Loki Appreciation 2019

[Pallux]

Though maybe somewhere in the middle is closer... so... this, i guess?

L M A O

hey, if anyone's capable of both being horribly disgusting and still having showmanship, it should be Loki.

Oooh yeahhh I'd totally forgotten about the Wolverine stuff! I haven't read any of that Wolvie-Loki comic, is it any good? I'd like them to have some (preferably public!!!) interaction in WotR. Wolverine isn't generally a character I'm hugely interested in but it'd be fun to see these two characters who in a lot of ways seem like polar opposites, have some kind of rapport.

I like Loki best when he's being on the non-conformist side. He definitely gives off a vibe that he likes what he likes and he's just going to go with it. Which can come into conflict with his simultaneous desire for acceptance. He wants to be accepted by his family, but not at the cost of giving up who he is, and I think adopting some non-traditional costume choices, like the black nails and stuff, and not being all ripped (since both the Asgardians and the giants value physical strength and fighting prowess) or coming across as less masculine, helps show that.

100% agreed! Also, idk where you folks are in this, but seeing Sara Pichelli's Loki in the fcbd issue was like a religious experience lol. Giving male form Loki the black lips? Inspiring! Visionary! Genius! Etc.!!!

pichloki1.jpg

And sometimes it looks like artists know that Loki is supposed to look less burly than what they usually have to draw so they mentally start out with the template of their usual guy look, so to speak, and try to alter it a bit to look more Loki-ish. I'm not trying to bash artists, it's just that a lot of people have one standard way of drawing men and women and you can often tell if they're not used to drawing people that don't fit those templates so well. (And I'm talking about both face and body.) Whereas in this case it looks like she didn't whittle him down from a standard Big Comics Guy design, but started out with a foundation that is Loki-appropriate.


lol @ the eyebrowless thing. Definitely made for a gobliny child (although I still thought he was cute!). Funny how you brought up Marilyn Manson, I forgot he didn't have eyebrows. I actually think he looks rather soft and endearing in that pic, since I'm so used to seeing him with harsh makeup haha! But I definitely know what you mean!
(When I think of weird eyebrowless artists my mind goes to Ziggy Stardust era David Bowie, who was very invested in looking weird and alien, sure, but also androgynous and sexy Though Loki really is more about that goth vibe than the colourful Ziggy vibe. I'm definitely not saying I want modern Loki to lose his eyebrows, I just... I guess I just really wanted to bring Bowie into this thread? idk)

He is a very fanservicy character, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Why can't we have a hot guy character who is actually designed to appeal to young women? Straight men get that sort of fanservice all the time!

I'm so with you on that! I don't *need* Loki to be beautiful; I've seen Loki looking gross and sketchy in ways that I like and think fits the trickster image I have in my head. But when you decide he should look weird and sketchy and then hand him over to other artists, there's a good chance they'll come up with something that I DON'T think fits Loki. Yeah I'm picky about this. But even if everyone drew exactly the kind of weird/sketchy I like, I'm just too psyched about Loki getting to be that hot-and-also-specifically-hot-to-girls (/people who aren't only attracted to the beefcake type) character and it'd be a shame to lose that. I'm a lesbian so it's not exactly like it's aimed at me lol, but I'm extremely precious about those few male characters that get be designed specifically with what women might find attractive in mind, instead of just happening to be attractive to some women or being popular with women in-universe but really being designed with what men might want to be in mind.

[Prof. Aegis]

hey, if anyone's capable of both being horribly disgusting and still having showmanship, it should be Loki.


100% agreed! Also, idk where you folks are in this, but seeing Sara Pichelli's Loki in the fcbd issue was like a religious experience lol. Giving male form Loki the black lips? Inspiring! Visionary! Genius! Etc.!!!

pichloki1.jpg

And sometimes it looks like artists know that Loki is supposed to look less burly than what they usually have to draw so they mentally start out with the template of their usual guy look, so to speak, and try to alter it a bit to look more Loki-ish. I'm not trying to bash artists, it's just that a lot of people have one standard way of drawing men and women and you can often tell if they're not used to drawing that don't fit those templates so well. (And I'm talking about both face and body.) Whereas in this case it looks like she didn't whittle him down from a standard Big Comics Guy design, but started out with a foundation that is Loki-appropriate.


I'm so with you on that! I don't *need* Loki to be beautiful; I've seen Loki looking gross and sketchy in ways that I like and think fits the trickster image I have in my head. But when you decide he should look weird and sketchy and then hand him over to other artists, there's a good chance they'll come up with something that I DON'T think fits Loki. Yeah I'm picky about this. But even if everyone drew exactly the kind of weird/sketchy I like, I'm just too psyched about Loki getting to be that hot-and-also-specifically-hot-to-girls (/people who aren't only attracted to the beefcake type) character and it'd be a shame to lose that. I'm a lesbian so it's not exactly like it's aimed at me lol, but I'm extremely precious about those few male characters that get be designed specifically with what women might find attractive in mind, instead of just happening to be attractive to some women or being popular with women in-universe but really being designed with what men might want to be in mind.

I completely missed that issue but wow! I am hunting that down. Her Loki is fantastic! For me it also ties well into the AoA series of Loki's look and behavior. Very cool!

[Rosebunse]

Sara Pichelli is just good with male characters. She is great at working with slimmer figures without making them too thin. But I loved her take on Loki; his long fingers, the lipstick, the graceful yet menacing way he twists around...perfect!


I was thinking of scenarios of how Loki will get out of this and one that keeps coming up is that after he is gotten out, he tries to explain why he needs to die and everyone just thinks he's in bad shock or something, so they keep trying to assure him that he isn't an awful monster, all the while ignoring his increasing desperation until Loki just gives up lol

The substantially less funny idea is that Thor will kill Laufey and has to be stopped from killing Loki by Logan, who talks him down from it because it reminds him of what he had to do to Daken. I say this because Aaron is very well known for his Wolverine and he has given some very tortured portrayals of Logan in the past.

[Raye]

I still think Loki has to reach that conclusion himself for it to be really meaningful in terms of his character development. Character development has to have a sense of agency and be self driven for it to resonate, so i just really don't want this to all be in other character's hands. I am not against characters needing a rescue sometimes in general... but in this particular case, it's clear Loki is at a turning point where he can either give up on himself, or continue trying to fight his fate, and I just feel very strongly that he has to make that decision himself, and absolutely can not lose agency here by having to rely entirely on the actions of others, or the character development won't ring true. a pep talk, maybe, but I also don't think any of the characters gathered here, even Thor or Wolverine, would be likely to give him a pep talk like that just now.

Judging by how the Strike Force issue for Freyja's mission went, i am guessing that issue 4 will present it with fairly bare bones plot, due to having to fit a lot in, and then the Strike Force issue will flesh it out, so it may be that's where we see more of the internal conflict happening, plus maybe some in Thor, afterwards, since I doubt Aaron would want to leave that entirely in someone elses hands.

L M A O

hey, if anyone's capable of both being horribly disgusting and still having showmanship, it should be Loki.

Oooh yeahhh I'd totally forgotten about the Wolverine stuff! I haven't read any of that Wolvie-Loki comic, is it any good? I'd like them to have some (preferably public!!!) interaction in WotR. Wolverine isn't generally a character I'm hugely interested in but it'd be fun to see these two characters who in a lot of ways seem like polar opposites, have some kind of rapport.

it's... ok... it's more fun in terms of potential than in execution, imo. Though it's gotten somewhat better over time, I really don't like Duggan's voice for Loki, it mostly lacks that little bit of vulnerability and playfulness that is present in other depictions, he's very full on arrogant *******. But i like the idea of him and Wolverine becoming sorta-kinda friends.

I'm so with you on that! I don't *need* Loki to be beautiful; I've seen Loki looking gross and sketchy in ways that I like and think fits the trickster image I have in my head. But when you decide he should look weird and sketchy and then hand him over to other artists, there's a good chance they'll come up with something that I DON'T think fits Loki. Yeah I'm picky about this. But even if everyone drew exactly the kind of weird/sketchy I like, I'm just too psyched about Loki getting to be that hot-and-also-specifically-hot-to-girls (/people who aren't only attracted to the beefcake type) character and it'd be a shame to lose that. I'm a lesbian so it's not exactly like it's aimed at me lol, but I'm extremely precious about those few male characters that get be designed specifically with what women might find attractive in mind, instead of just happening to be attractive to some women or being popular with women in-universe but really being designed with what men might want to be in mind.

Yeah, I like how Loki is presented right now, and I don't need him to be all pretty in terms of grooming, I am fine with how they've grunged him up a bit, presumably to show how he's kind of running himself ragged and letting himself go a bit, but the facial and body structure, that's still attractive. Forgetting to shave and get a haircut, or fix his coat, doesn't change that. And yeah, I love that he's being presented as attractive to girls. The guys have all sorts of eye candy characters, the women have comparatively few. And you sometimes hear the argument that 'men are objectified too!' because you have a bunch of big burly men in spandex running around, while clearly not having any idea what women actually find attractive. Or understanding that different women (or gay men) will have different tastes. (and ignoring the fact that it's not so much about the basics of a character design, as much as it is about how that character is presented on the page)

so i finally saw the movie. and Yeah, his part in it actually has some really interesting potential.
spoilers:

So, even though I think i would have preferred a take on JIM rather than this, as a way to bring him back in the MCU, especially given that they seem to be focusing on some of the newer comics stories with the new status quos at the end there, with Falcap and all, this does have some potential as well. Could explain the Disney+ series, as well, but there needs to be some more explanation for both to really make them work. He has the Space Stone, so he can teleport great distances with that, but the Disney+ show says he's traveling through time, so... something doesn't quite line up there, if this was a setup for the show. You also have to get around the fact that due to how MU time travel works, and the movie went to great lengths to explain that they are going with the usual MU comic book rules, of creating alternate timelines when you change something in the past, then he needs a way to get to the prime MCU timeline. But if they could make Gamora work, and Cap crossed timelines, they could make this work, too. But like Gamora, he'd lose a good chunk of his character development, just, everything since the end of Avengers, gone. It might be easy to think this was a was a way to rest him to villain, except for the fact that they updated one of the websites to explain that he was under the influence of the Mind Stone himself during Avengers, making him act more villainous than normal. i'd have preferred to see this covered in the movie itself, but on the other hand, there wasn't really a way to work that into the story we got here, so maybe it will be explained in the show.

end of spoilers

[Raye]

Some breaking news, Loki will apparently be in a Wiccan and Hulkling story in War Scrolls #2... https://twitter.com/meakoopa/status/1124012810747432962 and based on the name, it may be Lady Loki.

It will be fun to see them interacting again! And this seems to point to a resurrection next issue of WotR, because War Scrolls 2 comes out May 29th, and WotR 4 comes out May 15th. So he's gotta be alive and kicking again by the end of 4 to go hang with Billy and Teddy!

[Pallux]

WHAT!!!!!! I'm so excited holy ****!!!!!!!!!!

If we get to see female Loki again I'd be over the moon, please please please! (Idk what to make of the title yet whichever the case. Except that it implies Loki will be a significant part if it and not a 2 panel appearance ofc hell yeah)

[Rosebunse]

I guess my thing is that even if Loki is the one to get rescued without helping himself much, his story could be resolved in later issues. This scenario seems a bit likely just because there are so many things going on in these issues that I question if you can fit Loki in too much if you also have to fit in Thor, the rescue team, the strike team, Captain Marvel's team, Jane and her team, and now Venom and Malekith. Then again, Loki making Laufey explode would be fun to see. The art would be spectacular!

The issue with the Thor issues is that it seems like that's where we will see how Cul's mission is going and then you have the past and future Thor stuff.

The Wiccan and Hulkling stuff is also exciting! Seems like a drag show would be odd during an apocalypse, but who knows? Not that I wouldn't mind some Lady Loki or just Loki in normal drag.

Out of all of the male characters, there are relatively few I can think of who you can count as fanservice to us ladies. Gambit, Spiderman, Iron Fist...there might be more, I don't know. And it isn't just about sex appeal, but just how they're drawn and yes, how they're presented. Why can't we expect more of that? Female readers are a critical audience who need to be catered to, which is why the Loki stuff is great! It feels sort of like it's for us! I mean, more female characters are great and all, but fanservice is just great.

spoilers:

If I remember correctly, even when Avengers was first out, there was speculation and implications that Loki was being at least somewhat controlled by the stone and driven insane by what he had experienced after the events of Thor. Plus, movie Loki was introduced fairly early on in Loki's redemption story, so I feel like at least some of his characterization was done with the idea that no one was sure how he was going to be received. I didn't mind certain characters like Gamora and Loki not being resurrected in the main timeline. It gives their deaths some weight and it leaves the story rather bittersweet that even if versions of them survived, the ones we knew didn't.

end of spoilers

[Raye]

I don't see how they could do it later. He's at a fork in the road, and he has to pick a path now, it won't work later. He can't make a decision about his future, particularly if it includes the choice of whether he wants to live or not, after that decision has already been made for him by someone else. I just think you are not giving Loki enough credit for his part in the story, you keep acting like he has to be pushed to the background and not be the focus because everyone else matters more, and I just don't see that as the case. He matters enough to this story to be a focus. He deserves some spotlight time as much as anyone else in the story, especially after how issue 1 ended. And I think Loki can still appear in the next issue of Thor. Just because it was solicited as a Cul story doesn't necessarily mean the entire issue will be solely focused on Cul, it's entirely possible that there will be an A plot and a B plot. And given Cul's parallels to Loki, both of them being the sibling that went bad and all, I could definitely see some compare and contrast stuff going on there, depending on what happens with Cul.

I'm really excited to see Loki reunite with Wiccan and Hulkling. While i understand, from a character perspective, why Loki cut ties, because he didn't want to risk hurting them if he should lose control again or go bad, it was a sad decision, because I think they had potential to be friends, and I think they could have helped him if he had allowed it. And this can just be so fun and adorable.

On the Marvel side there is also Noh-Varr, Daken, Namor, Nightcrawler, a bit oddly... on the DC side of things, Nightwing and his amazing ass. There are a others where they may be attractive, but it's not generally intentionally played to in the comics themselves, and they aren't drawn in a fanservicey way. But considering how many female characters there are where being beautiful/sexy is frequently referenced, and they are treated in a fanservicey way by the art of the books, the list of male characters where they do the same is definitely pretty small, and I am all for having Loki added to that list. I really hope there are some pinups in the new summer special just lie the old Swimsuit Specials, and Loki is one of them, and not in a jokey way like they sometimes did.

spoilers:

yeah, that was one of the fan speculations floating around to explain him suddenly being a lot less sympathetic than he was in Thor, but until recently that's all it was, speculation. it wasn't until this year that his bio was updated, making that fanon into canon. That they did, suggests to me they aren't looking to revert him to full blown villain in the movies. And I had a thought, that they could still get Kid Loki out of this, IF when Loki makes the jump across timelines, something goes wrong like when Scott was having his aging up and down problems when they were testing the time travel

end of spoilers

[Raye]

Marvel sent me an email to subscribe to new series at 40% off as they often do with new books, because i subscribe to other print books (Moon Girl and Champions, soon to be Squirrel Girl) for my niece. So if you prefer to get it in print, that's an option: https://subscriptions.marvel.com/sto...eid=3c8eac583d

But what's interesting is that in the email, they changed the solicit text, so we have a few new clues:

"You can never keep a good God down, and that is doubly true for the God of lies! After his apparent demise in the pages of The War Of The Realms, Loki has learned a valuable lesson – don’t get caught! While Thor entrusts Loki with a valuable mission that no one else could possibly handle, Loki has a trick up his sleeve and nobody is safe! Writer Daniel Kibblesmith explores the depths of the Marvel Universe with artist Oscar Bazaldua in the pages of Loki!"

So Thor sends Loki on a mission, huh? hm..... Maybe it's not so much ruler of Jotunhaim as an infiltration mission since that is Loki's specialty. though that infiltrarion may be linked to him being Laufey's heir, and that's why he's the only one who can do the mission. Also, sounds like he may be facing some temptation to betray Thor, but hopefully he resists the urge. interesting that Thor is trusting him with an important mission at all, though, considering Thor's current feelings about Loki.

Just because people may be interested in her book as well, here is the altered text on Valkyrie:

"In the wake of The War Of The Realms, Jane Foster has been gifted the power to guide the dead to Valhalla. After years as Thor’s steadfast companion and her own tenure as the Goddess of Thunder, she’s ready to carve a path out for all who would stand in her way. With a new mission and a renewed purpose, Jane Foster takes to the skies with her mystical armament! Writers Jason Aaron and Al Ewing team up with artist Cafu for a journey into mystery with the heroic adventures of Valkyrie:Jane Foster!"

[Pallux]

Ooooo that new solicit text sounds promising. Sounds like we'll see Thor and Loki interacting. (Yeah that's... a pretty low bar lmao but it's important to me!) I would LOVE them to be on good terms but even if they're not exactly where I'd like them, I love when it's clear they're part of each other's lives. Also: "explores the depths of the Marvel Universe"? My first thought was just that Loki's travelling a lot and the opportunity of having him meet a lot of characters. But "depths"? Does that sound like maybe he's gonna be dealing with real shady stuff/characters? I mean, he has been doing that already and IF WotR is going where I hope it's going Loki-wise, his face turn will be established in-universe, and it'll be harder to convince villains he's still totally on their side. Especially after already having pulled that once with Malekith. And it'd be a bit of a retread of said Malekith stuff, as far as the villain act agent thing goes. But it sounds like the kinda thing writers would want to do with Loki ("a mission that no one else could possibly handle").

IDK, but the word "depths" had me thinking of double L Hell, and subsequently of how much I'd like for Loki to have a Mephisto plot

I'm not convinced it'll have anything to do with Jotunheim. There's opportunities, and I loved seeing him with the Frost Giants, floating in mid-air and looking like a pixie, but I feel we've done that now and I'm ready to see him in another setting. And although I have also thought about what if he became king, I feel like he's ideal for moving around for both setting and story flexibility. This is more "what I'd do" than a prediction but shrug.
I just assumed the Jotunheim symbol was part of a new logo he was given to go with his a new status quo, but I admit I'd feel slightly bad for Loki having that associated with him just bc of his rejected parentage and not bc of anything story-related. I'm sure we could spin it into some sort of healing/acceptance if we tried tho lol.


Re: the fanservice

1. I had no idea Spidey was fanservicey
2. I don't know squat about Namor beyond the classic design, but when I saw him in Aaron's Avengers recently I was glad to finally see a male character wearing something closer to the fetish gear comic gals get to wear lol. He looks great, I'm impressed.

[ETA: ok... maybe "depths" sounds more like sea stuff than underworld stuff but.... whatever]

[Rosebunse]

I don't want to say that Loki isn't important, because I think he's very important to this story. I guess I just sort of feel that there's a lot going on and so far, Aaron has been doing things pretty well and I'm trying to make a guess based on that.

I also sort of want some of my own fanservicy thoughts and fantasies catered too lol

Also, I think Loki has done a lot of bad things and he from a literary point of view, he has to pay a price for what he's done. And right now, he is being confronted by the future he has set in motion and he is also literally paying with his flesh. I guess I just think it's sort of cheap if he's able to get out of this and be immediately fine and dandy. We all know that he's not going to be crippled forever, of course, but for an issue or two isn't asking for too much.

EDIT: All this talk about fanservice and everything does make me wonder, what do we want out of characters? Do we just want to see guys drawn in sexy poses? What else is there to fanservice and creating a more equal representation? And this makes me think back to what I want from this next issue and how I feel weird for wanting it, but then I think, why should I feel weird? And it isn't anyone here really making me feel this way.

I guess what I want from comics and from all media is to put male characters in vulnerable positions the same way we have seen with women. I want to understand why that is sort of not allowed. Of course, it happening to Loki, a character marked by his femininity, is a bit of a cop out.

Also, yes, just look at Spiderman and tell me he isn't appealing to women LOL

I love Namor's whole look. It's just, like, you wonder how they can make him even hotter and they put him in bondage gear.

Another character I think we all are forgetting is Bucky Barnes. The man is fine. Who else? I want to say Johnny Storm? But I don't know, he never really did it for me...

Oh, Scott Summers and Norrin Radd!

[Pallux]

OH BTW, since Raye mentioned the Valkyrie stuff. Does anyone know what happened to Annabelle Riggs? I have to assume they didn't just off her forever when she's so new and promising. I'm asking here because I desperately need her and Loki to interact! I know they sorta did but... that "fetch" Loki wasn't Really kid Loki and he apparently wasn't Really actual Loki either (yeah I was disappointed about the "kid"Loki choice in AotG bc of this. Felt like a waste to give us Loki but then not have it really be relevant to the Loki we're following. Tho I liked visually seeing kid Loki again.) Either way, I want more at some point

AotG was my Annabelle introduction and I IMMEDIATELY thought she seemed right up Loki's alley, going by his recent track record. Intelligent, down to earth lady with good sense and glasses for bonus points. Also she's very nice and I just really really like her. So when this happened



I was 1) delighted (delighted enough to make a screencap to cherish!) and 2) very afraid this wouldn't count for regular Loki. And she turned out to be very kind to him (though I can understand if this doesn't automatically transfer to regular Loki on her part), it was good.


[ETA: Oh we posted nearly simultanuously earlier. I've been keeping out of that particular discussion you two are having just because in this case I'm content to just wait and see what'll happen. Not that I don't have ideas and opinions, I just don't care to get attached to any of 'em for now. That said, I do think it makes sense for Loki's story to have to do this thing (/make the decision, w/e) by himself. (Also I think it'd be badass to see him pull off this seemingly impossible thing) (and he deserves to do smth badass after having some of his wins taken away) His journey has been very internal and it seems logical to keep it that way and resolve it, instead of bringing others into it at seemingly the very end. Just feels... messier, somehow.

I just don't think what you (Rosebunse) are saying sounds like you don't want him to be the focus; to me it sounds like what I want for characters when I like them and want them to be *more* of a focus to others in-universe as well lol! Especially when the character's thing has been so personal, I always feel robbed of catharsis if there wasn't at least 1 person around to witness and understand it.

I said I didn't wanna make predictions, but here's 2 things I want:

• for it to be gross and awful
• for people to know what happened was real, whether that happens during the thing or is told (and believed) after the fact, I'll take it.]

[Prof. Aegis]

I don't want to say that Loki isn't important, because I think he's very important to this story. I guess I just sort of feel that there's a lot going on and so far, Aaron has been doing things pretty well and I'm trying to make a guess based on that.

I also sort of want some of my own fanservicy thoughts and fantasies catered too lol

Also, I think Loki has done a lot of bad things and he from a literary point of view, he has to pay a price for what he's done. And right now, he is being confronted by the future he has set in motion and he is also literally paying with his flesh. I guess I just think it's sort of cheap if he's able to get out of this and be immediately fine and dandy. We all know that he's not going to be crippled forever, of course, but for an issue or two isn't asking for too much.

EDIT: All this talk about fanservice and everything does make me wonder, what do we want out of characters? Do we just want to see guys drawn in sexy poses? What else is there to fanservice and creating a more equal representation? And this makes me think back to what I want from this next issue and how I feel weird for wanting it, but then I think, why should I feel weird? And it isn't anyone here really making me feel this way.

I guess what I want from comics and from all media is to put male characters in vulnerable positions the same way we have seen with women. I want to understand why that is sort of not allowed. Of course, it happening to Loki, a character marked by his femininity, is a bit of a cop out.

Also, yes, just look at Spiderman and tell me he isn't appealing to women LOL

I love Namor's whole look. It's just, like, you wonder how they can make him even hotter and they put him in bondage gear.

Another character I think we all are forgetting is Bucky Barnes. The man is fine. Who else? I want to say Johnny Storm? But I don't know, he never really did it for me...

Oh, Scott Summers and Norrin Radd!

I'm not big fan of fanservice only because it doesn't always translate into good stories or real good character development. My thought is if you have a strong and creative writer, they're going to craft stories that will actually go beyond fanservice and not give fans what they "want", but what they didn't realize they needed and it just amps up the desire for more. Don't get me wrong, I love the little touches and nods and things that just make me as a fan smile and make me feel good. But I love it when I see characters just takes steps that make me like them even more and want more from them. Yep Loki is one.

[Raye]

Ooooo that new solicit text sounds promising. Sounds like we'll see Thor and Loki interacting. (Yeah that's... a pretty low bar lmao but it's important to me!) I would LOVE them to be on good terms but even if they're not exactly where I'd like them, I love when it's clear they're part of each other's lives. Also: "explores the depths of the Marvel Universe"? My first thought was just that Loki's travelling a lot and the opportunity of having him meet a lot of characters. But "depths"? Does that sound like maybe he's gonna be dealing with real shady stuff/characters? I mean, he has been doing that already and IF WotR Is going here I hope it's going Loki-wise, his face turn will be established in-universe, and it'll be harder to convince villains he's still totally on their side. Especially after already having pulled that once with Malekith. And it'd be a bit of a retread of said Malekith stuff, as far as the villain act agent thing goes. But it sounds like the kinda thing writers would want to do with Loki ("a mission that no one else could possibly handle").

IDK, but the word "depths" had me thinking of double L Hell, and subsequently of how much I'd like for Loki to have a Mephisto plot

Mephisto is coming into things in Avengers, that's part of the reason I really hope Loki joins up, he needs to have another go at Mephisto.

I'm not convinced it'll have anything to do with Jotunheim. There's opportunities, and I loved seeing him with the Frost Giants, floating in mid-air and looking like a pixie, but I feel we've done that now and I'm ready to see him in another setting. And although I have also thought about what if he became king, I feel like he's ideal for moving around for both setting and story flexibility. This is more "what I'd do" than a prediction but shrug.
I just assumed the Jotunheim symbol was part of a new logo he was given to go with his a new status quo, but I admit I'd feel slightly bad for Loki having that associated with him just bc of his rejected parentage and not bc of anything story-related. I'm sure we could spin it into some sort of healing/acceptance if we tried tho lol.

I still think Jotunheim will come into play, not just because of the logo but Kibblesmith said he was making a character based on Ice Man (Mega Man, not mutant) which would fit with a Jotunheim setting, and he has been dropping some little teases about Loki being a king...

but yeah, I definitely want him to spend some time on Midgard (and him strolling down the middle of the Brooklyn Bridge definitely suggests that will be a part of things) and Asgard as well. I just feel like Jotunheim will be a big part. Ans also am very excited that he and Thor are working together. while I understand why it's been such a challenge to get them to work with each other, with all the baggage there, I do want them to come to some kind of understanding and be able to have a relationship where they aren't always attacking each other. I think they will accomplish more working together than they would apart. also, it would just be cute.

Also, I think Loki has done a lot of bad things and he from a literary point of view, he has to pay a price for what he's done. And right now, he is being confronted by the future he has set in motion and he is also literally paying with his flesh. I guess I just think it's sort of cheap if he's able to get out of this and be immediately fine and dandy. We all know that he's not going to be crippled forever, of course, but for an issue or two isn't asking for too much.

I think the price has already been paid for his bad deeds. He paid the price for that with the relationships he desires with his family. He doesn't need to be punished for his past forever. If this were real life, maybe but it's not. He's in the situation he's in now because he tried to do something GOOD, saving Freyja, and I don't think he should be punished too much for that.

EDIT: All this talk about fanservice and everything does make me wonder, what do we want out of characters? Do we just want to see guys drawn in sexy poses? What else is there to fanservice and creating a more equal representation? And this makes me think back to what I want from this next issue and how I feel weird for wanting it, but then I think, why should I feel weird? And it isn't anyone here really making me feel this way.

I guess what I want from comics and from all media is to put male characters in vulnerable positions the same way we have seen with women. I want to understand why that is sort of not allowed. Of course, it happening to Loki, a character marked by his femininity, is a bit of a cop out.

I don't think we need to see more people put into positions where they need saving. I don't see that as a good thing with these kinds of stories, I see it as a problem, where certain characters, usually women, were treated more as objects to be saved rather than as actual characters, and I don't think the solution is to add more of it on the other side, it's just to have less of it in general. I think it is ok for characters to be vulnerable at times, sure, but not if it comes at the cost of their agency and their ability to function as a character rather than as an object to be rescued in the service of another character's story.

OH BTW, since Raye mentioned the Valkyrie stuff. Does anyone know what happened to Annabelle Riggs? I have to assume they didn't just off her forever when she's so new and promising. I'm asking here because I desperately need her and Loki to interact! I know they sorta did but... that "fetch" Loki wasn't Really kid Loki and he apparently wasn't Really actual Loki either (yeah I was disappointed about the "kid"Loki choice in AotG bc of this. Felt like a waste to give us Loki but then not have it really be relevant to the Loki we're following. Tho I liked visually seeing kid Loki again.) Either way, I want more at some point

I am assuming what happens to Annabelle will be explained next issue of Asgardians of the Galaxy. From the solicit, it appears it will be a more in depth look at Valkyrie's last stand, and I assume Annabelle will be a part of that. It will be sad if she dies as well, though, but I am not sure how she may get out of that, given that she doesn't have a body of her own.

[ETA: Oh we posted nearly simultanuously earlier. I've been keeping out of that particular discussion you two are having just because in this case I'm content to just wait and see what'll happen. Not that I don't have ideas and opinions, I just don't care to get attached to any of 'em for now. That said, I do think it makes sense for Loki's story to have to do this thing (/make the decision, w/e) by himself. (Also I think it'd be badass to see him pull off this seemingly impossible thing) (and he deserves to do smth badass after having some of his wins taken away) His journey has been very internal and it seems logical to keep it that way and resolve it, instead of bringing others into it at seemingly the very end. Just feels... messier, somehow.

Yeah, I try to not get too attached to theories, but I seem to have really talked myself into wanting this a lot, lol. And what you say is largely the reason, I jut think he needs a win at this point, he's suffered too many losses, (I am not complaining, as i will explain in a bit, i see now it was necessary) and i want him to do something badass, and yeah, it would just feel weird to take what has until no been a very personal journey out of his hands at the last second.

And yeah, I want it to happen in front of at minimum Thor, so they can see for themselves what he has been through.

I'm not big fan of fanservice only because it doesn't always translate into good stories or real good character development. My thought is if you have a strong and creative writer, they're going to craft stories that will actually go beyond fanservice and not give fans what they "want", but what they didn't realize they needed and it just amps up the desire for more. Don't get me wrong, I love the little touches and nods and things that just make me as a fan smile and make me feel good. But I love it when I see characters just takes steps that make me like them even more and want more from them. Yep Loki is one.

Yeah, that's basically my thoughts on this. I am trying to look at this from the perspective of what would make a good story, not just cute fuzzy moments. I get that Thor saving Loki may come across as sweet, but it wouldn't make a very engaging story going forward, especially from Loki's perspective. This has to be bigger than just stringing together fanservicey moments, and sometimes that will mean those kinds of moments will have to be held back or not happen at all. I remember when the reveal first came that the God of Stories win had been taken away from Loki, I was pissed. Because I wanted him to have a win etc. But now that the final pieces are falling into place, I see why that was necessary, and i actually agree that it was he right call. He had to suffer some losses to get him to the point he's at now, where he's ready to give up. I don't want these losses to continue forever, of course, but for now I am fine with it because it made a stronger story in the end, and will make his big comeback that much sweeter.

And as I see it, ever since Loki sacrificed himself, he's been doing a speed run through the Hero's Journey. After spending years denying the call, he rocketed through the first half of it in a single issue, beat for beat, it totally fits. He's currently midway, at the 'abyss/death/rebirth' part. to take away the resolution to that away would ruin the story, even if the individual moments may be nice.

[Rosebunse]

OH BTW, since Raye mentioned the Valkyrie stuff. Does anyone know what happened to Annabelle Riggs? I have to assume they didn't just off her forever when she's so new and promising. I'm asking here because I desperately need her and Loki to interact! I know they sorta did but... that "fetch" Loki wasn't Really kid Loki and he apparently wasn't Really actual Loki either (yeah I was disappointed about the "kid"Loki choice in AotG bc of this. Felt like a waste to give us Loki but then not have it really be relevant to the Loki we're following. Tho I liked visually seeing kid Loki again.) Either way, I want more at some point

AotG was my Annabelle introduction and I IMMEDIATELY thought she seemed right up Loki's alley, going by his recent track record. Intelligent, down to earth lady with good sense and glasses for bonus points. Also she's very nice and I just really really like her. So when this happened



I was 1) delighted (delighted enough to make a screencap to cherish!) and 2) very afraid this wouldn't count for regular Loki. And she turned out to be very kind to him (though I can understand if this doesn't automatically transfer to regular Loki on her part), it was good.


[ETA: Oh we posted nearly simultanuously earlier. I've been keeping out of that particular discussion you two are having just because in this case I'm content to just wait and see what'll happen. Not that I don't have ideas and opinions, I just don't care to get attached to any of 'em for now. That said, I do think it makes sense for Loki's story to have to do this thing (/make the decision, w/e) by himself. (Also I think it'd be badass to see him pull off this seemingly impossible thing) (and he deserves to do smth badass after having some of his wins taken away) His journey has been very internal and it seems logical to keep it that way and resolve it, instead of bringing others into it at seemingly the very end. Just feels... messier, somehow.

I just don't think what you (Rosebunse) are saying sounds like you don't want him to be the focus; to me it sounds like what I want for characters when I like them and want them to be *more* of a focus to others in-universe as well lol! Especially when the character's thing has been so personal, I always feel robbed of catharsis if there wasn't at least 1 person around to witness and understand it.

I said I didn't wanna make predictions, but here's 2 things I want:

• for it to be gross and awful
• for people to know what happened was real, whether that happens during the thing or is told (and believed) after the fact, I'll take it.]

What happens definitely needs to be gross.

And I think you hit on something that I wasn't aware of when you said that I wanted witnesses to what happens. And you're right. No one was there when Loki held the hammer during AXIS, no one was around at the end of AoA when he had his big win, no one was around when he defeated Malekith's assassins. Loki does things in the shadows so often that no one sees when he does something good. So whatever does happen, it needs to be people around, it needs to have an emotional impact on the people around him, or else what is the point? And this means that it needs to look authentic and not like another lie or scheme.

This means that Loki needs to pay a price that is witnessed and seen and judged by those around him. Is him just saving Freya that? He did garner quite a bit of pity and sympathy, but is that enough? It's not that I want him to suffer forever, just an issue or two. Loki isn't your typical character because he has done so many, many bad things. And he's had his good days, but again, as the last Thor issued showed, it is so easy for him to lie to himself and compartmentalize those misdeeds away.

Besides, even if he does suffer quite a big next issue, I'm sure he'll get the big win in the end. He sort of has to.

I'm not big fan of fanservice only because it doesn't always translate into good stories or real good character development. My thought is if you have a strong and creative writer, they're going to craft stories that will actually go beyond fanservice and not give fans what they "want", but what they didn't realize they needed and it just amps up the desire for more. Don't get me wrong, I love the little touches and nods and things that just make me as a fan smile and make me feel good. But I love it when I see characters just takes steps that make me like them even more and want more from them. Yep Loki is one.

I think fanservice is an excellent place to start a story, but it needs to be edited and polished. I mean, many writers are some sort of fan and we have certainly seen plenty of stories where fanservice goes terribly wrong-I'm looking at you, X-Office. But I think fanservice is a place to start. A writer should write what they want to write to please themselves, they should write something that they think fans wills dig, but they also need to write something that works.