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  1. #46
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    I wasn't expecting Loki in Thor today (though, in retrospect, the compare and contrast with Laufey and Odin made sense). I'd say Loki and Thor need to have a beer together, but they're not on good terms, either Both of them had such a horrible interaction with their (presumed?) bio-dads, with both of them basically disowning their respective sons.

    I was happy, then face-palmed, then happy again about Loki and the frog. Like, yay for not killing someone! And then I immediately thought, wow, Loki, you are a terrible deep cover agent. That is where you choose to blow your cover? Really ? From a story standpoint, however, it really emphasizes where Loki is at--in fact, this issue saw him refuse to murder someone despite the consequences (getting kicked out of Jotunheim and thus Sanctuary), then pretty much declare war on Malekith.

    I'm pretty sure he's now out of Malekith's club. I mean, that's what I would normally interpret ordering an assassination as. I'm not worried about Loki -- as far as I could see, those were just dark elf mooks, no one said they were anything special. So, unless I missed something, I think Malekith is seriously underestimating Loki.

    We've seen a lot of solicits about Thor being trapped in Jotunheim (and heroes having to go rescue him), and I really hope Loki's part of that, especially if the father referenced in that solicit is Laufey. From a story standpoint, this might be difficult (not invalidating the team going to rescue Thor), but if he manages to get Thor free and they're fighting all of Jotunheim, they could still use backup. Either that or he's in NYC, but I think Jotunheim is more likely. Maybe? That is basically the only issue (the Thor one) where he's been in the solicits, afaik. I still think his role is under wraps and he's going to help, but the secrecy makes it hard to piece together.

  2. #47
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    Should've given Stonesnow Jr. the bounce enchantment.
    Omega Level Rodent Fighter

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post
    I wasn't expecting Loki in Thor today (though, in retrospect, the compare and contrast with Laufey and Odin made sense). I'd say Loki and Thor need to have a beer together, but they're not on good terms, either Both of them had such a horrible interaction with their (presumed?) bio-dads, with both of them basically disowning their respective sons.

    I was happy, then face-palmed, then happy again about Loki and the frog. Like, yay for not killing someone! And then I immediately thought, wow, Loki, you are a terrible deep cover agent. That is where you choose to blow your cover? Really ? From a story standpoint, however, it really emphasizes where Loki is at--in fact, this issue saw him refuse to murder someone despite the consequences (getting kicked out of Jotunheim and thus Sanctuary), then pretty much declare war on Malekith.

    I'm pretty sure he's now out of Malekith's club. I mean, that's what I would normally interpret ordering an assassination as. I'm not worried about Loki -- as far as I could see, those were just dark elf mooks, no one said they were anything special. So, unless I missed something, I think Malekith is seriously underestimating Loki.

    We've seen a lot of solicits about Thor being trapped in Jotunheim (and heroes having to go rescue him), and I really hope Loki's part of that, especially if the father referenced in that solicit is Laufey. From a story standpoint, this might be difficult (not invalidating the team going to rescue Thor), but if he manages to get Thor free and they're fighting all of Jotunheim, they could still use backup. Either that or he's in NYC, but I think Jotunheim is more likely. Maybe? That is basically the only issue (the Thor one) where he's been in the solicits, afaik. I still think his role is under wraps and he's going to help, but the secrecy makes it hard to piece together.
    Malekith has been looking for a way to get rid of him for a while now. He made Loki throw the elf queen off of the balcony and has made several other threats. He was never going to let Loki be a part of the council for the whole duration and, honestly, neither was Laufey.

    Yes, Malekith is sending in those mooks, but if they don't kill Loki, someone else might be sent to do it. I'm not sure Malekith is really underestimating him so much as he's overestimating his own power.

    He thinks he has time to deal with people like Loki and Odin and Thor. Obviously with all the different climate issues that the heroes are going to be dealing with, the heroes are going to have to spend a lot of time just dealing with that. That's probably what they're betting on.

    Good point about Thor getting stuck in Jotunheim, where Loki is probably at least hiding out. To complicate things, NYC is probably taken over by the Jotun.

    One thing I noticed is that the cover for this issue is Odin and Thor enjoying a few beers, hanging out and having a nice time. And then we have Loki and Laufey appearing to have a fun time...

    But I still wonder about Laufey and Loki. Laufey still isn't killing Loki. That just has me wondering why? Especially when Loki is clearly dangerous

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Should've given Stonesnow Jr. the bounce enchantment.
    Dude, too soon.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    It didn't say the Norn Stones, just the Norns. As in the Fates. I think it was just saying that fate had been unkind to Loki, and was referring to his frequent attempts of late to break free of a fate that others had crafted for him, his desire to control his own fate.

    I still don't think anything but Odin being his father would mean much of anything to Loki, especially in the light of this issue. It just makes story sense, with how Aaron is playing things here. I mean, say he's a magical creation.... so? what does it mean for him? how does it change his life? learning he was a magical creation won't grant him new abilities, or change his life in any significant way. It may explain some things, i guess, but... enh. It has to mean something to him, have an impact on his life, or it is a worthless revelation. Odin accomplishes that better than most things, because of what being Odin's son would represent to Loki. He wants to be an Asgardian, he wants a more solid connection to his chosen family, to his home. I mean Laufey repeatedly points out he's shit at being a Jotunn, he doesn't act like he should, he doesn't look like them, (even though he probably could, if he wanted. He's a shapeshifter. But he still chooses not to, even though it would be a benefit to him in this situation to get all blue and frosty) he doesn't think like them, the magic he uses and is so good with is Asgardian in origin. He's Asgardian (or, more specifically, Aesir) in every way except by blood. Having the All-Father's blood in his veins would mean he belongs with them even if they don't want him. It would also create this sort of ironic, bitter circle or resentful hate mixed with a desire for acceptance. Thor this issue thoroughly disowned Odin, he wants nothing to do with him, nearly killed him, but Odin wants to be a good father to Thor, but just can't seem to manage it, is absolutely horrible at it, he's constantly cruel, belittling, or uncaring. Loki, on the other hand, wants to be Odin's son rather than Laufey's, not because Odin is a good father, but because of what that would represent, what it would say he is, and represent as a sign of acceptance from his chosen family.... but Odin hates Loki and wants nothing to do with him. Something like the Norn stones would lack that sort of resonance, and hasn't been hinted at, while his birth mother possibly having had an affair has been at least vaguely hinted at.

    I definitley think that solicit is misleading, but honestly I had not considered Odin as being the father the text was referring to, but that could make some sense, for sure. The cover was definitely deceptive, I mean, just look at how Laufey treated him this issue, how do you get from here to gleefully riding on his shoulders as he attacks everyone?
    In actual Norse Mythology, Loki was Odin's blood brother, not his son, and he never would have become an All Father or been able to found Asgard without his help. After reading what you wrote, it made me think about how I also read today about how we pretty much don't know hardly anything about Odin's past.

    What if Loki was transformed into a baby all those years ago, and as Odin's best friend he couldn't abandon him or use his magic to restore him, so he raised him instead.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GigaBalls View Post
    In actual Norse Mythology, Loki was Odin's blood brother, not his son, and he never would have become an All Father or been able to found Asgard without his help. After reading what you wrote, it made me think about how I also read today about how we pretty much don't know hardly anything about Odin's past.

    What if Loki was transformed into a baby all those years ago, and as Odin's best friend he couldn't abandon him or use his magic to restore him, so he raised him instead.
    Raye, I'm so sorry I didn't see your post!

    But first, as to the original myths, this isn't a horrid idea. It would certainly explain Odin's not giving up on Loki despite the many, many bad things he does. It might even explain some of why Laufey doesn't murder him.

    However, we have no evidence of that happening and Marvel has always sort of ignored that official version.

    You must remember that Stan Lee didn't have Internet and was trying to create what basically became a new mythology.

    And may that is what is tripping me and Raye up is that we are trying to frame our predictions based on how the comics play out instead of the myths.

    I don't think Odin actually hates Loki here. After all, Odin didn't try and attack Loki when he turned up with a Celestrial. He loves Loki, even if things are very complicated.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post
    I wasn't expecting Loki in Thor today (though, in retrospect, the compare and contrast with Laufey and Odin made sense). I'd say Loki and Thor need to have a beer together, but they're not on good terms, either Both of them had such a horrible interaction with their (presumed?) bio-dads, with both of them basically disowning their respective sons.

    I was happy, then face-palmed, then happy again about Loki and the frog. Like, yay for not killing someone! And then I immediately thought, wow, Loki, you are a terrible deep cover agent. That is where you choose to blow your cover? Really ? From a story standpoint, however, it really emphasizes where Loki is at--in fact, this issue saw him refuse to murder someone despite the consequences (getting kicked out of Jotunheim and thus Sanctuary), then pretty much declare war on Malekith.
    to be fair, I think Loki's cover had been blown anyway, due to what happened in Hel. As I mentioned, i was kind of surprised he was with them at all, after he openly fought against the Queen of Cinders in Hel. He may have somehow managed to talk his way out of that, but... still. and with the invasion imminent, he may just not consider it worth it anymore.



    I'm pretty sure he's now out of Malekith's club. I mean, that's what I would normally interpret ordering an assassination as. I'm not worried about Loki -- as far as I could see, those were just dark elf mooks, no one said they were anything special. So, unless I missed something, I think Malekith is seriously underestimating Loki.
    I am sure Loki will be fine, but when the mooks fail, Malekith may send Kurse, or one of the other lieutenants he trusts more, like Enchantress or someone. Or as has been suggested, he may fake his death.

    We've seen a lot of solicits about Thor being trapped in Jotunheim (and heroes having to go rescue him), and I really hope Loki's part of that, especially if the father referenced in that solicit is Laufey. From a story standpoint, this might be difficult (not invalidating the team going to rescue Thor), but if he manages to get Thor free and they're fighting all of Jotunheim, they could still use backup. Either that or he's in NYC, but I think Jotunheim is more likely. Maybe? That is basically the only issue (the Thor one) where he's been in the solicits, afaik. I still think his role is under wraps and he's going to help, but the secrecy makes it hard to piece together.
    That's a good point about Thor being in Jotunheim, hopefully he and Thor can start mending bridges soon, and if he helps rescue Thor from Jotunheim, that could go a long way there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Should've given Stonesnow Jr. the bounce enchantment.
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    One thing I noticed is that the cover for this issue is Odin and Thor enjoying a few beers, hanging out and having a nice time. And then we have Loki and Laufey appearing to have a fun time...

    But I still wonder about Laufey and Loki. Laufey still isn't killing Loki. That just has me wondering why? Especially when Loki is clearly dangerous
    I think Laufey is a cruel and brutal person, but Loki is still his only (surviving) son, at this point Loki is his only heir. Or was. He seems to have finally given up on Loki becoming the son he wanted with this issue. In any case, killing your only heir is a rather drastic step. though he did make attempts before, it's kind of become a running joke, all his failed attempts on Loki's life. Maybe he just gave up trying after failing so many times.

    But yeah, this cover was a big fat lie, wasn't it? Which makes me more confident that the cover with Loki on Laufey's shoulders is likewise a big fat lie. We can't trust the covers anymore, clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by GigaBalls View Post
    In actual Norse Mythology, Loki was Odin's blood brother, not his son, and he never would have become an All Father or been able to found Asgard without his help. After reading what you wrote, it made me think about how I also read today about how we pretty much don't know hardly anything about Odin's past.

    What if Loki was transformed into a baby all those years ago, and as Odin's best friend he couldn't abandon him or use his magic to restore him, so he raised him instead.
    Yeah, in the myths we actually don't know a ton about Odin's early life, it really picks up with him as he is already a well established adult, with his past just kind of sketched in, so yeah, that may be some more missing stories. I'm sure there are probably a bunch of them, since it was largely an oral thing for a very long time, there were runestones, that had rudimentary versions of the myths on there, but there's only so much detail you can get into on a big rock. They weren't properly written down until the Norse had already become Christianized, and they were written down by monks. It's entirely possible things got changed a bit by them to make them better fit Christian values, and some myths may have been ignored or simply forgotten about. And Loki was actually Thor's weird uncle (sort of. I'm sure we all have at least one "uncle/aunt" that is actually just a close family friend) and Thor himself was actually pretty different, with red hair and was actually a lot more stupid and brutish than he is in the comics. The comics are definitely their own thing at this point, and I don't have a problem with that. I like how the comics are, and wouldn't want already established things changed just to better fit the myths. But there is still that mythology seed there, and they sometimes come back to it for inspiration, or use it to fill in some blanks, so it's worth keeping the myths in mind...

  8. #53
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    Or the fangirls find out about that one myth and milk it for all its worth. Dammit, Marvel, just make it canon and we will all give you money!

    And the covers always lie. You can depend on that LOL

    But in this case, I think we knew there was a chance for that because Laufey probably wouldn't let Loki ride on his shoulders even on a good day.

    I'm still not sure that Loki doesn't have a connection to the Non stones. Yes, he's a shapeshifter, but it still feels like we're leading to something on what he is.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    It's not even a myth, it's just like, one small section of what Odin said to him in the Lokasenna during his y'all suck speech.

    Thou was eight winters
    on the earth below,
    milked cow as a woman,
    and didst there bear children.
    Now that, methinks, betokens a base nature

    That's literally all there is to it. It's not expanded upon anywhere else that I am aware of. He lived for 8 years as a woman on Midgard, and had children there, and Odin used that to insult him. That's it. But because it is so bare bones, it could totally be expanded upon to fit whatever need they have in the comics, they could create any scenario they like as to why Loki did that, or what happened to the family Loki had. The story with Thor and his midgardian lover back in the viking age made me think of it.

    and I mean, usually they try to at least make the cover vaguely resemble the events of the issue, but this.... not even close, aside fro the fact that Odin and Thor are both in it.

    I think they totally are leading somewhere with his parentage, but I just can't see that it would matter to him one tiny bit what he is, it's inconsequential for Loki. He's never let himself be defined by his biology before, (beyond the fact that him being an adopted frost giant made it hard to fit in, but learning he's something else won't affect that) instead choosing to be his own thing, so why would he start now? He defines himself more by what he isn't rather than what he is. No matter what the answer is, finding out he's a troll or a Norn, he's still the same as he was before, it changes nothing in his life, aside from maybe explaining why he doesn't look like a frost giant, and distancing himself from Laufey. (but I don't think a DNA test is really needed there, after this issue) But those are really weak story reasons to go messing with his parentage, because it's not going to impact him significantly. What matters is what it means to him, and if it can actually have an impact on his life. And there are very few answers to the parentage question that would mean anything to him, and the main one i can think of is Odin, because he chose to live as an Asgardian, primarily, but he's always felt like an outsider. That he isn't really an Asgardian has been the sticking point with him, because it made him an outsider, not that he is specifically a frost giant, or whatever else, the problem was always that he isn't an Asgardian, or a blood relation to his family. So I guess some random Asgardian could kinda accomplish the same thing, but making it Odin, or maybe Cul or someone else in the royal family would actually symbolize something to him, in a way that some other revleation can't because it provides him the family connection he has always wanted.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-14-2019 at 08:43 AM.

  10. #55
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    Actually I meant him being knocked up by a horse, but yeah, him living as a woman works too. I don't know why mpreg is so popular, but it is. And Marvel knew what they were doing. And all Marvel needs is one little reference or image and Tumblr would break in celebration.

    I just think that Loki isn't related to Odin at all. I think Laufey made a deal with someone to get a son who could defeat his enemies and Loki is the result.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't think it's popular, in terms of the general fandom, it's certainly not something I'm interested in. It's that it has a certain fringe section of the fanbase that's got a specific kink, and they produce a lot of fan-work, because that's pretty much the only way they're going to get that sort of content. And in this case in particular, it gets attention because people find that bit of the myths and go 'wtf....?' they share it because it's weird, not because it's something they're particularly interested in. Fandoms, or just segments of fandoms, sometimes have a way of coming across as being larger than they actually are, tiny fringes can appear to be very popular if it is mostly focused on producing fan art, and kink stuff usually is. I don't think it will ever really find it's way into the comics in a significant way, aside from maybe mentioning the myths, and I don't think it would get a lot of positive reception over the larger fanbase if it did.

    I'm not saying it being a fringe is bad. Technically every fan gathering space is a fringe of the fandom, including CBR here. There is no fan monolith consensus, people just kinda gravitate to the particular fringe group that best aligns with their interests. So you have the continuity nerds grathering in one place and the kink people somewhere else, and the shippers somewhere else etc. and they are all parts of the larger fandom but none of them represent it as a whole. and the mpreg corner of tumblr or dA or whatever is just another group. A small, but active one. the publishers have to find ways to please as many of these fringe groups as they can, but they will never please them all, but the more weird and, well, fringe the idea is the less likely it is to be used because it is less likely to have overlap with other fringe groups.

    I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this, cus I just think Odin, or at the very least a member of the Asgard royal family, makes way too much sense, with all the foreshadowing and what it would mean to Loki.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-14-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  12. #57
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    I know, that's why I want it to happen lol >

    I like seeing fan communites flip their shit. It's like watching a car wreck where no one gets physically hurt!

    True about the origin. We will just argue around each other.

    I'm just happy to have something Loki related to talk about for a minute.

  13. #58
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    http://https://community.cbr.com/sho...atch-1-Preview

    We have the preview for Infinity Watch. No Loki and heavy on Odin.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Link didn't work for me, i found this one: https://www.newsarama.com/43923-wolv...atch-1.html#s1 but it doesn't have Odin, just Wolverine and Jean. That one makes me think more the present day wolverine, but this page from before: https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/u...poilers-10.jpg definitely seemed like future Wolverine, so I dunno, it's weird.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Link didn't work for me, i found this one: https://www.newsarama.com/43923-wolv...atch-1.html#s1 but it doesn't have Odin, just Wolverine and Jean. That one makes me think more the present day wolverine, but this page from before: https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/u...poilers-10.jpg definitely seemed like future Wolverine, so I dunno, it's weird.
    Why did I say Odin when I meant Jean? That is a weird screwup lol

    But yeah, timeline is wonky and I hope they clarify a few things.

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