'missing' the other said 'injured' so I dunno, he may have been captured, may have been left for dead but managed to pull through, but it's definitely a sign he'll live. I thought it was a bit funny that after the issue hit, there were news articles going on about how Marvel just just killed Odin and Loki, like they had legit been killed dead for real, no plan to bring them back in any way. (well, at least not in this story, we all know everyone comes back eventually, especially with Loki who we already know will at worst just get reincarnated, though maybe changed) But in this thread at least, we never thought it was a for real death (or, at least not a permanent one) for a second. biased? sure, but I also don't think we're wrong to think it's some kind of fakeout.
    Was that that Netflix documentary on myths? Holy fuck, that slip about Loki being Thor's brother in the real myths made me so mad LOL Well, not mad, but I just couldn't take the rest of the show seriously. Isn't that awful :'D

    I think those articles are mostly click bait. I haven't seen anyone really take these deaths seriously. Not that I think that they don't work. Aaron is a savy writer and I'm sure he knows that we know that these deaths won't stick. Like I said, the shock is that Laufey actually made good on his threats to eat Loki, not that Loki actually died.

  7. #142
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    Most of the articles I read seemed to portray Loki's death as final, but there was at least one that was like, "Yeah, he'll probably be back by the end of the event." Which is pretty much what I'm expecting -- there's no way that Loki let himself get killed without some sort of backup plan. I mean, he's died a couple times on purpose at this point (Lady-Loki and Kid-Loki). When he's dead, he's scheming more than usual

    I do think he died (instead of an illusion fake-out, though I agree with the ruling that his illusions can have a physical form). Mostly because, although he's established as using illusions, I think it shows how far he's come if he was willing to sacrifice himself, even if he has a plan. After all, plans can always fail (and that death had to hurt). It shows dedication. Plus, imo it's more badass. Furthermore, I'm guessing based on what we saw in the images from the upcoming Thor issue that they're some kind of death-enhanced flashback.

    If there is a point to him dying besides proving how serious he is, then he's aiming to do something in the afterlife to help. The solicits mention the undead invading Midgard, so I'm curious to see if it has something to do with that. OTOH, what little we did see of that Thor issue seemed to be about Malekith, so maybe he aims to mess with his fate somehow? Malekith did escape Hel to begin with, didn't he?

    Also, hi DragonsRazor!

  8. #143
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    Rosebunse;4292199]OK, so, spoilers on this:

    The game obviously borrows mostly from the actual myths. It is actually really fun if you're a fan of Norse myth. Now, the story revolves around Kratos, the god of war, taking his son Atreus along with him as they try and take Kratos's wife and Atreus's mother's ashes back to her homeland for them to be scattered.

    Again, spoilers:

    Atreus is revealed to be Loki, while Kratos's wife is revealed to be Laufey, which in the game is given a very feminine pronunciation. Laufey is revealed to have foreseen herself marrying and giving birth to Atreus/Loki, who would later go on to destroy the Norse pantheon who has decimated her people, the Frost Giants.

    Where this takes influence from JiM is obviously in that they both feature "kid" Lokis, but God of War also gives us that immortal question of if there is hope for a Loki, or if he is just damned to bring about the end of the world as we know it. Also, Laufey reminds me a lot of Marvel's Freya in that she was willing to sacrifice the future of her child, Loki, for the good of her people. And then, of course, you have Atreus's interest in stories and his own godlike abilities to understand languages.

    Many people don't agree with me on this, but I don't think I'm wrong.
    You have a good point there with the kid Loki stuff both are pretty similar in terms of character and I didn't realize that Laufey similar to Marvels Freya in that aspect. I can't wait to get started reading the JIM but I'm stuck waiting a little longer to read it all. That's what happens though with the mail system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I have never played God of War, because I am a pure PC gamer, so i don't know the details. (I'd love to play the most recent one, but I'm not gonna get a console for a game, I won't cave to exclusivity deals on principle) But did watch some LPs of the latest one, and from what I do know, I think that is a sort of tenuous connection, tbh. What you describe isn't really unique to JIM, they are fairly broad themes that are shared with, but not necessarily derived from, JIM. They just share the same characters, derived from Norse myth, mostly. I mean the kid aspect, maybe, since Loki is technically supposed to be Odin's age... but.... I mean, they just dropped a tease that the next Assassin's Creed will take place in viking age Scandinavia, and it will likely have as much in common as God of War did, given how much they borrowed from not just history, which the AC games always do, but also from Greek mythology for Odyssey, (especially likely since the tease had 'VALHALLA' written across it) and the new more RPG, narrative driven focus of the AC games. I think, of all things, Tales From the Borderlands had a more direct reference, even though it didn't have anything referring to Norse myth at all, because it actually quoted it in places, and the situation more closely resembled JIM, even if the names were changed, and it had a different ending. basically, Handsome Jack is the big bad of Borderlands 2, he's just, the worst, and he was so popular he got retconned into earlier lore with the pre-sequel. Where he actually started as a good guy, and we saw him fall to the dark side. He died at the end of Borderlands 2. But turns out, he made a backup copy of his mind, which latched onto the protagonist of the game, Rhys, who was a cyborg so had cybernetic implants that Jack's programming could kinda live in. And he sort of talked to him during the story, and gave him information and helped him out at parts, and helped him to achieve the end goal. But.... he was using him. At the end, he tried to overwrite Rhys' mind with his own, and take Rhys' place. But, and this is where it differs, Rhys blocks the attempt, while saying "I win" and as I said, it actually quoted it in a few places. It's not one to one, but it was clearly heavily inspired by JIM, and they payed homage to it.




    Yeah, at least we don't have long to wait, and there is Squirrel Girl to kind of tide us over until then, too. the Odin situation is weird. it certainly looked like a brutal attack and that he died, but solicits for other books refer to him as 'missing' or 'injured' rather than 'dead' so I am not sure if he even did actually die there, so it may not be possible for them to meet in the afterlife assuming Loki did actually die there. But it would make some narrative sense for them to spend time together in come capacity, I think.
    The story is really good, you could always check to see if its on YouTube if you don't want to watch a bunch of LPs. And I wouldn't have thought that Borderlands would be heavily inspired by JIM I never played it so that's pretty cool to hear that they would pay homage to it.

    But I agree the Odin situation is weird. I don't think he really died there I mean he took a serious beating from Thor and still survived just barely not too long ago, I don't think a couple of Dark Elves could do worse. Maybe the surviving raven went to get help and they moved him to a safe hidden location while he recovers?

    Those news articles really did go crazy about them both getting killed off for real I read one that was skeptical by basically saying its loki so anything can happen. Aaron did do a great job with the shock of having Laufey eat Loki and Loki just letting it happen.


    I wonder if that's when the Naglfar Beacon will come into play when the undead invade Midgard with either Loki or somebody else using it to fight back against the hoard of undead. It could be possible that he does try to mess with his fate but I would think it would be too easy to defeat him that way story wise I could be wrong though. To me it looks more like a flashback with Viking Loki showing something significant to him that leaves him shocked.

    And also hi Riimi nice to meet you!

  9. #144
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    you got here too late to see it i guess, but a few pages back, I had a similar thought. that Naglfar Beacon is a Chekov's Gun, it has to go off sooner or later, and Loki makes the most sense to be the one to fire it. Both because he was the one who created it and put together the Asgardians of the Galaxy to retrieve it, and because of the myths where Loki rides Naglfar to Ragnarok. And yeah, with the undead coming into play in the final couple issues, it would make sense for it to be used there. If Loki really did die, his body would end up with the fleet, which may have been his plan here. Trouble is though, it said that the bodies there were just kinda husks, his mind/soul would presumably be on it's way to a new body, and without his mind, there's no point in getting to the fleet.... he'd have to do something to attach his soul to his body, even after death. also, as I think about htis, why create a beacon at all if the plan relied on him going TO the fleet? either someone on Earth has to summon it with him at the helm, or he has to be the one to use the beacon. hm... either way, i am pretty sure his big comeback is going to be tied to the Naglfar Armada.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Was that that Netflix documentary on myths? Holy fuck, that slip about Loki being Thor's brother in the real myths made me so mad LOL Well, not mad, but I just couldn't take the rest of the show seriously. Isn't that awful :'D
    Yes, it was on Netflix. and yeah, how am I supposed to take what they say about the Aztecs seriously when they get something as simple as that wrong about the Norse? honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post
    Most of the articles I read seemed to portray Loki's death as final, but there was at least one that was like, "Yeah, he'll probably be back by the end of the event." Which is pretty much what I'm expecting -- there's no way that Loki let himself get killed without some sort of backup plan. I mean, he's died a couple times on purpose at this point (Lady-Loki and Kid-Loki). When he's dead, he's scheming more than usual

    I do think he died (instead of an illusion fake-out, though I agree with the ruling that his illusions can have a physical form). Mostly because, although he's established as using illusions, I think it shows how far he's come if he was willing to sacrifice himself, even if he has a plan. After all, plans can always fail (and that death had to hurt). It shows dedication. Plus, imo it's more badass. Furthermore, I'm guessing based on what we saw in the images from the upcoming Thor issue that they're some kind of death-enhanced flashback.

    If there is a point to him dying besides proving how serious he is, then he's aiming to do something in the afterlife to help. The solicits mention the undead invading Midgard, so I'm curious to see if it has something to do with that. OTOH, what little we did see of that Thor issue seemed to be about Malekith, so maybe he aims to mess with his fate somehow? Malekith did escape Hel to begin with, didn't he?

    Also, hi DragonsRazor!
    Yeah, there has to be more to it than just convincing Freyja he was genuine right then. I mean, it's not exactly rocket science that they have to find Thor, and Jotunheim is worth a look even if he was lying. It's a good point about the solicits mentioning the dead, as I went into just above there, it could kinda work with the Naglfar Armada. But the solicits just mention the dead, the Naglfar Armada is specifically dead gods. But the gods souls do still go to Hel or Valhalla, and if those souls are called back they could maybe rejoin their bodies from the Armada (tho, the Naglfar gods they showed were like, zombies, so not exactly ideal there). Problem is Loki's whole reincarnation thing could mess that up.

    I think him messing with Malekith's fate, like he did in JIM with Cul, seems likely to me. Create weakness in the past, exploit it in the present, win the war.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    you got here too late to see it i guess, but a few pages back, I had a similar thought. that Naglfar Beacon is a Chekov's Gun, it has to go off sooner or later, and Loki makes the most sense to be the one to fire it. Both because he was the one who created it and put together the Asgardians of the Galaxy to retrieve it, and because of the myths where Loki rides Naglfar to Ragnarok. And yeah, with the undead coming into play in the final couple issues, it would make sense for it to be used there. If Loki really did die, his body would end up with the fleet, which may have been his plan here. Trouble is though, it said that the bodies there were just kinda husks, his mind/soul would presumably be on it's way to a new body, and without his mind, there's no point in getting to the fleet.... he'd have to do something to attach his soul to his body, even after death. also, as I think about htis, why create a beacon at all if the plan relied on him going TO the fleet? either someone on Earth has to summon it with him at the helm, or he has to be the one to use the beacon. hm... either way, i am pretty sure his big comeback is going to be tied to the Naglfar Armada.
    I just realized I got things a bit wrong here, and things may work better than I thought. His soul/mind wouldn't be on its way to a new body, well, the soul might, the nebulous spark, but his mind would be different because it is a new Loki each time. It might actually be possible that due to his reincarnation deal, his body already keeps its mind when it joins the armada, because where else is it going to go? He doesn't go to the afterlife, he gets a different mind when reincarnated, so... The old mind is unaccounted for. The problem of it being an undead body remains, but hopefully some magic from either him or Karnilla (being co-queen of Hel right now and all, since Hela seems preoccupied with Thanos right now) can remedy that. Of course, if this is the case, then there is a zombie Loki on thwt flet already with his mind intact. Ikol was a backup, not the mind itself, so... Old Loki could still be there. Or was. It may explain why the Loki they fought in Asgardians of the Galaxy seemed more talkative than the rest.

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    I don't know if we NEED Loki's reincarnation to ever be fully explained, but depending on how this works, it could really go into some weird places.

    I agree with Riimi, I think Loki is really dead exactly for the reasons she gave. It's a major potential sacrifice on Loki's end, especially given that there's no indication that even Loki truly knows how his reincarnation works and we've had several very different circumstances regarding it.

    Original Loki just straight up died and he was reincarnated as a child. This child was Loki, but it was Loki who had the potential to grow to not be Loki...which was apparently problematic for old Loki, who created what was basically a backup drive in the form of Ikol, who basically later took over kidLoki's body and snuffed out that personality nearly completely. But Ikol wasn't old Loki. The only time we even get a hint that maybe old Loki is somehow in this Loki at all is at the end of Agent of Asgard, right before Ikol kills himself so as to create Story Loki, our current Loki. This Loki does seem to have some old Loki's thing going on, but he's also clearly very much Ikol and even some kidLoki if you squint.

    So if we look, we have several cases of actual death, a full mindwipe, and ultimately, Loki taking on the experiences of the Lokis that came before him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I just realized I got things a bit wrong here, and things may work better than I thought. His soul/mind wouldn't be on its way to a new body, well, the soul might, the nebulous spark, but his mind would be different because it is a new Loki each time. It might actually be possible that due to his reincarnation deal, his body already keeps its mind when it joins the armada, because where else is it going to go? He doesn't go to the afterlife, he gets a different mind when reincarnated, so... The old mind is unaccounted for. The problem of it being an undead body remains, but hopefully some magic from either him or Karnilla (being co-queen of Hel right now and all, since Hela seems preoccupied with Thanos right now) can remedy that. Of course, if this is the case, then there is a zombie Loki on thwt flet already with his mind intact. Ikol was a backup, not the mind itself, so... Old Loki could still be there. Or was. It may explain why the Loki they fought in Asgardians of the Galaxy seemed more talkative than the rest.
    Loki being the one to use it does make the most sense. He has to have some sort of mischievous plan up his sleeve to use it for especially since he knows what Malekiths plans are, and all he has to do now is get it back from the Asgardians of the Galaxy by convincing or tricking them to retrieve it. Do you think they’d bring up the kid Loki they fought alongside with? Now if he really is dead wouldn’t the Nornkeep being destroyed and his reincarnation deal make things complicated, would it be put on pause and the soul just going with the mind since it wouldn’t have a place to go otherwise? You’ve got a good point there for the mind to remain intact with the body because your right where else would it go? And yeah, we did have that Old Loki that they fought who wasn’t mindless at all and he did seem more talkative plus he had control of his powers so it supports that theory. Hopefully there is something to help with the undead body problem from either him or Karnilla. It does sound about right that his big comeback could be linked with the Naglfar fleet. (Didn’t Thanos breakup with Hela for the Infinity stones so she probably isn’t preoccupied with him anymore and I think he’s still dead from Infinity Wars.)


    I think your right about his reincarnation and that it can go into some really weird places, I can't wait till we find out more. Also I had a question about the whole Old Loki, Ikol, and kidloki situation but you answered it perfectly so thanks!

  13. #148
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    It said he had dissolved the Kid Loki dupe, so I don't think he would bring him along, but there may be a few Lokis among the fleet from past Ragnarok cycles or other times his body died.

    and yeah, the Nornkeep being destroyed complcates things because it's not just that the new reincarnations have different personalities, they have different fates. If someone is born as a baby with no fate, or fate is removed after thigns are rolling, no big deal, Loki actually wants that for himself. But if you are dealing with a reincarnation that is kinda created mid-life at some point as Kid Loki was, if there is no fate, then what shapes his personality etc at the time of it's creation? would the new body be an empty shell with fate being offline?

    and Hela is in Guardians of the Galaxy right now, (written by Donny Cates, so possibly more signs that he is weaving story threads for his eventual takeover of the Thor book) hunting for Thanos' head, she wants to, you know, reassemble him...


    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I don't know if we NEED Loki's reincarnation to ever be fully explained, but depending on how this works, it could really go into some weird places.

    I agree with Riimi, I think Loki is really dead exactly for the reasons she gave. It's a major potential sacrifice on Loki's end, especially given that there's no indication that even Loki truly knows how his reincarnation works and we've had several very different circumstances regarding it.

    Original Loki just straight up died and he was reincarnated as a child. This child was Loki, but it was Loki who had the potential to grow to not be Loki...which was apparently problematic for old Loki, who created what was basically a backup drive in the form of Ikol, who basically later took over kidLoki's body and snuffed out that personality nearly completely. But Ikol wasn't old Loki. The only time we even get a hint that maybe old Loki is somehow in this Loki at all is at the end of Agent of Asgard, right before Ikol kills himself so as to create Story Loki, our current Loki. This Loki does seem to have some old Loki's thing going on, but he's also clearly very much Ikol and even some kidLoki if you squint.

    So if we look, we have several cases of actual death, a full mindwipe, and ultimately, Loki taking on the experiences of the Lokis that came before him.
    Disagree with you on the fundamentals here, I think Kid Loki was the only complete mindwipe/reboot. I also don't think the fact that Kid Loki would become his own thing was a problem for Loki, and in fact he wanted that, it was part of his plan, so that he could exploit the fact that Kid Loki was able to gain trust of others that he could no longer get. His only problem with him was that there could only be one, and he wanted to be the one. He wanted to keep living, and Kid Loki was in the way of that. And his method of ensuring that happened was really tragic and wrong. And yeah, Ikol was old Loki, or as close to it as possible in the circumstances, hence his willingness to resort to those measures. He just learned some lessons from Kid Loki, and maybe after the merge there were some traces of Kid Loki left behind which led to the guilt that led to him changing his ways. But he started out as the old Loki, or at least a very close approximation, there were signs of that all throughout Young Avengers and Agent of Asgard, not just at the end, and he's still in there, changing his title and role doesn't change that. I think Ewing may have intended that this was a new version, since he wiped his memory, but that lasted all of one issue, Aaron went back on that, and the Loki in Thor has all the memories and baggage of the old one. Loki's family treat him as the old Loki BECAUSE HE IS, in all the ways that matter. The only one who didn't have the memories of the original Loki was Kid Loki, all the rest are the same character, there is a chain of events and character development that go all the way back to when he was born in Jotunheim, the fact that he is different is just character development, not because he kept getting replaced with new versions.

    And that is why I want him to find a workaround here, I want him to find a way to stick around. Kid Loki was cute and fun and all, and i loved JIM. but Why I find the current version interesting is because he has that long history that he is fighting against, I don't want that to all be erased, I'm not particularly interested in another reboot from scratch, and i'm glad Aaron kept his history intact.
    Last edited by Raye; 04-08-2019 at 10:58 AM.

  14. #149
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    So current Loki is the old Loki just different due to character development. Because I was wondering if current Loki was just a mixture of Ikol and kid Loki or if Ikol was just imagined by kid Loki.

  15. #150
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    The baby's.... GETTING AN ALL-NEW SERIES!



    By Daniel Kibblesmith and Oscar Bazaldua. Good creative team, but Daniel's more of a comedy writer, so this might be a little lighter. "New direction and new responsibilities."
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

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