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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, I mean, I don't think Loki was trying for his approval because he actually wanted it on a personal level... I don't think Loki likes Laufey any more than Laufey likes Loki. I am guessing he was doing it because it was needed to accomplish a larger goal, that's all. So I wouldn't feel too sad there, not like he's losing out on a wonderful family or anything, Laufey's a monster. And having looked up that page, to refresh my memory, i really am not getting any sort of personal angst from him, except maybe a bit of missing life in Asgard, I think he was just disappointed that the meeting was not very interesting or fun, i don't think it had anything to do with Laufey in particular at all. It was later that the personal stuff came in where he got Laufey's approval, but felt disgusted with himself about how he did it.

    It's his relationship with Thor I feel sad about. they were so close to patching things up, then Thor thought he had stolen something important (when he hadn't) and then Loki pulled the Celestial stunt, poisoning things between them once again. See what I said above about secrecy and manipulating people rather than trusting people and just asking for help.
    Last edited by Raye; 02-19-2019 at 04:56 PM.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So it turns out Loki WAS in the preview for the Wolverine thing. So it was... better-ish, but still some damned weird dialogue (since when would wolverine from the end of time say "I gotta scoot"?) and handwaves. And yeah it clarified the timeline, some, of which Wolverine was where and when, but still didn't explain why Wolverine and Loki seemed so familiar with each other back in that first meeting. Logan didn't remember it, because it was future Wolverine, but Loki remembered it, so...

    If he was in anything else this week, I never read it.

    Solicits out: https://www.newsarama.com/43995-marv...citations.html

    and Loki does have one War of the Realms variant cover, though one that's kinda weird and not story related in the slightest:



    But was not mentioned in any solicits, except the Wolverine thing, but he's not on the cover of that:

    WOLVERINE: INFINITY WATCH #4 (of 5)
    GERRY DUGGAN (W) • ANDY MACDONALD (A)
    Cover by GIUSEPPE CAMUNCOLI
    Things are heating up for Logan as he and Loki try to protect the new guardians of Infinity…
    32 PGS./Parental Advisory …$3.99
    Last edited by Raye; 02-21-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Artist of the above variant cover broke down his process here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzqm3E it's actually pretty interesting since you don't see 3d modeled work very much in comics.

  4. #79

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    Been a bit, huh?

    We have an explanation for Kid Loki's absence from future AotG covers, unfortunately.
    spoilers:
    Apparently the main Loki thought his work was done and ended the spell that created him, so he just kinda went... poof. Kid Loki was annoyed at it, but at least he had a nice moment with Angela before he left?
    end of spoilers

    He showed up in the new Thor too, but just for one page, basically just to say 'well I apparently at some point had some plan of stopping Malakith earlier through my tricks but for whatever reason that didn't work out, whoops, woe is me.' It's... as eh as I normally find Aaron's Loki, but what is a treat is that Lee Garbett drew this issue, and it's honestly lovely to see his Loki art again. He even apparently has his own tiny room in Laufey's castle that's filled with board games and strung up with lights, it's a cute detail.

    Honestly what I found the most fun though, was Wolverine: Infinity Watch #2. The whole issue is basically one action chase sequence, but it flows well, and Logan and Loki honestly play off of each other well. Loki was given a lot to do as well, both pulling off some cool tricks, and some pretty funny bits. I know Duggan isn't the most favored author around here, but he's grown on me, and honestly I'm just glad to see Loki allowed to be such an active character in a narrative again for once.

    (Oh, and neat detail: apparently future Thor was collaborating with future Wolverine to send them on the mission together.)
    Last edited by dr4conianlaw; 03-21-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Honestly, when I saw i would be posting for like the 4th time in a row, I just said to myself, I wasn't going to just talk to myself in here. I know some people are more lurkers, but it would be nice if more of them spoke up sometimes so there was an actual discussion. I know i can be kind of strong in my opinions, and may fiercely defend my points, but that doesn't mean I don't like hearing other people's thoughts. I did share my thoughts on my tumblr:

    http://rayegunn.tumblr.com/post/1835...e-realms-stuff
    http://rayegunn.tumblr.com/post/1835...hat-related-to
    http://rayegunn.tumblr.com/post/1835...thought-it-was

    TLDR to specifically address your first point - I think that scene in Thor was an act. At least partly, likely there are elements of truth mixed in there as well. But like, think about it. This kind of deception is Loki's whole deal. He lets those Dark Elf goons in the final panel "kill" him with the aid of an illusion or something, (just like what he did in Infinity Watch this week, except swap out Logan for Loki. it's one of his trademark moves.) after hearing him say that his plans had failed, that he was only one Loki, (blatant lie, because there was "Kid Loki" even if he did get, uh, dismissed) oh woe is me, there's no hope of stopping Malekith now.... What would Malekith think if his assassins report back that not only had they killed Loki, but also that they overheard him saying he thought the situation was hopeless and that he had tried to stop Malekith but failed? he'd get lulled into a sense of false security, wouldn't he? He'd think it was smooth sailing to victory, and he wouldn't have to look behind him for a backstab from Loki. Then later Loki reveals his death was greatly exaggerated, and it's like SURPRISE, MOTHERFUCKER, as his machinations behind the scenes finally come to fruition. I mean we already know those assassins in the final panel won't actually succeed, the solicits have been very stingy on Loki details, but at the VERY LEAST, we know he is alive as of the beginning of the event because he is mentioned in a Thor solicit and Squirrel Girl. The "what happens next is what I deserve" line only makes sense if he dies right then and there, but we know that can't happen. So that says to me, that line was at least partly directed at the assassins/Malekith. Those assassins were shown there, at that specific moment, for a reason. It could be that they just show Loki dispatches the assassins next issue, but i think that would be a fairly weak resolution to the way the scene played out. It accomplishes nothing, that way. The 'I'm gonna get what I deserve" line doesn't make dramatic sense any more. Malekith will just send someone else, someone stronger. I mean I gues it would reveal to Loki that Malekith was on to him, but his dialogue last issue kinda showed that he already knew that, anyway. So having the assassins appear during his little woe is me monologue says to me the two things are linked, because they could have been handled separately, since we know Loki lives. We could get a scene next issue of Loki just killing them, or escaping, or something, but that could have happened without the monologue. The monologue could have happened without the assassins. The most logical reason to have the assassins appear there, if we assume they don't actually kill him, is for Loki to send a message to Malekith. One full of lies, as is Loki's way. He's saying to Malekith "You won. I'm dead, and even if i wasn't, I accomplished nothing" when he's actually still alive and got a secret weapon in the wings.

    and what will his master stroke vs Malekith be? also from my tumblr posts, this part I will just copy and paste the end bit of one of them:

    “ MIDGARD’S LAST STAND Malekith’s army gets a whole new crop of recruits — the dead! As Midgard transforms under the rule of Malekith and his allies, the dead rise up to form a new Niffleheim! The Black Panther calls in every hero on his roster to fight for Earth, from Spider-Man and the Spiders of Hel to Ghost Rider and Balder the Brave. But if there’s any hope for the Ten Realms, it’ll come from the skies… “

    So here’s the wild speculation part. This issue is where i think Loki will make his big splash, I think he will go get the Ngalfar Beacon that he had the Asgardians of the Galaxy acquire, (the Asgardians of the Galaxy solicits do not mention the beacon at all, they are instead off fighting in Africa, which seems to support this.) and swoop in with his fleet of flying ships full of dead gods, to help turn the tide of the War for the good guys. Asgardians of the Galaxy, it is mentioned that Loki created the beacon, with some time travel shenanigans (which i guess may be where the whole Infinity Watch Time Gem thing may actually tie in) expressly for the purpose of using it in the coming war. For them to devote the entire first arc to finding it, and then NOT USE IT, would be stupid. It has to be used, that beacon is a Chekov’s Gun. And it’s the NAGLFAR beacon, it makes sense for Loki to use it, as a reference to the myths, where Naglfar is Loki’s ship. (now a fleet) Not to mention it was him that formed the Asgardians of the Galaxy to get it in the first place. If anyone is going to use it here, it should be him.

    So I think he's trying to hide that he's created a superweapon to use against Malekith, and needs to be 'dead' to go get it. or maybe even really dead, it is a fleet of dead gods, after all, but hopefully with a resurrection plan in place if that's the case. But he faked Thor's death in the Hel arc, so I mean, presumably he can do the same for himself, right?

    Infinity Watch - I do like it better than the main event it spawned out of, and as mentioned, the thing with Wolverine's height was funny, but Duggan still has to do some work to win me back.

    Also, remember that YA novel that was going to be released with Loki? it now has a title and synopsis:

    Loki: Where Mischief Lies (hah, i see what you did there)

    "An epic tale across the realms. A deadly power that spans millennia. A story of struggle and betrayal, this adventure is told through the patchwork past of Marvel's most misunderstood mischief-maker of all time: Loki: Trickster. God of Asgard. Brother."

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...#other_reviews

    So, still pretty vague, but it's something.
    Last edited by Raye; 03-22-2019 at 12:35 AM.

  6. #81
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    Oh, Raye, it really isn't you. We just haven't had a lot to discuss. Loki has been largely absent from the books for a couple of weeks. There just hasn't been much to talk about.

    I do like your theory about the ships and I definitely think that Loki was playing a con there, especially when in Infinity Watch you see him using illusions to get his way.

    My only thing is that it seems that Malekith's forces control the dead, so maybe they suddenly get the horn and stuff first?

    Also, loved the mouse hole. Loki is normally pretty clean, so maybe that hoarding mess was just a part of the ruse too? Like the elves can even report back that he was living in squalor.

    Also, I just loved the height difference between him and Logan. Logan should be much shorter than Loki, who's nearly a foot taller than he is.

    "My Leg!" killed me lol

  7. #82
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I am sorry, I was belayed into my acquisition of the dose of the baby from Aaron.

    In his little ice room, he has chess, Clue, and all these other board games that he can only play with himself. This is so sad, can we get an annual about it?!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    I am sorry, I was belayed into my acquisition of the dose of the baby from Aaron.

    In his little ice room, he has chess, Clue, and all these other board games that he can only play with himself. This is so sad, can we get an annual about it?!
    I didn't even think of that! That is so sad! Even if Loki is trying to fool the elves, it's so sad that he would even think of that!

  9. #84
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    And friends, we have a little bit of a view of Loki here:

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/03...noffs-at-c2e2/

    It says it's from Thor #12. So maybe our Loki goes into the past. I hope he doesn't turn out to be his own father or mother or something. Dear God, what if Loki is his mother?

  10. #85
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    After the last retread of the infinity wars, I had low expectations for Infinity Watch. The gimmick of turning the stones sentient seemed not that interesting to me.

    However, Infinity Watch has been an entertaining book. Has the high stakes (since infinity stones are involved), but doesn't take itself too self-seriously. I never though the Wolverine-Loki pairing was something that needed to happen, but their interactions seem true to their character and thoroughly amusing.

    Issue allowed Loki to still kind of be a jerk but still be helpful. He let Wolverine get hurt, then stepped in to save the day as it were.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    After the last retread of the infinity wars, I had low expectations for Infinity Watch. The gimmick of turning the stones sentient seemed not that interesting to me.

    However, Infinity Watch has been an entertaining book. Has the high stakes (since infinity stones are involved), but doesn't take itself too self-seriously. I never though the Wolverine-Loki pairing was something that needed to happen, but their interactions seem true to their character and thoroughly amusing.

    Issue allowed Loki to still kind of be a jerk but still be helpful. He let Wolverine get hurt, then stepped in to save the day as it were.
    What made Infinity War so frustrating for me was just how confused it was. I like Duggan, I really do and normally he's great, but that was just one of the worst events I have ever had to slog through.

    This feels much more like something he's having fun writing. Loki and Logan both sound like they should, the action is well paced, the motivations all make good sense, and there's plenty of humor.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Also the fact that one of the games in the pile was Clue may be, you know, their way of saying 'psssst! hey. hey, there is a clue on this page' to further hint at the fact that not all is as it appears here. But yeah, you'd think Loki would have taken up more video games, that you really can play alone (or at least online multiplayer) I know Laufey's castle probably doesn't have internet or, you know, electricity, but i am sure Loki could magic up a solution to that.

    and that is an interesting page. here it is, so you don't have to sift through the page to find it, hopefully BC allows hotlinking, otherwise i will edit and put it on imgur:


    I love that middle page, it makes me a bit sad that Del Mundo is a purely digital artist so there's no original to own. (tho the likelihood of me getting it even if it was is slim, but whatever)

    But i wasn't expecting time travel right then, so huh. It may be, as Rosebunse says, showing how the Naglfar Beacon came to be. What we saw in Asgardians of the Galaxy was very vague, and if it is the secret weapon Loki has up his sleeve, which makes sense, i'm betting they'd want to recap it in one of the more core books for everyone's benefit, anyway. But if "Kid Loki" was created by a Loki that had already created the beacon, and that happened before this moment, then it doesn't quite line up. I mean things get fuzzy when you deal with time travel, but still. so this may not be happening at the time of the "assassination" but a bit before. also in those pages is what appears to be a Dark Elf kid, and if this is time travel into the past, then that might be Malekith. but if that's the case, i wonder how they will explain away the 'why don't you go back in time and kill baby Hitler?' conundrum. but my guess is that if that is Kid Malekith, he's gathering body parts from the battlefield to feed his mom's dogs. You know, before she sold him for dog food.

    It may also be more of a viewing of the past sort of deal, where he's not actually there talking to his past self, just kinda... following himself around? seeing past events with the aid of a new perspective. which could explain why he doesn't do the kill baby Hitler thing.

    I also note a lot of Venom on those pages, and I did catch up with Venom in anticipation of War of the Realms. Donny Cates wants to write Thor sooooooo bad, he somehow manages to work some aspect of Asgard into damn near everything he's touched at Marvel, from Loki in Dr Strange, to Mjolnir in Thanos, to Odin in Cosmic Ghost Rider, to Hela and Beta Ray Bill in Guardians of the Galaxy, and tying the symbiotes to the Necrosword, an by extension Thor, via Knull. not to mention God Country was basically a love letter to Marvel's Thor comics. Anyway, I am betting that they are using this Symbiote/Necrosword/Knull stuff and Venom in War of the Realms as a sort of transition from Aaron to Cates. Link the runs together some. Because we know War of the Realms is the end of Aaron's run, i mean he may have an arc afterward where he ties up some loose ends, but, generally. And I would love to have Cates take it over, I think he'd be a perfect fit, and we already know he writes a great Loki. *edit- wait, scratch that, I forgot, Cullen Bunn is taking over Venom during the event. hm. Well, i guess it could still work, but...

    oh yeah, the song for this week's Thor, for the playlist, for obvious reasons:

    Last edited by Raye; 03-22-2019 at 08:37 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Also the fact that one of the games in the pile was Clue may be, you know, their way of saying 'psssst! hey. hey, there is a clue on this page' to further hint at the fact that not all is as it appears here. But yeah, you'd think Loki would have taken up more video games, that you really can play alone (or at least online multiplayer) I know Laufey's castle probably doesn't have internet or, you know, electricity, but i am sure Loki could magic up a solution to that.

    and that is an interesting page. here it is, so you don't have to sift through the page to find it, hopefully BC allows hotlinking, otherwise i will edit and put it on imgur:


    I love that middle page, it makes me a bit sad that Del Mundo is a purely digital artist so there's no original to own. (tho the likelihood of me getting it even if it was is slim, but whatever)

    But i wasn't expecting time travel right then, so huh. It may be, as Rosebunse says, showing how the Naglfar Beacon came to be. What we saw in Asgardians of the Galaxy was very vague, and if it is the secret weapon Loki has up his sleeve, which makes sense, i'm betting they'd want to recap it in one of the more core books for everyone's benefit, anyway. But if "Kid Loki" was created by a Loki that had already created the beacon, and that happened before this moment, then it doesn't quite line up. I mean things get fuzzy when you deal with time travel, but still. so this may not be happening at the time of the "assassination" but a bit before. also in those pages is what appears to be a Dark Elf kid, and if this is time travel into the past, then that might be Malekith. but if that's the case, i wonder how they will explain away the 'why don't you go back in time and kill baby Hitler?' conundrum. but my guess is that if that is Kid Malekith, he's gathering body parts from the battlefield to feed his mom's dogs. You know, before she sold him for dog food.

    I also note a lot of Venom on those pages, and I did catch up with Venom in anticipation of War of the Realms. Donny Cates wants to write Thor sooooooo bad, he somehow manages to work some aspect of Asgard into damn near everything he's touched at Marvel, from Loki in Dr Strange, to Mjolnir in Thanos, to Odin in Cosmic Ghost Rider, to Hela and Beta Ray Bill in Guardians of the Galaxy, and tying the symbiotes to the Necrosword, an by extension Thor, via Knull. not to mention God Country was basically a love letter to Marvel's Thor comics. Anyway, I am betting that they are using this Symbiote/Necrosword/Knull stuff and Venom in War of the Realms as a sort of transition from Aaron to Cates. Link the runs together some. Because we know War of the Realms is the end of Aaron's run, i mean he may have an arc afterward where he ties up some loose ends, but, generally. And I would love to have Cates take it over, I think he'd be a perfect fit, and we already know he writes a great Loki.

    oh yeah, the song for this week's Thor, for the playlist, for obvious reasons:

    Yeah, they just need to give Thor to Cates and let the whacky fun begin. I was so surprised to see how involved the symbiote stuff is in WotR, but I'm looking forward to it.

    Interesting, you're probably right that the child is Malekith. I think it's also interesting because you can sort of compare and constrast Malekith and Loki that way. I mean, Loki did some very, very bad things, but he was also damaged by his relationship to Laufey and the obviously damaging culture of the Frost Giants. He's also someone who, it can be argued, maybe should have been killed when he was a baby and it would have saved everyone a lot of grief. Loki, however, was able to redeem himself somewhat and turn himself into a force for cosmic survival, but he had to do a really bad thing to get to where he is now.

    It makes you wonder if he sees some of that in a young Malekith.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    That's a good point actually. It's not a one to one comparison, there are some significant differences, Loki was orphaned (yeah Laufey got better, but it was a loooooong time before he did) while Malekith was sold, and Loki was taken into a different culture, but Malekith remained with the Dark Elves the whole time. But they were both born into a shitty family and then taken in by an adoptive (better... not perfect, but better) family of sorts when they were young, and both went bad. Tho, while Loki fell to his dark side for a long while there, he's at least trying to turn things around of late, even if his methods are sometimes... questionable. At least his intentions are good. Malekith is instead absolutely reveling in being evil. But if Loki can turn himself around, maybe the same could be said for Malekith, as hard as that may be to imagine given his recent actions. but, i guess, if you give Loki the benefit of the doubt when he was at his worst, technically the same door has to be left open for Malekith to better himself. Doesn't mean you don't stop him tho.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Random thought, as I sit here watching tv and see someone playing D&D. Ok. He has a bunch of boardgames there, in that page from this week's Thor. and yes, we know, Loki likes games, always has, chess in particular is a recurring motif with him. And he does have a chess board there, but the only modern game we can make out the name of is Clue, and as I said above, that may not be a coincidence. On that page he says he is only one Loki, and it is bolded... We know of "Kid Loki" but... What if he wasn't the only dupe? What if he wasn't playing those alone? We already know Loki can make a tangible dupe of himself, with thoughts of it's own, we saw it in Asgardians of the Galaxy... There could be another one out there. I'd have reservations about this, as I have outlined previously, giving Loki the ability to summon up not just illusions but multiple tangible copies with the same powers he has is pretty OP, even if he is a god. But it could explain how he could convince the elves they really had killed him, since a simple illusion would leave no body for them to cut the head off of, to take back to his father, like Malekith told them to do. I presume Malekith meant Odin, so I am figuring something like they take his head to Odin, then Loki dissipates the dupe, like he did with "Kid Loki," thereby letting Odin know he is still alive without letting Malekith know.
    Last edited by Raye; 03-23-2019 at 05:41 AM.

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