Loki Appreciation 2019

[Prof. Aegis]

I still think Loki has to be resurrected here. It just comes back to the first point about Thor's Destroyer arm, (Loki MUST be the one in possession of the arm) and the fact that we have a War Scrolls story with Loki in it coming out prior to issue 5. It just may not happen exactly as I was guessing, but I am pretty damn sure it happens in 4, regardless of the specifics.

It's not such a stretch to think that Laufey teleported in earlier, that he's waiting in his castle this whole time, or something. I'm just saying, it does create a bit of a wrinkle. Now that Malekith lacks Bifrost access, it means Malekith's forces, including Laufey, can not be doing any more teleporting, so he can't be teleporting in after Freyja took control. They're as stuck as the Asgardians were prior to this, at the moment.

And Malekith may still do something more with the blade, I'm just saying, whatever he did there with the blade and Venom was pretty vague, we're not sure exactly what he did.

This was my line of thinking...That due to the timing of events seen in other issues...The upcoming Spidey WotR tie in for instance, that Loki will be back in issue 4. I could be wrong, but they seem to work at keeping these storylines in line and in sync. But we'll see for sure this coming Wednesday and see what the main issue shows along with the tie-in issues.

I first thought that Loki wouldn't return until the 6th issue, more dramatic and would connect right in with his new series, but it would depend on the storyline and what is to come in issues 5 & 6.

[Raye]

It would be dramatic to have him return late, but given all he's going through, I don't think it's enough time to wrap it up adequately. It just feels to me like he needs some time prior to the finale to figure things out as far as what he wants to do with his future, and work things out with Thor and Freyja a bit, (whether that happens in Thor or another spinoff, or the main book, doesn't matter) i think that's necessary for him to do his thing in the finale because he's at a pretty low place right now. I also don't think it would be fair to dump all the resolution to what he's going through on Kibblesmith.

btw. i asked my friend about that A+x issue in the Omnibus, but turned out he only had the first volume, and that would probably be in the second volume, so...

[Prof. Aegis]

It would be dramatic to have him return late, but given all he's going through, I don't think it's enough time to wrap it up adequately. It just feels to me like he needs some time prior to the finale to figure things out as far as what he wants to do with his future, and work things out with Thor and Freyja a bit, (whether that happens in Thor or another spinoff, or the main book, doesn't matter) i think that's necessary for him to do his thing in the finale because he's at a pretty low place right now. I also don't think it would be fair to dump all the resolution to what he's going through on Kibblesmith.

btw. i asked my friend about that A+x issue in the Omnibus, but turned out he only had the first volume, and that would probably be in the second volume, so...

I agree it would be dramatic to have Loki return in issue 6, but also, I agree it wouldn't work for the story and his interactions with Thor and definitely Freya. Loki and Freya's story needs some tying up or at least some resolution. And I am starting to have some concerns over Freya making it out of this series alive. But I do see him coming back and working to help end the War, and whatever comes out of the war, will flow into his solo series. We will know in a few days.

Thanks for asking Raye, totally appreciate it!

[Raye]

You may be right about Freyja not making it. She's facing an army alone, (tho on the upside, she can call in reinforcements, they can't) and if it's Thor giving Loki a mission in his new solo, i mean.... that may kind of imply Thor is in charge of Asgard. Odin can be written out of things temporarily with Odinsleep, which can last as long as needed, Freyja... I dunno. I have had problems with Freyja, I think she's done some shitty things that get glossed over, and I think Loki was a bit quick to forgive her after Agent of Asgard. But at the same time, I think her intentions are good, and I think she regrets what she did to Loki, even if she is too stubborn to really try and make amends. (and vice versa, to be fair) But I do still hope they get a moment together. I want her to see that he made himself something better, I want him to see her be proud of him for once.

Another thingjust occurred to me that may point to Loki is coming back this week. After not seeing Asgardians of the Galaxy in my upcoming issues this week, i checked it's release date, and it's not due until the 22nd. issue 8 came out the 10th of last month, so that's quite a delay, especially considering it by all appearances is to be a more in depth account of the Valkyrie fight with Malekith, which has already happened. So why the delay? could just be an art delay, but 2 weeks is quite a bit. If it's story related, I mean the Valkyries were killed in issue 2 which was weeks ago, so it can't be delayed because of that. So what other character was in Asgardians of the Galaxy that they may delay it for...? Could Loki come back to Angela for the Naglfar beacon, maybe?

And you know what? It's not Loki related, but there is something I have been wondering about, that Asgardians of the Galaxy could also answer. So the Destroyer is there helping to guard the Bifrost, and while it is easy to assume that when Heimdall confiscated their ship, that included the Destroyer, they never did explain who is piloting it. We know it can't be Loki again, because he is still dead at that point, but what if the armor wasn't just taken from the Asgard's Reach, what if it is piloted by Annabelle, who is now without a body of her own? Not an ideal situation for a girl without a body, but it is better than just dying when Valkyrie does.

[Regular man]

I'm curious about the future of Loki as a god, in Agent of Asgard Loki has become god / goddess of stories, it didn't last long but it was very impactful, opening doors to a thousand possibilities always starting from the fact that he remains the god of lies. If he took the Mijolnir he would take the name and title of Thor as god, but I feel it too superficial to signal the fact that he grew up, and comparing him to Thor is not right. Is it possible that he becomes something never seen before ? ( always speaking about a possible new title of god )

[Rosebunse]

I'm curious about the future of Loki as a god, in Agent of Asgard Loki has become god / goddess of stories, it didn't last long but it was very impactful, opening doors to a thousand possibilities always starting from the fact that he remains the god of lies. If he took the Mijolnir he would take the name and title of Thor as god, but I feel it too superficial to signal the fact that he grew up, and comparing him to Thor is not right. Is it possible that he becomes something never seen before ? ( always speaking about a possible new title of god )

This does bring up a good point. If Loki gets the hammer, does that make him the God of Thunder? My feeling that Loki is just going to take the hammer and do his own thing in New York for a bit. That doesn't mean he won't accept some of the responsibilities that come along with it, but he'll admit that he's still the God of Lies.

It's not that Loki isn't still sort of the God of Stories, but that was still him lying to himself. He is still the God of Lies and trying to find the "better" aspects of that is still denying the harm he has done and can still do. Plus, he was disregarding how much his family did mean to him.

I'm not sure if Loki needs to be resurrected here. Is he dead? We know that his magic stopped working, which would imply that he's dead, but maybe he was just dead for a moment before he woke up in Laufey's stomach?

[Raye]

I think Loki is too much of an individualist to start calling himself Thor or the God of Thunder or whatever. Other people have lifted the hammer, the only one who called themselves Thor was Jane, and there were circumstances surrounding that.

I think what Loki has to figure out is that it's not the role that defines him, it's him that defines the role. The God of Stories thing failed because it was never the role that defined him, so just declaring a new one would do nothing, because he's still just himself. He tried to take a shortcut to change, that's why it failed. Loki isn't the god of lies, or stories, or chaos, or mischief, or evil, or thunder.... he's just Loki. The titles are just descriptors of the things he does, so if he gets a new title/role in a 'god of ___' sense, it will be determined by his actions .

this is something Thor has to learn too, in a somewhat different way.

And pretty sure he's dead. It's just that, as I outlined several pages back, I think he can't move on because he was destined for Valhalla because of how he died, and the Valkyries are dead.

edited to add - So looks like we ahve another reason to look forward to the War Scrolls story. Apparently the art ought to be super nice. As pointed out in the Young Avengers thread, Nick Robles has confirmed that he's doing the art. You can see a bunch of his art on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickroblesart/?hl=en

and uh, he did this, so...

[Regular man]

(ʘーʘ) .... unexpected but always well received ლ(◕‿◕ლ)
the color is really precious and the human form is perfect ... I love this art !!

speaking if he takes the name of Thor or not from Loki I could expect everything, I would not say this but he took the body of Sif, the girl with whom Thor came out ahhah this is the charm of the character. ( I trully hope they will bring up the fact that he was or still is the god of stories , that was too cool and well presented in AoA )
Freya from the other hand I am of the opinion that if she does not die something bad will happen, she is using black magic not? in Asgard I don't know if she will be accepted in those conditions, or Freya will leave on her own (however ugly her situation seems this is like a well deserved punishment for what she did in AoA, no mother would do that, Freya showed never to believe in the possible redemption of Loki or in a possible happy future for him ...)

[Raye]

ah, but when he took Sif's body, Loki didn't start calling herself 'Sif' it was still Loki. Same deal here, as far as I'm concerned. No matter what he does, he's always still Loki. Taking on a new set of responsibilities, or the fact that he's changed a lot recently doesn't change that.

As for God of stories, it was acknowledged, but undone in a single caption in Mighty Thor #700. That's why he's in such a funk. He tried to change his role simply by declaring a new one for himself, but it turned out he can't just declare a new role for himself, and it didn't actually do anything, so he feels stuck. That doesn't mean he can't use his knowledge of stories to do things related to that, it's still a part of who he is, but I don't think he actually has a new role or new powers. He seemed to be kinda using parts of it it in some of his appearances, where his primary role in the story was to tell a story within a story, but suspect that it won't go much beyond that, because it was failing to change his role that was important to what's happening now.

I don't think Freyja using dark magic will lead to her being banished forever, or Loki would never be allowed back, and clearly he is. The story seems to be exploring the notion of doing bad things for a greater good, and whether using those methods to win is worth the cost. So i suspect there will be a price to pay, just saying i don't think using dark magic alone is enough to banish her, especially considering it was done in order to stop Malekith, I am sure everyone would understand why she did what she did. And similarly, i think Freyja believed Loki COULD change, but that by doing so it would doom Asgard, because it needed him in the role of villain, so she chose the good of Asgard over the good of her son. She was wrong, and now i think she regrets her choices, but is too stubborn to actually apologise.

[Rosebunse]

Momma like that art lol

What if that Wiccan and Hulkling story is Loki trying to find clothes since his are probably destroyed?

Might be fun...

I do hope we get some fanservice out if this. Of course, Loki might also look like a gnarled corpse, but still. I can work with that.

Freyja seemed to think that as long as Loki was the villain, there were enough Asgardians in their respective roles to keep things as they always had been. Loki is something of a lynchpin of Norse myth, especially his role in the end of the world and thus the cycle of death and rebirth. If you don't have him doing his thing at the end, then it doesn't really matter what everyone else is doing because Ragnorak won't happen.

And honestly, maybe she didn't think Loki had it that bad? 80% of his time before that was spent on silly jokes and games. Sure, he would eventually be tied to a stone by the entrails of his son while hot venom falls into his eyes, but that wasn't all of his existence!

Freyja actually seeming to love Loki as much if not more than her own children by blood just makes the whole thing worse.

Even Odin seemed to realize that it made no sense for Loki to want his intended fate, even if it might be best for him to play along.

[Raye]

Now, to be fair, that was a pinup, his interior art is a lot less detailed, but... still. He's newish, this appears to be his first Marvel project ever, (but he does appear to be a huge fan of Young Avengers and Nightcrawler in particular, but has also recently gone down the Agent of Asgard rabbit hole and seemed to like that) but he's good, i really liked looking through his Twitter and Instagram. Oh he also did confirm that the story has Loki, even though the teaser in last issue just said Wiccan and Hulkling, so yeah, it's them plus Loki, who was presumably left out of the tease because spoilers, and 'some others' so I am hoping for more of the Young Avengers, or something.

The thing about Loki being needed in that role, i mean first of all, Freyja thought that because King Loki was lying to her, but even assuming that's correct, I don't get why it has to be Loki specifically. I said this a few pages back, but if Thor can pass on his role via his hammer, why can't someone else take up Loki's bad guy role? Hasn't Malekith already done that in all but name?

[Rosebunse]

Now, to be fair, that was a pinup, his interior art is a lot less detailed, but... still. He's newish, this appears to be his first Marvel project ever, (but he does appear to be a huge fan of Young Avengers and Nightcrawler in particular, but has also recently gone down the Agent of Asgard rabbit hole and seemed to like that) but he's good, i really liked looking through his Twitter and Instagram. Oh he also did confirm that the story has Loki, even though the teaser in last issue just said Wiccan and Hulkling, so yeah, it's them plus Loki, who was presumably left out of the tease because spoilers, and 'some others' so I am hoping for more of the Young Avengers, or something.

The thing about Loki being needed in that role, i mean first of all, Freyja thought that because King Loki was lying to her, but even assuming that's correct, I don't get why it has to be Loki specifically. I said this a few pages back, but if Thor can pass on his role via his hammer, why can't someone else take up Loki's bad guy role? Hasn't Malekith already done that in all but name?

That is still some really pretty art. I don't mind artists fliflopping on his design a bit, especially when last issue sort of made you question just how his reincarnation works.

But giving someone else Loki's role has it's own dangers. They are still an unknown entity.

And Malekith is an enemy of Asgard, but he hasn't killed Baldur with mistletoe and started the end of the world.

[Raye]

But what I'm saying is, if that role has to be filled, it's going to be a danger regardless of who fills it. If Loki fills that role of villain, HE is going to be a danger, that's the point. Posing a threat to Asgard etc. IS the role, so it's a danger no matter who fills it. And if Loki is less of a threat than someone else filling that role because he is predictable and they know his tactics, or his heart just isn't in it, I mean he's not really filling the role very well, is he? if the role is to be a threat, they should actually be a threat, not just some symbolic gesture of a threat, or it doesn't mean anything. So if this role exists and simply must be filled because fate or whatever, why does it have to be Loki specifically, when someone like Malekith will be more than happy to fill it? Seems to me, everyone is likely going to be swapping around roles a bit. Thor takes Odin's role, Loki takes Thor's role, (that is super weird to type, as an aside. I love him, but i never thought he'd actually go that far.) Malekith takes Loki's, Jane takes Valkyrie's, and I dunno what happens with Freyja and Odin. So the roles are fixed, who fills them is not. And I think they can sort of make those roles their own, too. Thor doesn't have to be exactly like Odin, he can still be Thor and fill the role, as long as he broadly fills the role of ruling Asgard. Loki can fill Thor's role as protector of the realms but still be Loki, and do that his own way.

also, I don't think there is a reincarnation this time. Granted, this is mostly conjecture at this point, I may be proven wrong tomorrow, but condensing some of the points I've made into one thing here, this is how I think it works this time...

- Loki's reincarnation is either no longer a thing for one reason or another, or it only works if he's going to Hel specifically (which he likely always just assumed would be his destination no matter what)
- He's destined for Valhalla, so can't move on. He is dead, but his soul is still attached to his body because it just can't move on without a Valkyrie to guide it.
- So he's stuck in between, kinda undead. Likely everyone else who died in the battle is in the same boat as him, but they may not have forced themselves out of their little afterlife dream like he did.
- so he likely "just" has to heal up his body and his soul may go back to it, good as new, no reincarnation required. If he can still work magic, this should be doable. Hard, but doable.

[Rosebunse]

I mean, if you're Freyja, there's some safety with using Loki. To her credit, she has stopped trying to force it on him.

Good point! The contract he had with Hela was only with Hela. Valhalla is a completely different legal entity! I didn't even think about that!

That being said, I think that this just means that he's in a legal limbo and he can't pass on. Since his body is apparently enchanted or something, I think his soul is just stuck in his body, trying to repair it, which probably wouldn't work because he's stuck in corrosive stomach acid. But I can't wait for this! I need a resolution!

[Raye]

oh, yeah. from Freyja's perspective, it would be safe to bet on Loki rather than an unknown. so from her actions, forcing Loki into that role makes sense, yeah, i agree there.

I was talking more generally. I think that at a certain point, if your bad guy isn't feeling the evil like he used to, and is actually trying to avoid causing harm, like Loki is, then he's not worth much as the bad guy any more, (even if they are still an interesting character) they're just a designated villain, which results in a low stakes story for the hero. Two solutions to this, have them revert back and kick the dog, or move the role on to someone who loves being evil, and you can love to hate, and can really get a reaction from the heroes. The rules of the gods in Marvel tend to mirror the rules of fiction, so I think this makes sense in universe as well. Marvel does kind of have a problem with designated heroes and villains recently, as some heroes have entered murkier and murkier waters to the point where calling them a 'hero' is a bit questionable when you really think about it, and same with some 'villains' like Loki. I am all about gray area characters, so I don't actually mind this, personally. But sometimes you do need a solidly evil bad guy to root against. I don't think the solution is to revert villains that have turned face, though, I think it's to just go with what they've become, and if new villains are needed, make more, or rise someone up from obscurity, like was done with Malekith. Thankfully, this is exactly what they are doing with Thor. (and Venom is also a good example. Carnage was created because Venom had lost his villain cred. Rather than have Venom kick some puppies and make you want to root against him again, they created a remorseless serial killer that would be pretty much impossible to redeem)

I still think it's the Valkyries thing. I mean, yeah, it does result in him being in a limbo state, but I think he'd be headed to Valhalla right now if not for them dying. I think that's why every single one of them had to die in the story, unfortunately. There was really not any reason to kill ALL of them, even if Brunnhilde ended up dying for dramatic purposes, unless the lack of Valkyries performing their duties was somehow relevant to the plot. I don't think Jane becoming a Valkyries necessarily required they ALL die... Dani Moonstar didn't need that, so... sorry Valkyrie fans. this will probably trigger another guilt trip with Loki...

and yep! just like... 5 hours or so now, and hopefully we'll have some more answers. Hope I was in the ballpark with my guesses