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  1. #466
    Amazing Member Regular man's Avatar
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    Ymir in the volume of the giants of WoR should be killed, and what if Loki is building that snowman is taking the place of Ymir as god of the giants ??? Dont joke about this so much ahhahhah
    poor Loki, trying to be forgiven by all, wiccan and hulkling that cry at seeing Loki die was a touching scene, this showed that Loki has matured and some people saw it and praised him for this, I hope the young avengers leave this quest year, with him part of the team, it would be nice to see Loki with his friends ...
    Last edited by Regular man; 05-31-2019 at 11:11 PM.

  2. #467
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    What if the Frost Giants go extinct and Loki decides to rebuild the race?

  3. #468
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I'm not sure you can really recreate the primordial proginator of an entire race, nor am i sure why he'd want to. It may be that Ymir has to be removed along with Laufey in order to clear the way for Loki to take the throne uncontested, though. But if Ymir has been around all this time, unlike in the myths where he was killed by Odin and his two brothers, (.... oh. wait. that may be why Balder had to be brought back. So they can symbolically start over with Thor in Odin's place, and they need 3 brothers for that. I mean i guess they could have just gone for 'siblings' and included Angela, but she wasn't raised in Asgard, so... hmm.... though of course the inclusion of Cul in the comics complicates things, so maybe Angela could still fit in there) i don't know how Laufey or Skrymir or any of the other giants who have ruled Jotunheim have ruled, but... hey, never know, maybe they need Ymir's approval or something. also, i doubt the frost giants go extinct, that would imply complete genocide on the part of the heroes, and I can't see them doing that. If it is some kind of snow/ice golem, I suspect he's not going to be much more than a servant.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-01-2019 at 03:45 PM.

  4. #469
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    I figure that if Ymir is alive, then he's likely so old that he saw no choice but to let others rule in his stead. Considering his role in the myths, he also might prefer to just let everyone rule themselves and leave him the fuck alone.

    After all the Frost Giant in this one event alone, I'm not sure how many are supposed to be left.

  5. #470
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I mean their numbers will be lessened, for sure, but for a complete extinction, there would have to be a concerted effort to track down and kill every last one, even the children, and other giants not participating in the war. If the last issue of Thor showed us anything, it's that we can't paint an entire race as all evil, even if the leaders and their armies do horrible shit. It would be evil to exterminate them, even if the majority of the frost giants are assholes. Or, some kind of magic thing like happened in Game of Thrones with the White Walkers when the Night King died, but with Ymir or something. Which would presumably hit Loki and Skurge as well, maybe more frost giants and half-giants that I am unaware of, as well as the before mentioned innocents. It also doesn't fit with established lore, but just thinking of how they could be wiped out to the very last one, save Loki. So yeah, they'll take a hit for sure, but extinction... i doubt it.

    I think Loki will be tasked with making sure they don't go to war against the other realms again, more than anything. Which is something that would actually display a good bit of trust in him, come to think of it. Or just profound stupidity. "I'm going to put you in charge of the frost giants, who you have used to attack Asgard on a number of occasions in the past, and I want you to make sure they don't attack Asgard or Midgard etc. again." so yeah, either Thor's extending Loki a lot of trust, or he's just stupid.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-01-2019 at 09:35 PM.

  6. #471
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So I have been mulling over what we know of the solo the past day or so, and thought it may be helpful to consolidate the various solicits and the interview into a unified thing, rather than speculating on all the individual bits in isolation, given the details released so far.

    so here's the solicits for issue 1, both the revised solicit, and the one from the diamond solicits:

    Subscription:
    "You can never keep a good God down, and that is doubly true for the God of lies! After his apparent demise in the pages of The War Of The Realms, Loki has learned a valuable lesson – don’t get caught! While Thor entrusts Loki with a valuable mission that no one else could possibly handle, Loki has a trick up his sleeve and nobody is safe! Writer Daniel Kibblesmith explores the depths of the Marvel Universe with artist Oscar Bazaldua in the pages of Loki!"

    Issue 1:
    "EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HERO! ALL-NEW ONGOING SERIES! After dying a grisly death in THE WAR OF THE REALMS, Loki learned a valuable lesson in warmongering: Don't get caught. But now he has a whole new set of responsibilities - and his brother Thor is not about to let him walk away from them this time." (and of course, on the cover Loki is holding Mjolnir)

    Issue 2:
    "ESCAPE FROM STARK UNLIMITED! Restless with his new duties after the War of the Realms, Loki seeks out the advice of the closest thing Earth has to a king - TONY STARK, THE INVINCIBLE IRON MAN! - Close enough, right? But it turns out old Shell-head isn't happy to see Loki on account of all that stuff he did. Now the God of Mischief/Stories/Evil/Chaos has to outsmart the cleverest man in Midgard or die (again) trying. Meanwhile, could Thor be hatching a mischievous plot of his own? "

    And the interview: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4318455
    I think the most relevant bits from that which relate to what the series will be the questions of Loki's new status quo, and how he will react to this new status quo, when he is historically defined by rebellion, plus the creation of this Ice Man inspired character.

    And the recent tweet where he says Loki 'builds a snowman' in issue 1, and goes to Iron Man's place and 'gets yelled at' in issue 2.

    So, putting that all together, rather than just speculating about the individual bits in isolation... It seems to me that Jotunheim is definitely looking very likely, there are also a number of hints pointing to Loki being a king. It seems likely that after war of the Realms, Laufey is killed, and Loki is tasked with ruling over Jotunheim, maybe somehow infiltrating it, but the 'king' hints keep piling up, so i do think he's king of Jotunheim. He's given this mission, or a mission that relies on this position, directly by Thor, according the the revised solicit from the subscription email. Combined with what happened to Freyja, Odin and Cul, it seems to be a passing of the torch moment, where the siblings all have to step up and take on new responsibilities to keep things going, and Thor ends up in charge, filling Odin's old role. I've said before that it seems like Loki is taking Thor's role, and Mjolnir definitely points in that direction, the Jotunheim thing does not. So while there may be ASPECTS of Thor's role there, really i think this is just Loki taking on a new role that's more jut a continuation of his own story. But he is consistently referred to as a 'hero', and Kibblesmith said his quest for redemption would be an ongoing thing. So while he may be tempted to abuse his position, I feel he will resist the urge, and it sounds like he probably comes out of WotR with a Big Damn Hero moment. But at the same time, it feels like he's feeling restricted or finds the new duties to consume too much of his attention, and may want to get out of it. Or at least find a way to fulfill his duties, and also do his own thing. (hence making this 'snowman' and seeking out Iron Man's advice, since he manages to run a successful tech empire and also have a life) And Thor wants to make sure he sticks with his new responsibilities, possibly to the point of forcing the issue or trying to trick Loki (good luck with that) into sticking with it.

    Getting into pure speculation for a second, trying to look at this from their respective perspectives, I think I can kinda see where both are coming from. Loki could see being stuck in Jotunheim with a bunch of Frost giants which he is nothing at all like as little more than punishment, rather than being entrusted with an important job to do, especially if he has no intention of using the Frost Giants as like, an army to destroy Asgard, or whatever, so what's he really getting out of this? A frozen throne ruling over a people he can't relate to, and who hate him, even if he is technically one of them. Maybe Thor sees it that way as well, maybe being stuck in a frozen wasteland away from everyone else is intended to be the price Loki has to pay for his past misdeeds. On the other, it may be that Thor just sees this as an important job that needs doing, and that giving this task to Loki is showing him a level of trust, and Loki abandoning those duties would be betraying his trust. Or maybe a bit of both.

    I mean, if it were me, I would be doing some exploration of the idea that the best ruler is the one who wants the position the least, as we saw pushed heavily recently with Game of Thrones. Sure, someone who is willing to go to war for the chance to sit in the fancy chair is probably more likely to end up a tyrant, and that is a big part of why Loki as king of Asgard was never a good idea until recently. Ironically, now that he doesn't want the throne, he' probably would be better suited to it than before. But... is it really the best idea to give it to someone who really doesn't want it? Who would rather be doing pretty much anything else? I dunno about that. (and to be fair, i think Loki likely wants the throne of Jotunheim a good bit less than the throne of Asgard, but still) But there's just not enough there to say if it will be going anywhere near this point, though Kibblesmith does watch GoT, judging by his twitter, but the series would have been in the works, pitched at the very least, before the final season began.

    As for Iron Man... i went looking through the thread looking for the revised solicit from the subscription email and that interview, and realize now that I had repeatedly made parallels between Loki and Iron Man, long before the solicit for issue 2 hit. weird. Guess i was on the same page as Kibblesmith there, in a way. Just goes to show how similar they are, really, and why pitting them against each other (though maybe with an eye towards teaming up in the future?) works, same as with Dr Strange. I think part of the reason Doom and now Loki have been drawn to Iron Man may be that they saw him as being not so different from them. If Iron Man is a good guy (a few unfortunate decisions aside) and Loki isn't that far off from Iron Man right now... it shows that he can at least be a similar type of hero as Tony is. I mean yes, there are some definite differences between them, but of all the Marvel heroes, I think Iron Man and Dr Strange are the most similar to Loki. We've already seen what happens with Dr Strange, now to see what happens with Iron Man. And while Iron Man is definitely a flawed hero, he is still considered a hero. So he may not be the most ideal role model, since he (and Strange) has definitely done some fucked up things over the years, but it's probably the role model that is most within reach, and the most understandable to someone like Loki. If Loki tries to emulate someone like Thor or Cap, he's just going to fail, or he'd probably lose himself even if he succeeded. But Iron Man? that's totally doable. Explore that line that says Tony is a hero while Loki is a villain, when they are actually so very similar. It also kinda says to me that the Ice Man type character is likely going to end up as Loki's FRIDAY, intended to take care of day to day details he doesn't particularly care about, and allow him to go take a trip to Midgard without technically neglecting his duties. It would push those parallels even further. It also fits the 'trick up his sleeve' thing, creating an ice golem to take care of his duties for him could definitely fit that, especially if it has the potential to go horribly wrong somehow.

    I hope that after issue 2, Loki and Tony come to an understanding and end up working together. Maybe Tony could see what happened with Doom as a failing on his part (even tho that was AI Tony, and real Tony just kinda woke up and was all like 'what the hell is this thing with Doom?') after Doom went heel again, and he could see this as a way to do things right with Loki. But I think that once Tony gets over Loki's dark past, they could actually work pretty well together.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-04-2019 at 01:04 AM.

  7. #472
    Spectacular Member A Silver Quickly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post

    Getting into pure speculation for a second, trying to look at this from their respective perspectives, I think I can kinda see where both are coming from. Loki could see being stuck in Jotunheim with a bunch of Frost giants which he is nothing at all like as little more than punishment, rather than being entrusted with an important job to do, especially if he has no intention of using the Frost Giants as like, an army to destroy Asgard, or whatever, so what's he really getting out of this? A frozen throne ruling over a people he can't relate to, and who hate him, even if he is technically one of them. Maybe Thor sees it that way as well, maybe being stuck in a frozen wasteland away from everyone else is intended to be the price Loki has to pay for his past misdeeds. On the other, it may be that Thor just sees this as an important job that needs doing, and that giving this task to Loki is showing him a level of trust, and Loki abandoning those duties would be betraying his trust. Or maybe a bit of both.
    This bit made me think of how neat it would be if Loki actually does kind of become Thor: royalty of a far-off realm who constantly slightly shirks his duties at home to go gallivanting around with a bunch of Midgardians. Sure, he would be a hero and doing good (maybe) but he would also be letting his royal and ruling duties slide.

    If Thor has slid into Odin's position and is finding himself stuck at home more often, he could resent that (but maybe not notice it) and get into the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do kind of mindset. It could be really fun. Is Thor taking Loki under his wing or being jealous of Loki's ability to be a Midgardian hero? Both? And is Loki up to either of the jobs, let alone both?

  8. #473
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So, no resurrection today buuuuttt... we may know now how he gets resurrected, and it may be closer to our first thoughts than I thought. spoilers:
    First of all, it shows a page of Iron Man and some dwarves in armor of his design along with the Fantastic Four fighting Laufey. but later, in a caption Thor senses that Laufey will soon be the last Frost Giant in Manhattan, so they presumably won't kill him, but his army will be pretty much defeated. The bigger part is that Malekith has set a trap for Thor. Turns out Odin and Freyja are NOT dead, but they are being held hostage by Malekith at Stonehenge. He has erected a magical forcefield that only Thor can cross, and he's goading Thor via some magic communication spell to come rescue them. Though of course he's got an army on the other side of that forcefield, which is probably too much for Thor alone to face, especially since he would also be facing Malekith himself, who is still wielding his new Venom sword, and has presumably set assorted magical traps. Ultimate Mjolnir, though shattered, calls out to Jane, and she picks it up against Heimdall's protests. She says, as she picks it up, that there must always be a Thor, and sometimes there must be more than one, and as she picks up the largest piece of the hammer, other fragments fly out. It is not quite clear if the fragments will simply re-form the hammer, or if they are flying out to find the worthy, but if more than one Thor is needed, then Loki could be one of them, based on the cover for his solo. It's not my preferred resolution, but... I'll take it, and a lot will sort of depend on how it's handled, as well. The last page was not terribly clear, it was more a hint of what is to come rather than a real explanation. I am not sure if it will be due to fragments from War Mjolnir, (as mentioned it may be that the hammer is simply re-forming) and the hammer Loki has on the cover is classic Mjolnir. So it may be that Mjolnir in the sun, where Thor is, is the one that flies out to find an additional worthy person, apparently Loki, of all people. Thor himself doesn't need to be carrying a hammer to pass the field, so it becomes in his best interest to share his power with someone else so that an additional 'Thor' can enter the force field, rather than claim it himself. So it may be that it are three Thors from the present, Thor himself, Jane with War Mjolnir, and Loki with classic Mjolnir, plus some time travel shenanigans bringing in King Thor and viking era Thor, based on the cover from next issue.
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by A Silver Quickly View Post
    This bit made me think of how neat it would be if Loki actually does kind of become Thor: royalty of a far-off realm who constantly slightly shirks his duties at home to go gallivanting around with a bunch of Midgardians. Sure, he would be a hero and doing good (maybe) but he would also be letting his royal and ruling duties slide.

    If Thor has slid into Odin's position and is finding himself stuck at home more often, he could resent that (but maybe not notice it) and get into the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do kind of mindset. It could be really fun. Is Thor taking Loki under his wing or being jealous of Loki's ability to be a Midgardian hero? Both? And is Loki up to either of the jobs, let alone both?
    That's a good way of looking at it, I hadn't looked at it quite that way. He may still end up taking on more of Thor's old role that way, even if it includes him coming into conflict with the new All-Father, like Thor did so many times in the past. though this past issue of WotR threw a bit of a kink into things.

  9. #474
    Amazing Member Regular man's Avatar
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    WoR #5 .... where is my Loki?

  10. #475
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    Next issue's Thorgy would definitely be sweeter if our boy pulled up in the Axis costume with everyone's favorite croquet mallet!
    end of spoilers
    I spend three hours a night alone playing dance games.

  11. #476
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I am a little torn on this. The covers for his solo don't show any sort of costume change, and I kinda like that because I like the idea that Loki is just Loki no matter what, and he's just gonna do him. I think that's kind of an essential part of his character.... but on the other, I mean, we already know that for people not named Thor, picking up the hammer comes with a transformation most of the time. And when he picked up Mjolnir in Agent of Asgard and had the whole transformation thing, I can't deny that was kinda awesome. So maybe the first time he picks it up, I will accept a badass transformation, but then he sticks with his normal clothes after that.

    ps. I am also glad Odin and Freyja are not dead, even if i am not exactly clear on HOW that is the case, an it throws a kink into the whole 'all the siblings have to step up and fill the hole left' thing, but it means Freyja can be all happy when Loki comes with his brother to save her. i hope it's super sweet.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-06-2019 at 12:06 AM.

  12. #477
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    I am happy with Loki keeping his normal clothing. It is simple and quite iconic. I mean, the AXIS outfit was cool, but that still wasn't really "Loki."

    He was under a spell and couldn't hold it once things went to normal.

    But I'm confused. Could he be getting the real hammer or the Ultimate one?

  13. #478
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    That he was under a spell only changes the validity of his worthyness in terms of what it means to how people see him afterwards, but it doesn't change the fact that he was worthy for a little while, and Mjolnir changed his clothes when he picked it up. But I do agree that he wouldn't feel right if he went around like that all the time. But I will be ok with this one issue.

    Not quite sure yet, since the page was not really clear. Jane was lifting Ultimate Mjolnir, and there were chunks of it flying up, but it wasn't entirely clear if it was a case of chunks of the hammer being enough to empower people, (this is after all how Throg works) and they were flying out to find new "Thors" or if they were reassembling the hammer. But if I had to guess, it was probably reassembling. And then next issue, Thor will see something that will lead him to being worthy again, but also being able to see that it's in his best interest if he gives the hammer to someone else, so there can be more "Thors" inside the forcefield. It results in fewer "Thors" being able to enter the forcefield if only the two hammers are in play, but also keeps being chosen more special. And with the latter scenario, it may be possible to use Throg and Thunderstrike as well, so they probably don't need dozens of Thors empowered by fragments anyway. But on the other hand, there was that tease way back in God of Thunder about Thor being a "Cosmic god cop"from a base inside the sun, so.... That may require more than just the two hammers, if it was referring to this moment, and him being a Cosmic cop and this "order" are the same thing, and how many of those actually end up happening (not enough issues left for them all to happen) .

    As for why the hammer goes to Loki, my guess is that either Thor sees something in his visions, and does it deliberately in order to save him, or its more accidental where he either sends it out to find someone all on it's own, or, not realizing Loki is still kinda-sorta alive, sends it to his "brother" thinking of Balder, but it goes to Loki instead. (omg, poor Balder in this scenario! Poor guy just can't win. Passed over for his technically dead adopted brother who had previously murdered him. Ouch.) It may also be that coincidentally Loki escapes on his own shortly before Mjolnir is sent on its way, and that is the thing that makes him worthy, and draws the hammer to him, when Thor sends it in this scenario.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-06-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  14. #479
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    (omg, poor Balder in this scenario! Poor guy just can't win. Passed over for his technically dead adopted brother who had previously murdered him. Ouch.)
    Ever since I posted this, it's been eating at my brain. This one stray thought caused a bit of an epiphany that just kept going. It got me thinking... if Thor is taking on an Odin like role, setting things up for King Thor in the future, and Loki is taking on a Thor like role as his face turn reaches full on good guy status... what if... Balder is taking on Loki's place in things as an antagonist? hear me out, it makes sense, even tho Balder is a sweetie.

    Try to think of this situation from Balder's perspective, especially if it's either the scenario where Thor sends the hammer to Loki specifically, or he sends it to an unspecified "brother" thinking Balder is the only one he has left, and the hammer chooses Loki instead. Loki's whole deal started out of jealousy, and thinking Thor, and Balder as well, didn't deserve all he had been given. So now put yourself in Balder's shoes, as he watches what was possibly intended for him go to the black sheep of the family, his adopted brother who had previously murdered him. Would he honestly think Loki was deserving of Mjolnir, and being granted rulership of an entire realm? (even if Loki's not so enthused about the Jotunheim bit) Isn't it likely that Balder would think Loki was not deserving of what he was given? That he might try and convince Thor (and Odin and Freyja, if they're still in the picture, though it sounds like Thor is calling the shots) to take these things away from Loki? Maybe even plot to overthrow Loki and take back Mjolnir should trying to convince Thor/Odin/Freyja fail? He begins to sound like early Loki, even if his intentions are pure, right? It could kind of snowball from there, just like it did with Loki. There has also been some hints floating around recently that Balder feels like he's kind of become a third wheel to the Thor and Loki show, which i could see breeding some resentment in him. Back in the day, he was the most beloved of all the gods, so beloved that Freyja tried to convince the entire world to let no harm ever come to him... which Loki resented and of course we know that ended poorly. And now he's back from the dead (again) and his special position has faded, and he's now on a much lower rung of the hierarchy in terms of importance. In this week's JIM, he seemed pretty bummed that Thori, a TALKING DOG, had to fill everyone in on what Luassa's deal was because he was so out of the loop, no one is telling him important things, he's an afterthought. Put it all together, and you have the seed of a new Loki. He may have good intentions, and think he's in the right, but... Loki probably thought that too, in the beginning.

    There is also some possible foreshadowing for this. There have been a couple hints dropped about how the world went to shit in the King Thor future, but the wording of them has always struck me as a bit odd. there was on in god of Thunder where King Thor tells present day Thor to "kill your bastard brother" and then, more recently Phoenix Wolverine says that the Earth was "turned to ash by your brother" Most people took these things to mean Loki, especially since we have Loki at the end of time with the Necrosword and all. but... it's always struck me as odd that they never mentioned Loki by name, it's always some variation on "Thor's brother"

    Also, in regards to how this affects Loki specifically, if there is this new brotherly rivalry with Loki in Thor's place and Balder in Loki's, and they end up fighting, and Loki has the opportunity to kill Balder in what could be seen as a justifiable way, since he would be on the defensive this time, but doesn't take it, that would show massive character growth for Loki from the days when he killed Balder out of jealousy (combined with for the lulz). Plus it is probably the best way to give Loki some insight into the hell he had put Thor through all these years, and make him understand the complex feelings Thor had about the situation.

    so yeah, I don't know if they are going to go this way, but I think it would make sense.
    Last edited by Raye; 06-07-2019 at 12:56 AM.

  15. #480
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I had thoughts of Balder turning heel before Aaron brought him back. He did enjoy driving the Hell Charger a biiiit too much.
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