Loki Appreciation 2019

[Raye]

Sadly, no Loki. Honestly, really disappointing, and I don't think it is solely due to building myself up for it. But it did feel like the whole Jotunheim thing was handwaved away, after being kind of a cliffhanger last issue... And no explanation about the arm at all, when it would have been so nice to have Loki give it to him, in addition to making more sense.

I think the broad strokes can still work, and suspect we may be seeing more in Thor, possibly including the rez itself (otherwise War Scrolls won't make any sense, unless it takes place prior to the invasion, but then I question why this short story is included in an event anthology at all, if it doesn't actually tie into it in any way. Maybe it could be Billy and Teddy doing a remembrance thing, but that seems an odd choice when we know he won't stay dead for more than a month at absolute most after the issue comes out.) just it can't happen in Jotunheim. And what I said before about thinking there needs to be more done to address what he is going through still stands. Which is why I suspect it kinda has to happen in Thor, since that is kind of the last chance to address that part, building off of last issue, and the Cul part being just one of two stories in the issue. It is the only way they can get the dramatic last minute resurrection they seem to be going for and address what Loki is going through.

But we do know no one is coming to Loki's rescue now, even accidentally, it's all on him, he's got to save himself, there is no other option. And the role shuffling with Thor becoming king of Asgard is looking a lot more likely. Just was wrong about the timing. But it does mean what we said above about getting that moment with Freyja can probably never happen. I mean I am guessing she and Odin will spoilers:

be heading to Valhalla, despite the 'see you in Hel' comment, so they are kind of in the same boat as Loki, so they may meet in the afterlife kinda thing. But there are two problems with that. One, Freyja and Odin died (? Was a little unclear there. It may be Cul saves them in Thor, or something, but... ) in Svartalfheim while Loki is in Midgard, which makes that a lot harder to do, unless something happens after it is all resolved and Jane brings them to Loki (and Thor, I would presume) before taking them to Valhalla, or something... But that brings us to point 2. In the vast majority of cases people can't move on without the guidance of the Valkyrie since they are the only ones who know the way... Unless you happen to be Odin, who also knows the way to Valhalla. Odin can get there without the Valkyries guidance, and can presumably lead Freyja there while he is at it. Which may tie into what happens, he may end up leading the Einherjar into battle, or something, but still.

end of spoilers

[Rosebunse]

But doesn't that still require that Loki be rescued? Especially now, I'm not sure how he would get out of this on his own.

I do agree that the key is either that horn or Odin and Freyja rallying the dead, but thinking on the last Thor issue, I'm still wondering if Loki is really "lost" on his way to Vahalla or if he just isn't being picked up and he's trapped in his body. Odin and Freyja's experience might be different because, yeah, Odin can just help them across.

Now, Thor will be back on Earth and now Laufey is stuck ok Earth, so I'm still wondering if Thor won't free Loki after he kills Laufey, though it won't be because he intends to rescue Loki.

I will say, I think Aaron is setting Thor up to do something drastic because he is isolating him. Thor is being put in a position where he can let loose and get revenge for his arm, his family, his hammer, etc.

Also, Laufey's mouth is still covered in Loki's blood...yuck...

[Rosebunse]

Also, we do get a bit of Freyja talking about Loki in the Giantmen issue. SPOILERS


Freyja gets that team together because she wants Ymir dead as revenge for Loki. Apparently, since he created the Frost Giants, Freyja thinks that killing him would be the only emotionally devastating thing that would effect him.

Now, I think we all can agree that this is sort of cheap. Freyja is part of the reason Loki was even in the position he was in. She was willing to sacrifice him for the greater good of Asgard. Of course, the Odinson family has always had a sort of "we can attack Loki but you can't" policy, so there's that, but still.

[Raye]

I still maintain that Loki never 'required' rescuing, that he is, and always was, perfectly capable of getting himself out of this situation, and it will be a much better story, and better for him as a character, if he did. This just ensures there is no other option but for him to get his own damn self out of there. Or at least makes a rescue situation extremely remote. Everyone thinks he is dead, there is no reason for them to suspect he is still 'alive' in there. And even Freyja's bid to get vengeance for Loki's death hinges on targeting Ymir, not Laufey himself. And that's for a reason, I think, they're saving Laufey's death for Loki. If they were going to go with a rescue situation, well Marvel just walked right past their best opportunity for a rescue without batting an eye, and there must be a reason for that. While I am sure lots of people want Laufey dead, including Thor, I don't think he's like, their number one priority. This is a war, it's a lot bigger than putting a hit on just one of them. Especially since it appears even fighter jets can't take him down, so not like it would be an easy task.


And I think this issue makes clear that Loki only just 'woke up' so not a lot of time has passed, he's got lots of time.

End of Thor 12:


WotR 4:


so only minutes have passed since Loki woke up in Thor, his little afterlife journey apparently took a while. So he's still on track to bust out of there himself, and it can directly follow from the events in Thor 12 to Thor 13 (or wherever he gets his rez) without skipping a beat and still line up. It's just not quite the surrounding circumstances i was hoping for, even if this way does mean he spends less time swimming around in stomach acid than what i was hoping for.

and... there is no 'or' in the Valhalla situation.... Ok. Let me try again... Valhalla requires guidance to get there. Loki explained it himself:



That panel there is foreshadowing. It's explaining the situation so readers know, even if they are new to the Thor comics or mythology, how it works, not just for getting Thor there and back, but it also explains why Loki cant move on once the Valkyries die. If only Odin and the Valkyries know the way, and all the Valkyries and now even Odin are dead... what happens if you die a death worthy of Valhalla? you're stuck. It is impossible to find your way to Valhalla without the Valkyries, that's why they exist, to serve as guides, because they don't want the unworthy to be sneaking in when they don't deserve it. You aren't going anywhere near Valhalla without them showing you the way. So he is lost, and trapped, yes, BECAUSE he isn't being picked up, because all the Valkyries died. It's all of the above. That's what I'm getting at. He is dead as a doornail, but with no Valkyries, he can not complete the journey to Valhalla, so he's still stuck in his (very dead at the moment) body. He may not even realize he has a journey to complete. Hel, I think you just kinda appear there, Valhalla requires an escort. It may not be a literal 'a Valkyrie personally comes to get you' situation, that's not how it was presented with either Jane or Thor, but it is pretty clear that you are at the very least pulled to the Valkyries, and they have to open the gates. Odin can get himself there and guide Freyja while he is at it. He might take a detour to Midgard to get his son, if he can somehow sense Loki's soul, and that could actually be kinda nice... but I also think that's kind of a stretch.

[Snoop Dogg]

Freyja with the absolute unit squad out to get blood for her boy. So soft!

[Raye]

On the one hand, I like how broken up Freyja is about Loki's death, and how she wants some vengeance (even Odin went after Laufey when he heard, surprisingly) it's kinda like 'awww' but on the other, I'm like 'why couldn't you have shown this to his face?' If he had known they did actually consider him their son and loved him, a lot of pain could have been averted on both sides. Though I bet she kinda is thinking that herself right now.

But on that note, been thinking some more on the Odin and Freyja situation. It still may be a bit of a stretch, but I think I would like to see Odin and Freyja taking a stop to visit Loki on their way to Valhalla, (cus come on, that was totally a Valhalla death. and Odin probably gets to cheat there anyway.) and think it could work... even if i am not totally expecting it. Both because it would be the only real chance to get that closure now, which I think Loki in particular needs, and it could be kind of sweet if they all stop posturing and being all critical. If this happens presumably they will be stopping by to take him where he's supposed to go. But we know he won't go with them, or at least will somehow get out of Valhalla if he does. I'd guess that if this happens, they can provide that bit of information he is lacking, tell him he's supposed to be on his way to Valhalla, but the Valkyries died, and that's why he can't move on. with this knowledge I think he'd realize he's maybe not doomed to be the ultimate baddie, and even if he is he can still do some good before that happens, and he'll refuse to go with them and instead work to heal and rez himself, and take out Laufey in the process.

But even without the rez this week, I guess we do have Infinity Watch next week, and War Scrolls and Thor the week after that, I now strongly suspect Thor will pick up from last issue for like half the issue, even if they didn't solicit that part.

[lordozone]

On the one hand, I like how broken up Freyja is about Loki's death, and how she wants some vengeance (even Odin went after Laufey when he heard, surprisingly) it's kinda like 'awww' but on the other, I'm like 'why couldn't you have shown this to his face?' If he had known they did actually consider him their son and loved him, a lot of pain could have been averted on both sides. Though I bet she kinda is thinking that herself right now.

I don't know, for me it's what I love in this family: They sometime hate each other, they can do the pettiest and cruelest things to their own son or brother, but when someone outside their family kill or attack one of them they will do everything to avenge them, even if their life is at stake. As gods, they represent an extremely passionate and radical representation of how most families work, and I love that.

[Raye]

I mean yeah, I get that the drama is what keeps the books going, but still Her being all 'you know i kinda hate you right now' when in reality not so much, made things a lot worse, he probably would have abandoned Laufey long before and actually helped in ways that mattered if he'd felt he would be welcomed. So drama or not, it still was a mistake. And if they did just die... this is likely the last chance they'll have to set things right. (At least for a while. I presume the will be resurrected at some point, everyone does.) Freyja and Odin patched things up, sort of, mostly i think their anger with each other was a lot of posturing, which they dropped when the stakes were high, but still. So, I think they can put it aside for Loki in a situation where they are basically being written out of the books for the foreseeable future, that won't hurt the drama. (and Thor, for that matter but he's not in a position where that could work at the moment) Also, I think the Asgard royal family's particular brand of drama works best if you get the sense that underneath it all they do care for one another, even if they are REALLY bad at showing it most of the time. But to get that sense, they do have to put the drama aside every once in a while.

Though, as I said, not convinced this situation will happen, just saying, if it does, I think it can work.

[lordozone]

I mean yeah, I get that the drama is what keeps the books going, but still Her being all 'you know i kinda hate you right now' when in reality not so much, made things a lot worse, he probably would have abandoned Laufey long before and actually helped in ways that mattered if he'd felt he would be welcomed. So drama or not, it still was a mistake. And if they did just die... this is likely the last chance they'll have to set things right. (At least for a while. I presume the will be resurrected at some point, everyone does.) Freyja and Odin patched things up, sort of, mostly i think their anger with each other was a lot of posturing, which they dropped when the stakes were high, but still. So, I think they can put it aside for Loki in a situation where they are basically being written out of the books for the foreseeable future, that won't hurt the drama. (and Thor, for that matter but he's not in a position where that could work at the moment) Also, I think the Asgard royal family's particular brand of drama works best if you get the sense that underneath it all they do care for one another, even if they are REALLY bad at showing it most of the time. But to get that sense, they do have to put the drama aside every once in a while.

Though, as I said, not convinced this situation will happen, just saying, if it does, I think it can work.

No, for me she really hated him in this moment, like in our families we can hate a brother, sister, father, uncle... more than everyone else. But in a second this same hate can disappear when outsiders attack our family. For me, it's logical. And letting Loki be this black sheep, always distrusted, loathed, and at the same time loved and protected, it's a big part of what make him interesting.

[Raye]

I dunno, when she asked Thor about Loki, right before the whole Hel arc, I think that showed she didn't completely hate him. Mad at him, sure. but not hate.

but yeah, as I think about it, with Odin and Freyja written out (probably) and Loki being a lot less antagonistic towards his brother these days, we may need some new way to stir up drama among the siblings and the rest of the cast. Family is now all the surviving siblings, so Thor, Loki, Balder, Angela, plus the new baby Luassa, plus maybe Cul, depending on what happens with him next issue. He may be the best bet for drama stirrer, but it all depends on the next issue of Thor. Cul may die, he may turn against them, he may come back, he's a wildcard. Last we saw him he was in Svartalfheim spying on the Black Bifrost, so i was kinda expecting him to pop up here, but he was absent, so now I am wondering what happened to him. and Loki will likely still cause drama, just not in the overtly attacking them way, if nothing else he has built up a lot of distrust over the years. Likely he's got some old plots from his bad old days that will come and bite them in the ass at some point too. Loki gets on fairly well with Angela though, not well with Balder, seems like he will be on at least OK terms with Thor, if Thor is trusting him with some kind of mission. But that's it for actual family, i think. You could add some external drama magnets like Enchantress (not that I think they'll want her anywhere near Asgard for the next while, after siding with Malekith, and not in the double agent way Loki did, but you never know) or someone. Or Hela once she's done in Guardians of the Galaxy. The whole Thanos thing, while she is technically married to Karnilla, I mean, that's a big ol drama ball.

[Rosebunse]

Hela would be fun once she gets back to Earth. It's not like she's in love with Karnilla, it's a purely political marriage. Kanrilla is still in love with Baldur and Baldur is in love with her.

Actually, now I want a double date with Hela and Thanos and Karnilla and Baldur.

I feel like what happens next for Thor is going to have a lot to do with what happens with Venom. Mostly because we have that big Carnage event coming up and it seems like something everyone is ready to have fun with.

I think Freyja's relationship with Loki is complicated by the fact that they are so much alike in under Aaron. They are both rather bitter about their stations in life, they use magic, they are held back in Asgardian society because of their feminity, and they both have tried to change their place in Asgard to mixed results. While Loki did sacrifice a child, Freyja was prepared to sacrifice her child to get what she wanted.

I did think that Aaron's thing about Loki trying to reconnect with Laufey was sort of weak and against what had previously been done, but, yeah, Freyja and even Thor sort of drove Loki to it. And Loki is so used to being constantly forgiven or at least protected that he let his guard down.

Also, about Laufey at the Statue of Liberty, I'm not for sure that time hasn't passed. The other Frost Giants aren't there. I think he just likes it as a base of operations. It's sort of a good spot, it's got dramatic effect.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out how much time has passed. In some issues, it seems like only days have passed, while in others seemingly it's been weeks.

[Raye]

Yeah the marriage is a technicality, but I still think there is drama to be had there. the more I think about it, the more potential i see for Hela to fill that drama magnet part of filling the hole Loki left when he turned face. She's right now basically abandoning her duties in Hel to go resurrect Thanos. It may even be that her running off to resurrect her boyfriend may have left Hel vulnerable enough to be conquered despite them repelling Malekith the first time. But as far as the future post WotR goes, I doubt she'd actually take kindly to sharing her throne, and will probably be plotting to overthrow Karnilla in some way to gain full control. With Thanos. And of course, given Loki's connection with Hela, (especially if they go with a more direct reference to the JiM Leah origins) that's going to affect him if she goes into one of her uber-villain phases while he's currently responsible for defending against threats like that since he is wielding Mjolnir. It will have him in the position of fighting against what was at one time his BFF... well, Kid Loki's BFF, but still. It would actually be very similar to how conflicted Thor must have felt when going up against Loki. I am really hoping Donny Cates is the next writer on Thor and all this stuff with Hela in Guardians of the Galaxy and the introduction of Knull and the origin of the Necrosword over in Venom is all leading into his run.

and I am pretty sure they replicated that scene with Laufey in order to indicate the time. A bit of time has passed, it's frozen in WotR and not in Thor, but i really doubt he'd stick around at the Statue of Liberty for hours on end, let alone days, it's just... such a stupid place to make your stand, especially if you are too big to actually fit inside it, and you're so large that you can basically take a few steps in any direction before hitting he water. I still bet that Thor 13 will pick up where the last issue left off with Loki when it gets to his part, and he'll bust out of there as the tides begin turning now the the Black Bifrost is down.

so was catching up on Spider-Man earlier, and there was an interesting maybe Loki cameo.... of him working with the Avengers to stop Kraven and Arcade's little 'hunt animal themed characters' plot. It's a little hard to tell if it is him, or if it is another character who is miscolored, (I mean, it's miscolored no matter who it is, even Loki, where the legs should be black (both of them....) and the collar white, and if some of that hair is intended to be horns, it never got colored in. which is why it's so hard to decide) perhaps a miscolored Dr Strange, it's a little hard to tell if that is meant to be a cape with a collar, (which narrows it down to Strange and Vision, pretty much, and Vision is bald and this character has longish dark hair) or a coat, so.... I dunno, you decide. But there aren't a lot of characters running around in long green coats/capes who can fly and project some kind of energy.


If it is him, the reason it's interesting is more in the fact that he's working with the heroes than anything else, i mean there isn't a lot to go on, he's tiny in the frame, and this is literally the only panel showing him, but still, he's helping to try and bring down the forcefield. it's a bit weird. Spider-Man is not tying into WotR, so it's maybe possible Hunted takes place after WotR, i guess, though it concludes the same month WotR does so that seems weird. but before WotR, Loki working with the heroes would be strange. so it may be an indicator that Loki does join the Avengers after WotR.

[Rosebunse]

I mean, given the situation, they may have called in whoever was in New York at the time. Since Loki is in New York a lot, that would include him. And ain't no one going to not accept help with this. That definitely looks like Loki to me, though, especially with the hair and the figure's skinniness.

I was under the impression that WotR took place after Hunted, but the timeline has been so weird that who knows what notes Nick Spencer might have on this.

Good point about Hela being rather important to Loki. Now, I don't think you can really compare her to how Thor feels about Loki, especially because no matter what myth or story you go with, Loki just isn't that close to her. He has sort of failed her, especially as Ikol when he essentially took her soul mate away from her. And he can never give him back. Even if you go with the version where she is literally his daughter, Loki fails her.

As for Laufey at the Statue of Liberty, even if that is only minutes after Loki wakes up, wouldn't it still be hours before the heroes return to Earth?

[Raye]

What I think it means is just that the end of Thor 12 was actually in the future a little bit, relative to the other books that week, we just didn't realize that at the time. It just means his little Christmas Carol vision lasted longer than it may have first seemed. It makes sense if you consider the Thor series events as primarily being linked to each other, so of course if there is a cliffhanger in 12, it will likely pick up there the next time, even if Loki's part isn't necessarily the first pages in the issue.

And yeah, I know it isn't a one to one comparison to Thor. Nothing would be. But I do think he was close to her... or he was at least close to Leah. That's thousands and thousands of years in Hela's past, but to Loki, that was like, what, a couple years ago? and it's the failing her that causes drama, that was the whole catalyst of Young Avengers. His guilt over what had happened to her, how he had failed her. Failing her doesn't mean he doesn't care. Thor, Freyja and Odin failed Loki, too, and he them, doesn't mean they didn't care.

And yeah, i mean ultimately it is a one panel cameo, it probably doesn't mean much, if anything. To most characters it would be nothing. It's just odd, because of the timing, and how he is working with the Avengers.

[Rosebunse]

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ion-2019/page4

This is a link to the Angela thread, but it has the preview for Asgsrdians of the Galaxy. Looks like there is a plan to save Annabelle, but maybe this could be where we see Loki?