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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Did they have a source for that? Because that makes no sense whatsoever. There was nothing in there saying that was the case, they usually have a disclaimer for books that take place at a time that would put them significantly out of sync with most other books (see the preview for this week's Squirrel Girl for an example) and it makes no sense at all with what we saw in the books. The Avengers team that showed up to try and stop Gamora didn't include Blade and did include Dr Strange, which places it solidly before the current arc of Avengers, because Strange left and was replaced with Blade (at least temporarily) which takes place prior to War of the Realms. Black Panther also talked about the Infinity stuff in the Avengers book in the past tense. He laid out the timeline pretty solidly there, Celestial invasion, Infinity stuff, then Loki dropped off the map. So if he's talking about Loki's involvement in the past tense while simultaneously talking about a coming war... And probably most significantly Asgardians of the Galaxy spun out of the Infinity stuff, Loki specifically said that the horn was created to be used in the War of the Realms, and that the victor of the War would be determined by their actions, they are right now safeguarding the horn so that it is not misused in said war. Asgardians of the Galaxy will also be tying into War of the Realms, so Asgardians of the Galaxy definitely takes place before War of the Realms. so yeah, until I see something official from Marvel I am not buying that the Infinity stuff takes place after War of the Realms. And even if Marvel made an official statement, that makes no damn sense.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-11-2019 at 10:56 PM.

  2. #32
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    He did not. Honestly, they were going over the timeline and between all the different events, it is such a mess that it makes my brain hurt.

    My only theory is that the X-Office and the other creative teams aren't in contact and the editors are just doing their best.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    the timeline isn't complicated, imo, at least as far as the Thor, Infinity and Avenegers stuff goes. It is pretty much as Black Panther said.

    -Hel arc of Thor
    -Celestial invasion
    -Wolverine rescues Loki
    -Infinity stuff
    -Asgardians of the Galaxy first arc (concurrently with the infinity stuff)
    -Second arc of Avengers onward
    -Events in Thor since Hel
    -Guardians of the Galaxy (may end up being relevant, cus Hela and Beta Ray Bill)
    -Asgardians of the Galaxy second arc

    last 3 or 4 items happen more or less concurrently with each other

    It lines up pretty well, actually, even if the Celestial thing was difficult to pinpoint as it was happening, in hindsight it fits. Mainly because Loki is able to be two places at once due to "Kid Loki". I've fallen way behind on X-Men so not sure how that fits in, but if it doesn't fit I'm placing that on X-editorial screwing up, and we just kinda have to roll with that rather than moving around the core pieces to make the X-stuff fit, because I consider that sort of extra to the core timeline which is found in Avengers and Thor. But I think there, the key thing is as we speculated on the previous page, there has to be two Wolverines, the one with the Phoenix Force, the one that rescued Loki and stole the Space Gem from him before that, is most likely from the future.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-11-2019 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    the timeline isn't complicated, imo, at least as far as the Thor, Infinity and Avenegers stuff goes. It is pretty much as Black Panther said.

    -Hel arc of Thor
    -Celestial invasion
    -Wolverine rescues Loki
    -Infinity stuff
    -Asgardians of the Galaxy first arc (concurrently with the infinity stuff)
    -Second arc of Avengers onward
    -Events in Thor since Hel
    -Guardians of the Galaxy (may end up being relevant, cus Hela)
    -Asgardians of the Glaxy second arc

    last 3 or 4 items happen more or less concurrently with each other

    It lines up pretty well, actually, even if the Celestial thing was difficult to pinpoint as it was happening, in hindsight it fits. Mainly because Loki is able to be two places at once due to "Kid Loki". I've fallen way behind on X-Men so not sure how that fits in, but if it doesn't fit I'm placing that on X-editorial screwing up, and consider that sort of extra to the core timeline which is found in Avengers and Thor. But I think there, the key thing is as we speculated on the previous page, there has to be two Wolverines, the one with the Phoenix Force, the one that rescued Loki and stole the Space Gem from him before that, is most likely from the future.
    But that's what I meant. Everything is fine until you try and add in the X-Men books. Then it's a mess.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So the X-offices fucked up and we can ignore them, no need to rejigger things in the core books, or do drastic things like move the Infinity stuff to after War of the Realms concludes, to force them to comply. Avengers, Thor and the main War of the Realms book once it starts are the key thing, they are steering the ship here, other books have to follow their lead, not the other way around, that's just the way it is. If things don't fit with what those 3 books say is the timeline, that's just someone fucking up and that's the end of it. If someone screwed up it will never fit, so there is no point in trying.

    that being said, this is not the first time it's become clear that different editorial teams are not sharing enough information about events that multiple books tie into, and that really needs to be addressed.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-11-2019 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #36
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    X-Office forks ups are as common as Loki wearing green these days.
    Dance games are my divine punishment from the Lord. May my furnace be forever fueled.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Sadly true. I got into Marvel via the X-books, right as Morrison and Casey came aboard, and went back and read some of the past stories, and there have definitely been things I have enjoyed since then, I like the X-Men. but it's also very chaotic, like they keep changing their minds about things midway through something, and don't communicate with the rest of the editors very well at all... And in this case, i think it will probably just be best to kind of pretend they aren't really involved, since, though I don't know the specifics, I am 3 or 4 months behind on the X-books at the moment, it sounds like another case of editorial miscommunication screwing everything up, so it won't make sense. I just don't see the point of making things more complicated than they need to be because one aspect is not playing nice with the other parts that are playing nice with each other. Just.... acknowledge that part is not working well with the continuity, and either ignore it or roll with it.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-12-2019 at 12:41 AM.

  8. #38
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    The thing is, I feel like the actual books are in a really interesting place right now, but it just feels like there are two teams right now-the X-Office and Team Aaron, as it seems like most Marvel writers are working with Aaron on his WotR. So it feels like both groups are doing a great job, editorial just isn't working to create cohesive narrative.

    Marvel isn't DC and more should be done to correct this.

    Also, what stories do you guys want about Loki or Asgard after this is over?

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah, individual books are often quite good, I've liked lots of X-runs quite a bit, it's just that they don't seem to fit in to the rest of the MU very well sometimes. It's often easier to think of the X-books happening in their own universe, and this is kind of another example of that. And yeah, that's down to editorial, not the writers. The writers can write brilliantly, but if they are given poor information about an event or something, (or vice versa, where the editors of the X-books aren't giving enough information to the main architects of the event) it won't fit together. Like, I gave Infinity whatever a lot of flak, but it does at least seem to tie in to the War of the Realms in a way that makes sense, but what's weird there is that it's the same editor as Uncanny X-Men, so i dunno if Duggan just did the legwork himself, talked to Aaron directly or something, to make it tie in properly or what.

    Buy yeah, this is the Loki thread, that line of discussion is getting way off topic. It's a bit hard to say what I'd like after War of the Realms considering we don't yet know what will happen during the event, but if the event goes as I hope it will, with Loki helping out the goo guys, albeit with highly unconventional means, I kinda just hope they just build off that, with more characters figuring out what hie did, what his motivations were seeing how they react to that, but mostly Thor. And just see him go further down that path. I'd like to see him make more positive connections, like with Squirrel girl kinda thing, too. I want more frenemy shenanigans with Dr Strange.

  10. #40
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    I want a slice if life book with Loki. Just him hanging out with people and doing stuff. Also, a little more Lady Loki.

    And a love interest, because why not?

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I think i mentioned in the old thread that I think a romantic interest could make a lot of sense with the story, IF we go with the assumption that Aaron read that little bit of the myths that mentioned Loki's mortal family, but was never really expanded upon (possibly some lost stories there, and we get references to them on occasion, but not the stories themselves, probably a bunch of those that got lost forever) and is considering that canon. that he began considering mortals beneath caring about because they were short lived, where Thor took the opposite message in a similar situation. But right now that's just my headcanon. It could still kinda work without that, tho, it just wouldn't pack as much punch to have Loki going from considering mortal life worthless to actually caring for mortals, as it would to have him stop caring about mortals because he lost a mortal family, and then learning to care for mortals again much later. Especially since we already know he does care for mortals now, but the ones he cares about are all just friends, Verity, Nancy, Squirrel Girl (kinda) the Young Avengers... Having a romantic attachment to a mortal would show that he really has changed his mind about how he feels about mortals after the first time they all died on him. Anyway, yeah, rambly way of saying i think a love interest could work, but it needs to be a mortal. Any mortal will do, really, but one who is a superhero could be especially fun, super-couples are always fun because they can do their adventuring together.

    So, Loki was in Thor today. It didn't reveal too much new in regards to Laufey, more of the same, i think it was mostly just there to contrast with the Thor and Odin stuff. But Malekith showed up and it both hinted again that Loki's got plans for him, and also that Malekith's got plans for Loki, Malekith clearly doesn't trust him. Which isn't a surprise, I am kind of surprised they are still on speaking terms at all, honestly, after the whole Hel thing. He ordered some of his minions to kill Loki, and to bring his head to his father, though it's unclear if he meant Laufey or Odin. But the scene did also show Loki refusing to kill a giant after he had turned into an enormous frog, (though Laufey then killed him, but still) so it appears there are limits to what Loki is willing to do in order to maintain his cover, even if it is some random frost giant who had insulted him, and was pretty much doomed to die no matter what.

    I hope Loki shows up in next issue as well, because Lee Garbett is drawing it, it would be nice to see him drawing Loki again.

    And Loki was not in Squirrel Girl, but he was mentioned a few times, and featured in a not so nice doodle, because Thor was in it. Facing a Riddler knockoff, which is not exactly Thor's strong suit, and I am betting Doreen kinda wished she had his brother there instead. I mean if you need someone good at trivia, when it comes to choosing between Thor and Loki, well.... I mean... Loki's the clear choice there. Apparently, Loki recently messed with Thor's social media accounts, and Thor doesn't know how to change them back. Or how to log in, really.

    *edited to add - oh yeah, Malekith further solidified the timeline this issue, apparently the events of Avengers and the Infinity stones and all spanned a 'few weeks' but it's absolutely clear based on his dialogue that the Infinity stuff has already happened.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-13-2019 at 05:31 AM.

  12. #42
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    I imagine that Loki might let it look like he was killed by the Dark Elves to fool Malekith. Or Loki might actually have bitten off more than he can chew, especially if he has to deal with Laufey and Malekith.

    Interesting that we also get a panel that shows Loki and which references the Norn stones.

    I still think that Laufey is Loki's father, but I wonder if Laufey made some deal to get a son and that's where Loki comes from. Like if Loki was literally created by the stones.

  13. #43
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    There is an up-coming thor issue about Loki spending time with "dear old deadly dad" but I'm curious if its referring to Odin or Laufey. The cover shows Laufey which is honestly more evidence towards Odin because the covers often are misleading.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    It didn't say the Norn Stones, just the Norns. As in the Fates. I think it was just saying that fate had been unkind to Loki, and was referring to his frequent attempts of late to break free of a fate that others had crafted for him, his desire to control his own fate.

    I still don't think anything but Odin being his father would mean much of anything to Loki, especially in the light of this issue. It just makes story sense, with how Aaron is playing things here. I mean, say he's a magical creation.... so? what does it mean for him? how does it change his life? learning he was a magical creation won't grant him new abilities, or change his life in any significant way. It may explain some things, i guess, but... enh. It has to mean something to him, have an impact on his life, or it is a worthless revelation. Odin accomplishes that better than most things, because of what being Odin's son would represent to Loki. He wants to be an Asgardian, he wants a more solid connection to his chosen family, to his home. I mean Laufey repeatedly points out he's shit at being a Jotunn, he doesn't act like he should, he doesn't look like them, (even though he probably could, if he wanted. He's a shapeshifter. But he still chooses not to, even though it would be a benefit to him in this situation to get all blue and frosty) he doesn't think like them, the magic he uses and is so good with is Asgardian in origin. He's Asgardian (or, more specifically, Aesir) in every way except by blood. Having the All-Father's blood in his veins would mean he belongs with them even if they don't want him. It would also create this sort of ironic, bitter circle or resentful hate mixed with a desire for acceptance. Thor this issue thoroughly disowned Odin, he wants nothing to do with him, nearly killed him, but Odin wants to be a good father to Thor, but just can't seem to manage it, is absolutely horrible at it, he's constantly cruel, belittling, or uncaring. Loki, on the other hand, wants to be Odin's son rather than Laufey's, not because Odin is a good father, but because of what that would represent, what it would say he is, and represent as a sign of acceptance from his chosen family.... but Odin hates Loki and wants nothing to do with him. Something like the Norn stones would lack that sort of resonance, and hasn't been hinted at, while his birth mother possibly having had an affair has been at least vaguely hinted at.

    I definitley think that solicit is misleading, but honestly I had not considered Odin as being the father the text was referring to, but that could make some sense, for sure. The cover was definitely deceptive, I mean, just look at how Laufey treated him this issue, how do you get from here to gleefully riding on his shoulders as he attacks everyone?
    Last edited by Raye; 02-13-2019 at 11:28 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by marge_23 View Post
    There is an up-coming thor issue about Loki spending time with "dear old deadly dad" but I'm curious if its referring to Odin or Laufey. The cover shows Laufey which is honestly more evidence towards Odin because the covers often are misleading.
    Excellent point. And we have this issue implying that I'd Malekith does manage to kill or harm Loki, he's going to use it to demoralize Odin rather than Laufey.

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