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  1. #886
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I just don't think power levels are much of a concern here, aside from maybe looking for someone with more power than your average human pleb, because if power was the issue, they've got pretty much anyone beat. I think it's more the mindset they're after, and then they will grant the power needed to accomplish the task. Also, if they are representing Eternity, it may be that as the embodiment of the universe and time, he can't actually alter his own self, and may need an outside agent to act as his hands/tool. Like, think of a surgeon who needs surgery. They have the skill and knowledge to perform the operation, but it is impossible for them to operate on themselves.

    btw. apparently Eternity featured in the recent Dr Strange arc, and it's one where Strange, you know, made a deal with Mephisto, which is never good, so... But I'm wondering if that will tie in as well, it seems like it may play into the whole Mephisto thing they seem to be building towards in multiple books, but the presence of Eternity there is... suspicious, given the events in Loki and King Thor. But i have not read the arc myself, just some spoilers, so i don't know the details.
    Last edited by Raye; 08-17-2019 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I just don't think power levels are much of a concern here, aside from maybe looking for someone with more power than your average human pleb, because if power was the issue, they've got pretty much anyone beat. I think it's more the mindset they're after, and then they will grant the power needed to accomplish the task. Also, if they are representing Eternity, it may be that as the embodiment of the universe and time, he can't actually alter his own self, and may need an outside agent to act as his hands/tool. Like, think of a surgeon who needs surgery. They have the skill and knowledge to perform the operation, but it is impossible for them to operate on themselves.

    btw. apparently Eternity featured in the recent Dr Strange arc, and it's one where Strange, you know, made a deal with Mephisto, which is never good, so... But I'm wondering if that will tie in as well, it seems like it may play into the whole Mephisto thing they seem to be building towards in multiple books, but the presence of Eternity there is... suspicious, given the events in Loki and King Thor. But i have not read the arc myself, just some spoilers, so i don't know the details.
    It's just hard to know because we know that Marvel will do interlocking stories and build up, but in the middle of it, it's hard to know what is what.

    That being said, you have Mephisto in Avengers, Strange, and Loki himself has a history with him. Then you have the potential for him to show up in Spiderman and everything.

    Plus the Symbiote event is going to be done in a few months, meaning it'll be time for something else.

  3. #888
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Here's something on the upcoming issue 3 and House of Ideas from Bleeding Cool. https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/08...man-wolverine/

    Posted on August 19, 2019 | by Rich Johnston
    The new Loki series written by Daniel Kibblesmith and spinning out of the recent War Of The Realms is well-timed with a new Loki TV series in the works from Marvel and Disney. But this series will have a lot more to say about how the Marvel universe works.

    We have already been told it will feature the House Of Ideas and the Children Of Eternity. But what does that mean?

    Loki #3 Will Explain Marvel Comics Timeline - Especially For Spider-Man and Wolverine (Spoilers)

    The House Of Ideas was introduced by Mark Waid, Al Ewing, Jim Zub and Paco Medina in the recent Avengers: No Road Home weekly storyline. But it seems to have legs. not literally, that would be far too Baba Yaga of it. But this interdimensional meta-home of Marvel continuity, a teleporting get-out-of-jail card and a symbol of Marvel Comics storytelling in real estate terms looks like it will be all over the place.

    First, the final issues of Mark Waid and Jesus Saiz‘ Doctor Strange series features, and I quote, ‘A truly terrifying villain is working their way into the Marvel U via a small house in Kansas, in the issue that will have people talking for years!’ Now the House Of Ideas has of late been seen on Staten Island, but it could pop up anywhere. That’s one of its things. And in Loki #3, it is found in Asgard. Or Asgard is found in it, one of the two.

    Recently, House Of X showed us that the entirety of the Marvel Comics timeline took place over nine years, from Professor Xavier deciding to form the -Men, to the current date. Well, Loki #3 takes that and explains how the heroes of the Marvel Universe could have had so many adventures in that time, especially Spider-Man and Wolverine. Look for this issue to be referred to in internet arguments for decades to come.


    So this seems to have larger implications for Loki and the MU. Interesting.
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  4. #889
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, I think i don't think it is really 'found in Asgard' Loki was transported there from the Halls of All Knowing, we don't know where it is. But what they say is likely true in that it likely does not have a set location. If it did, more people would have found it by now. I think some of their speculation is reaching a bit, but since Waid was one of the writers on No Road Home, plus the Eternity stuff in the recent Dr Strange arc, that one may very well end up being the House of Ideas as well. I may have to go catch up on Dr Strange. I just didn't care for what I presume was the co-writer/artist contributions to the Galactus story making it overly old-school feeling, so i kinda dropped it.

    and also 9 years now? They've compressed things, it used to be 15-16 years. I think 16 years is kinda pushing it, 9 is really pushing things to the breaking point for me. But guess we shall see what Loki has to say about that.

    But where are they getting the stuff about Spider-Man and Wolverine in Loki? Wolverine makes some amount of sense, if you pair it with the Phoenix stuff in the King Thor future, plus his and Loki's recent teamup to protect the Infinity Stones (oh, also, the Soul Stone is in Dr Strange, apparently, Mephisto has it, so there is that to consider as well), but Spider-Man seems out of left field.

    and I think they are clearly building towards something with Mephisto, the Avengers stuff seems to be the heart of it, but he's been getting his fingers in a lot of stuff all over the place recently.
    Last edited by Raye; 08-19-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #890
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The editor of X-Men said 10 to the 1st power isn't meant to be taken literally and it's still like 12-13 years.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  6. #891
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought 9 years was really pushing it. I thought things were in the 10-15 year span depending upon which character you're looking at. But I guess we'll see how things are attempted to be explained in the next issue.

    And yes, I agree with Wolverine being mentioned or connected as he was seen in Thor as the possessor of the Phoenix force and Loki teamed up with him in the Infinity Watch series. Spidey, idk, unless they have a plan to showcase the MU through him.
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  7. #892
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    ah so maybe he confused lives with years, or something. Cus I have always heard that it's been about 15, maybe 16 by now, years since the formation of the Fantastic Four (real life first issue 1961), so X-Men (real life first issue 1963) would be a little bit after that, so 12 or 13 could work for the X-Men, since it was a while before they realized they didn't want their characters to grow old and die, and the timescale began sliding. It still results in a world ending catastrophe happening every few months in universe, and everyone leading remarkably full lives, but it's better than 9 years.

    Should be noted that there actually already is an in-universe explanation for the sliding timescale from Ultimates, which Kibblesmith seems to be using to some extent, so...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/...rvels_sliding/

  8. #893
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    I still go with my own head canon when it comes to the timescale, especially when there has been some extra aging over the past few years and Secret War's soft reset. Kibblesmith is also probably using whatever works for him, especially when he can mess with the timeline as he pleases. It does make you wonder what the Marvel office has hung up around the office on this.

    That being said, I still think that the 15 year timeline can still work so long as you consider that the FF could have been created five years in time before the other heroes came on the scene.

    Actually, this all sort of explains why the Children would be targeting Loki. If they want to stay behind the scenes, then Loki will get all the blame for if something goes wrong.

  9. #894
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't think he 'can mess with the timeline as much as he pleases' or that he (or even Hickman, who has a lot more clout) is using whatever timescale he wants. Editorial would have something to say about that, they have to approve anything writers propose, and they'd want to keep things more or less consistent with the rest of the universe in this regard, I would think, especially if it is setting out to explain how things work for the universe as a whole. I doubt they would allow wholesale changes to continuity on a whim, or allow him to use a timescale that didn't line up with the previously established timeline in other books. There is a reason there is a (albeit vague) set amount of time that has passed, even if there are sometimes exceptions made to allow characters to grow into adulthood or whatever. Editorial has final say, especially in matters like this, and they're the ones who keep the 15-16 years thing more or less consistent across all books, so the universe has some consistency.

    5 years could not have passed between Fantastic four and X-Men, the sliding timescale compresses things, not expands them, and since there was only 2 years between them in real life, then no more than 2 years could have passed between them in universe, possibly less, depending on when the sliding began. Unless they retcon in some kind of timeskip between FF #1 and the rest of the books. But Powers of X does seem to say it's been 10 years since the X-Men were founded, I just checked. So I dunno. If it's not meant to be taken literally, that was probably a poor choice of words.

    And I don't think Eternity or his children particularly care about what anyone may blame them for. they're far above such concerns. I mean so someone blames them for.... whatever. what exactly are they going to do about it?
    Last edited by Raye; 08-19-2019 at 11:03 PM.

  10. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I don't think he 'can mess with the timeline as much as he pleases' or that he (or even Hickman, who has a lot more clout) is using whatever timescale he wants. Editorial would have something to say about that, they have to approve anything writers propose, and they'd want to keep things more or less consistent with the rest of the universe in this regard, I would think, especially if it is setting out to explain how things work for the universe as a whole. I doubt they would allow wholesale changes to continuity on a whim, or allow him to use a timescale that didn't line up with the previously established timeline in other books. There is a reason there is a (albeit vague) set amount of time that has passed, even if there are sometimes exceptions made to allow characters to grow into adulthood or whatever. Editorial has final say, especially in matters like this, and they're the ones who keep the 15-16 years thing more or less consistent across all books, so the universe has some consistency.

    5 years could not have passed between Fantastic four and X-Men, the sliding timescale compresses things, not expands them, and since there was only 2 years between them in real life, then no more than 2 years could have passed between them in universe, possibly less, depending on when the sliding began. Unless they retcon in some kind of timeskip between FF #1 and the rest of the books. But Powers of X does seem to say it's been 10 years since the X-Men were founded, I just checked. So I dunno. If it's not meant to be taken literally, that was probably a poor choice of words.

    And I don't think Eternity or his children particularly care about what anyone may blame them for. they're far above such concerns. I mean so someone blames them for.... whatever. what exactly are they going to do about it?
    But Eternity gets nerfed all the time. Like, when does it actually act as powerful as it should be?

    I'm not even arguing here, I would really like to know. I can only remember times where he got beaten.

    As for the timeline, I suppose you're right, Marvel has to have some idea about this. But they may be using this time to shorten the timeline even more. I mean, I know I'm going to keep my own headcanon, and I imagine the editors might realize that longtime fans already do this, but this could be more for newcomers.

  11. #896
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Whether he gets jobbed or not is kind of irrelevant, that's kind of the Worf Effect in action, (omg, the big bad took down Eternity, they must be a badass! but repeat it enough times then it stops being as impressive) but that doesn't really diminish his place in the cosmic hierarchy, it's not so much power levels, it's the concept of the character, of him being the embodiment of the universe. Why would he care what anyone thought of him, especially mortals? He's above the level of gods, he doesn't need to convince people he/the universe is good to hang on to his position, he didn't have to win the position, he can't be overthrown and have someone take his place (except at the very end, by Entropy), he doesn't need prayers or faith or politicking to be what he is, he just IS, and whether people think he/the universe is good or bad is irrelevant. He'll still be the embodiment of the universe regardless, so he would have no reason to care what anyone thought of him or his actions. Do you give a damn what ants think of you? But say they did, and they did something to him, anything you do to Eternity affects the universe, so you're shooting yourself in the foot by punishing him.

    And though Loki (the book, i mean) may explain how things work, and maybe refine some details that were never laid out before, I don't think they are going to redefine the entire Marvel timeline in a Loki book. I love him, but let's be realistic, his book isn't prominent enough to warrant that sort of thing, that is Avengers territory. Even if this was in the main Thor book I'd still be doubtful. Even the Moira stuff in X-Men is mostly limited to the X-Men, and doesn't fundamentally change how time works or the timescale. (aside from what is apparently imprecise wording for the sake of nice round numbers creating some confusion.) Even if the other, previous, timelines were different, not like it affects any of the other books, so i'd expect something in the same vein for Loki where rather than changing the established past of the MU in a significant way rippling out to affect every other book i the line. (beyond any new rules established)

    Any changes to previous continuity will likely be restricted to events Loki was involved in, which to be fair does include some big ones, but I am not anticipating him actually changing any previously established events in a significant way. If he changes the past it will probably be with some kind of new aspect of the past we hadn't seen previously, particularly if it affects a recent event, such as what he did with Leah and Cul. He changed the past there, but as far as the MU as a whole was concerned, it affected absolutely nothing that was already established. Or to explain some kind of quirk of the sliding timescale (like how Punisher fought in Nam, but now is an Iraq vet). Or with established events, show that the events we saw were actually Loki doing time shenanigans, but the timeline of the MU as a whole would remain the same, just with the added detail of 'Loki was time traveling from the future in this story' to give a different context to his actions. Such as when Loki time traveled to kill Laufey. He changed his own past there, it showed a previously established event, but as far as the MU was concerned, nothing had changed, because it was merely revealing a new aspect of an established event. And like, it would explain how he knew to give those weird cryptic warnings he kept popping up with in assorted books over the past few years, for instance. so I'd expect him to time travel to around the beginning of WotR, and show that it was time shenanigans that led to him to do things such as stabbing Freyja, running for president, the whole Sorcerer Supreme thing, and WotR itself. those events will remain just as they are now, but the context of Loki's actions in them will change and be explained. that's what I am guessing, anyway.
    Last edited by Raye; 08-20-2019 at 01:59 PM.

  12. #897
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    This thought just occurred to me...What if instead of shortening the timeline or restricting it, they end up opening it in some way. Multiple storylines of Spider-man or Wolverine for instance aren't cut out or not-canon, but overlap, are in flux with time. It doesn't mean they didn't happen, just the opposite, the all happened and have affected the character(s). But due to the variables in space-time, they overlap and for the character's lives, they may only be able to remember so much (brain's ability to reformat information so it doesn't have a breakdown), but to the reader, we remember it all and can see all the variations. It can tie into the multiverse, but at the same time has an overlapping effect as well.

    Idk, I know there are a lot of loose ends with this theory and again it was a thought that came to me, so I don't know how it would or could fully worlk.
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  13. #898
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    hm, maybe, though I think that may be a bit hard to explain. It would make cramming all the events into 15 or so years a bit more workable, but at the expense of being harder to understand. Seems a bit like Hypertime at DC, though that was more for alternate versions of a character, or OOC stories, etc. rather than explaining the sliding timeline, but it's still sort of similar in principle. But it never really caught on, because it was a bit hard to wrap your head around. (Grant Morrison created it, naturally) and then the New 52 happened, and seems to be back to standard sliding timescale and multiple universes.

  14. #899
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Solicits out: https://www.newsarama.com/46630-marv...citations.html and covers which are now on a different page for some reason: https://www.newsarama.com/46631-marv...llery.html#s92



    LOKI #5
    DANIEL KIBBLESMITH (W)
    OSCAR BAZALDUA (A)
    Cover by OZGUR YILDIRIM
    2099 VARIANT COVER BY TBA
    IT’S WOLVERINE VS. LOKI BACK IN THE OLD WEST!
    Loki doesn’t exactly belong in these parts — or in this time period! But that’s never stopped the god of mischief before. And with Wolverine on his side, there’s no man or god with the power to stop him. Now…he’s just gotta get Wolverine on his side. See their first ever team-up in this two-fisted tale of gods and gunslingers, when Loki meets: THE MAN FROM UP NORTH!
    32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

    He did indeed make Loki a cowboy. And okay, so Loki and Wolverine HAD met prior to the whole Infinity.... stuff.... sort of (Wolverine had met Loki, in any case, but then Weapon X so.... ) so that first meeting where they seemed overly familiar now no longer fails to make sense but only because of a later addition fixing it.

    also:

    LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD — THE COMPLETE COLLECTION TPB
    Written by AL EWING & JASON AARON
    Penciled by LEE GARBETT, JORGE COELHO,
    SIMONE BIANCHI & MORE
    Cover by LEE GARBETT
    ON SALE DECEMBER 2019
    Reintroducing the God of Mischief — stronger, smarter and sneakier than ever before! As Asgardia’s one-man secret service, Loki is ready to lie, cheat and steal his way through the most treacherous missions the All-Mother can throw at him — starting with a heart-stopping heist at Avengers Tower! Loki takes on Lorelei in Monte Carlo’s casinos, heads to the ancient past on a quest for a magical sword and puts together a crew to crack the deepest dungeons of Asgardia itself! Plus: AXIS pits him against the brutish Thor, god of evil! But who is King Loki? What vile scheme has he been brewing all this time? And what does this shadowy king’s very existence mean for our Loki? Collecting LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD #1-17, ORIGINAL SIN #5.1-5.5 and material from ALL-NEW MARVEL NOW! POINT ONE.
    504 PGS./Rated T+ …$39.99
    ISBN: 978-1-302-92073-9

  15. #900
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    place your bets is loki gonna say yeehaw or howdy
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

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