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  1. #1576
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Actually, I only started doing them on youtube (I like that more than Spotify because a) i use Youtube more, since I use an MP3 player or Google (I'm all on Android) for just listening to shit b) i like seeing the videos) starting with the Del Mundo run, because I thought that was fun. So here's that one, which kinda goes up to WotR, but the new one has the tail end of that: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...yi3b3AWHWQQAfF before that i sometimes made playlists but they were just kinda in my own Mp3 player kinda thing and usually just little ones for a character or shorter arc, though I would occasionally share a song here that seemed particularly fitting, some of them have been used in the new playlists or are waiting in the wings.

    and the drawing, I dug it out, and will finish it, but the drawing I did for my sister's christmas present was a hit, she loved it, (we celebrate on Christmas Eve rather than Day, holdover from my dad being Danish) but.... it ran one or two of the colours i need for the Loki drawing dry, and I will need to replace them before i can finish that. but for a reminder, here's the inks as they stand right now, along with the colour plan (I know what it means):



    A bit dark, but you get the idea. I can not change the crown to the new style without starting over for inks, but I had already planned to put him in a sort of snowy background (this was drawn before he became king of Jotunheim, but he was with Laufey) so that fits. Yeah he's all serious and stuff, i may do a more fun one later, too.

    Also, look what I finally got properly framed:


  2. #1577
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Nic Klein posted a cute little image of Thor for Christmas, but a couple details made me kind of suspicious and it sent my mind going odd places with speculation which, I know, will likely end up going nowhere, but what the hell, let's have one last go at wild guesses about the new run before it comes out next week:


    https://twitter.com/NicKlein/status/1209854798020907008

    so what's suspicious? the green hat and mistletoe, both are things associated with Loki. Like, I get that they are also both associated with Christmas/Yule, but why not a red hat, it is more typical for Christmas and it is one of Thor's colours too, right? And I kind of got to thinking, isn't it weird that Thor is apparently retired from the Avengers, as per previously released pages, and yet he is ALSO going trekking across the galaxy to fight this 'Black Winter'? why is he retired from superheroing on Earth, because, one would assume, he feels his duties as All-Father take priority, and he can't devote enough time to that, but at the same time he can devote time to go gallivanting all over the galaxy on a big cosmic adventure? I know the Black Winter, whatever/whoever that is, is a threat to Asgard and perhaps to the galaxy or universe as a whole, so it needs to be dealt with, but still. did he maybe.... leave someone behind to stand in for him in Asgard? Someone who has the abilty to look/sound just like him? someone who has things of his own to attend to in a whole other realm, so his presence may not be missed in Asgard? someone who had a sorta-kinda similar plot in the movies? or bears certain similarities to Cates' Dr Strange story that also had Loki stepping into another character's role? I'm just saying, it's a possibility. Maybe why we haven't seen/head more of Loki in the preview stuff is because he doesn't look like himself.

    Also, apparently Nic Klein has a dog named Loki, so i think he might have a soft spot for him, so...

    Or, alternately it is just a cute little image and means nothing, either way we'll find out in a week.

    *edit - I accidentally posted before i was done, finished now
    Last edited by Raye; 12-25-2019 at 02:15 PM.

  3. #1578
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    *pokes thread* people done with Christmas and stuff now?

    It's a long shot, sure, but still think i may be on to something with the above, though the new Thor preview does nothing to prove or disprove it. https://screenrant.com/marvel-thor-r...comic-preview/ Loki is not in the preview, it's pages we have seen before, but now with dialogue. But It does definitely seem to support what we were speculating before, about how Loki may have been cancelled at least in part due to wanting to explore similar themes as Cates wanted to with Thor, but with the characters reversed, the whole 'everyone is telling me i should be happy with this, but I'm not' thing is laid on pretty thick there.

    On that note, I came across this video, and while it may seem completely unrelated about Loki, it got me thinking:



    Ok, so it's about Mr. Peanutbutter's character development in Bojack Horseman (i love that show, sad that is is ending soon, but at least it got to go out with a proper ending) which may not seem related to Loki at all, I know. But as i watched it, I realized that what is said about Mr Peanutbutter and how he was created as a foil to Bojack, representing his opposite traits is also true for Loki. But once that role was no longer needed, he got character development so that he was able to stand on his own as a standalone character without just reflecting a lighter and happier version of Bojack's life. This could easily be applied to Loki, but, you know, reversed. Mr. Peanutbutter got more negative traits and flaws to make him more well rounded, but also not as good of a person when his role as Bojack's foil came to an end, Loki got more positive traits.

    Loki, the circumstances of losing his 'foil' status are a bit more complicated, though. It's a little harder to pin down when it happened, because it still hasn't entirely happened, lots of writers still try to use Loki as a foil for Thor, and vice versa. But it's turned into a square peg round hole situation. What this video highlighted for me is why that is not working so well these days. A foil should, ideally, be a protagonist's opposite in order to highlight the traits you want highlighted, but now with Loki, because his character development happened, it means he is no longer Thor's opposite in a lot of ways, so he is not working very well as Thor's foil no matter how much they want to keep trying to make that work. This is kinda why Loki got cancelled, when you think about it, if we are right about what i said above. Kibblesmith wanted Thor to be Loki's foil in that, Loki was all like 'being king sucks, it's boring, i feel like my life is over' while having Thor be like 'this is great for you, you should be happy and content with this!' and by all appearances loving being king. But then apparently Cates wanted to do the same story with Thor. Suddenly Thor can not be Loki's foil, because they now have the exact same motivations and traits, at least in regards to the 'being king sucks' thing. It's also entirely possible Cates, as so many before him, wants to use Loki as Thor's foil in that regard, just because it's tradition, everyone seems to think Loki needs to be Thor's foil, and vice versa. (though from the preview, it seems Sif may be filling that role) While some fans will argue this means Loki has to go back to being a villain so he can properly fill the role again, I think Mr Peanutbutter here illustrates that he doesn't have to be Thor's foil to continue having a place in Thor's story, but he does need to be able to stand as his own character apart from Thor. I think he's already gotten the development needed, they just seem reluctant to make the final push, and keep trying to mash him into a role he no longer fits. they keep setting him up with the opportunity to carve out a new role, but then refusing to actually take it, he keeps seeming to be on the edge of doing so, then gets sucked back in. It may be that Cates intends to shove him right back into the role of foil in his run. again. So Mr Peanutbutter had the role removed for plot reasons, so got character development in order to make him a more viable character, Loki got character development to the point the foil role no longer fits. Same basic result, but the reasoning is a bit different.

    I think Aaron got a bit meta here in that regard, with Loki being so frustrated and sad at being unable to escape a role he no longer felt he fits, but he still seemed reluctant to make that final push, even if he made the roles explicit, and left it open at the end for Loki to try to find a new role for himself. Really, the 'roles' that Aaron set up, the cosmic jobs that must always be filled, the 'Thor' the 'Loki', the they're just narrative roles, but given an in-universe framing, because Asgard has for a while now been set up as a big story that works according to story rules, that Loki is keeping the sun alive with stories just kind of highlights this. (ok, so Aaron did give him a new role, just... not in the present) Thor is the protagonist, Loki is (or was) the foil/antagonist, the dark mirror of the protagonist, and so on. But then character development happened to Loki, and he no longer fits the foil/antagonist role, but they keep trying to make it fit, when they should be doing what happened with Mr Peanutbutter, and finding him a new role where he does not have to stand in opposition to Thor. Hopefully this is the route Cates is taking rather than trying to find a new way to mash Loki into that role.
    Last edited by Raye; 12-27-2019 at 10:33 PM.

  4. #1579
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    *pops back into thread* Yeah for the most part at least for me, I’m just ready to get this relatively shitty year over with and hoping next year is better
    The preview does feel like its solidifying that theory of similar themes being a possible reason Loki unfortunately got canceled. It’s weird how they couldn’t just write Thor to start hating his job too as time went on that way it ends up being more in line with how Cates is planning on writing him if that was the main problem.( I do wish they wrapped up more on the whole frost giant issue I really liked drrf too maybe he might pop up again someday.) That could be something that they can have a common understanding on how they both aren’t happy with where they are being kings. Nic Klein looks like he’s going to be an amazing artist for the series from what we’ve seen so far. That’s a cute Yule Thor picture and it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for that to be Loki in disguise and cool he’s got a dog named after him probably does have a soft spot.
    Huh you know I never would’ve thought all that character development would go on in that show I thought it was just another goofy adult show but now I might check it out when I get the chance. That’s an interesting thing you’ve got going about foils and I agree with most of it only I’m not sure Cates would have Loki be Thors foil in regards to not liking the job of being king only because we’ve seen Loki already hating the job and being miserable. Plus, like you said Sif appears to be filling that role already. Even if they gloss over the Loki comics Aaron still left him on the throne in an “ok now what” situation and just going off on how Cates handled Loki In Doctor Strange he seems to stick with development already done. I could be wrong though because this is now his Thor story and not a side story borrowing a few Thor characters. I do hope too that he does try to do something different with Loki other than just being in another role against Thor and instead a fresh direction. I can’t help but have faith in him doing a great job though he seems like a cool guy and the previews so far have been promising so I can’t wait till next week. Yeah, Aaron did seem to go pretty meta with it and I didn’t expect Loki to end up keeping the sun burning alive with stories nor that ending too. (Also, awesome painting I like how you did the color work and shading and that’s great you were able to get that artwork properly framed!)
    Last edited by DragonsRazor; 12-29-2019 at 12:00 AM.

  5. #1580
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I'm just kinda anxious about the new run, i guess, and impatient for it to begin, so we can see what Cates does with Loki, and Thor, and everyone else. I know Cates handled Loki really well in Dr Strange, I mean my avatar is from his run, it was probably my favorite depiction of Loki, even if it didn't last all that long. But as you mention, Cates was not in control of Loki's direction when he did that, he kind of had to just work with what Aaron was doing. Though, to be fair, the same could be said of Slott and Duggan, and I did not care for their take at all, so obviously there was some degree of wiggle room there. I mean, all at the same time, we had Aaron's take in Thor, Cates take in Dr Strange, Slott's in Spider-Man, and North's in Squirrel Girl, and though they all were starting from the same starting point, they all emphasized different aspects, so... But now that Cates has full control of the character and is the one who gets to make decisions about his future direction (along with the editors) he may want to go in a different direction, we don't know.

    And yeah, while I guess i can see why they might want to cancel Loki's book if Cates wanted to deal with the same themes (and when deciding between Thor and Loki, or Cates and Kibblesmith, well, Thor/Cates wins) because two books both saying kinda the same thing with the main character may be sort of redundant, I don't think Thor and Loki actually have to have opposing views on this matter. I think it could be interesting to see them finally AGREE on something for once, and kind of bond over a shared experience, where they both actually understand where the other is coming from for the first time in a very long while. but I do hope Cates does not just ignore Kibblesmith's run, I hope Verity continues to appear, and Drrf, at the very least, and I hope Loki does not have a complete change of opinion on being king, just so he can act as a foil to Thor for that aspect. I could understand if the Now and Then stuff is dropped, along with some of the Frost Giant rebellion stuff, if it does not contribute to the main plot of what Cates is doing, but at the very least keep Verity and Drrf around in some capactiy.

    and yeah, Bojack is amazing. I know it might look like just another Family Guy or whatever, and it does definitely have some very goofy and absurd things going on, especially when Todd is involved, but under all the crazy absurdity, really it is a character study of a deeply flawed main character, and his supporting cast, so obviously it is right up my alley. It deals a lot with various forms of nihilism, and is one of the best depictions I have ever seen of someone dealing with severe depression and addiction, and them attempting (and often failing) to climb out of that deep dark pit. You know a show has some engrossing and well developed characters when what is widely considered to be the best episode of the show, is, I shit you not, nothing but a 25 minute monologue, and it is completely engrossing. Bojack rambles and rants for 25 minutes straight, with no other characters saying a single word, (except in a brief flashback in the beginning, but Will Arnett voices both parts) and it is phenomenal. But it is not all monologues, it also has some incredibly inventive and experimental episodes that can get very surreal, in a thought provoking way. The first half of the final season saw Bojack apparently finally make some real progress at cleaning up his life and becoming a better, happier person, but then one of his darker moments from his past seems set to make a comeback and cause problems in the second half. If you do begin watching though, just be aware that it does take a little while for it to find it's footing, it doesn't start out as anything too special, to be honest, but it gets better and better as it goes.

  6. #1581
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    new image released, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM8B24DU...g&name=900x900 Loki is not in it. Or is he? actually, I suspect he really isn't. But with the presence of multiple Heralds of Galactus and the solicit for issue 3 mentioning Galactus, I'm now betting Thor's transformation is Power Cosmic related, he may be a new Herald. I suspect the bit of continuity that Cates mentioned that he was surprised no one had really done anything with is that technically the Destroyer now belongs to Galactus, it was traded to him years ago, but then Loki stole it back, and it was just never mentioned again, Galactus apparently just kinda let it go. But he may be coming to collect, and Thor's walking around wearing the Destroyer's arm, so... but if that is the case, i suspect it is not something that is permanent, and the design will go away along with the connection to the Power Cosmic, if that is the case.

    Loki's absence is slightly worrying, I would have wanted him to be standing with the Asgardians here, and his absence in this panel may point to him standing against them. but like Sif isn't there either, or I dunno, Angela, etc. so maybe there just wasn't room, but... I mean he's Thor's brother.

  7. #1582
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    I'm holding off on my expectations, worry and opinion until the first issue at least comes out to see how the story initiates and if there are any hints, comments or direction action regarding Loki. I do agree, I have my reservations that there will be anything positive in terms of story for Loki, but I want to wait till this first issue.

    I can see your theory on how Loki will be in disguise as King Thor to keep the peace and visual of Thor on the throne, while Thor is in space. But at the same time, who knows. Ugh, when does that issue come out?
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  8. #1583
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I mean yeah, I am not saying it will for sure be bad for Loki, and that Cates did well with him in Dr Strange makes me less worried than i would be otherwise... but at the same time, it won't be for sure good for him either, and this is a major creative team shift after a long period of time, with Aaron moving on, and Loki doesn't have his own book to shield him (like happened with Young Avengers to an extent, I think) so there is that bit of uncertainty and worry. But it comes out this Wednesday so not long to wait, now.

    I am actually surprised everyone doesn't think i am completely nuts with the Loki in disguise thing, especially given the inspiration for that idea, lol. I am doing the biggest 'CALLED IT!!' ever if that turns out to be true, considering I am pretty sure I was the only one to think that when he posted that picture, and I know it is a long shot. It WOULD explain Loki's absence in that image, though, if at that point Thor had already gone all cosmic and this was Loki stepping into his place for the first time. Pretty sure, given what we have seen of the other pages, that this is from near the end of the issue. But you can see the edge of Mjolnir there, and I dunno if Loki is ready for that yet, but he could also make an illusory one, and it would also make sense that Thor going all cosmic would have a big weighty scene surrounded by the Heralds, so.... but, on the other hand, the whole 'disguise' thing doesn't really work if everyone else sees Thor go all cosmic. If that does end up being the case, I think it would be like, beyond Thor and Loki themselves, Sif knows, since she can see everything now, so trying to keep it from her would be foolish, maybe Surfer, maybe Freyja and Odin, and that's it, or there would be no point.

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