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  1. #976
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah i think if he wears the whole full helmet and more classic look, a lot of people will take that as a sign that he went bad again, and I think they'd want to avoid that perception unless he's actually going bad again. Though, Kid Loki was basically wearing a modified version of one of his villain days costumes. Not a direct copy, but borrowed a lot of elements, so... I am not really a fan of the classic looks very much, but a lot of that is more that I prefer more modernized costumes in general.

  2. #977
    Amazing Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I prefer the modern costume, but I like seeing flashbacks to his old self as a reminder that this is not a brad new character, but an old one who went through a lot of shit to make himself a better person. Which is why I'd like to see a bit more roughness to him, a touch of darkness (not moping or depression), his old nastiness showing every now and then so that we can see his old and new self as one person. Character development is a huge part of his appeal, but for this to continue, readers need to see him as one evolved person from his Thor-hating, maniacal murderous days to this heroic point of time. If readers see them as two completely different guys, his whole evolution has no point.

  3. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karabaja View Post
    I prefer the modern costume, but I like seeing flashbacks to his old self as a reminder that this is not a brad new character, but an old one who went through a lot of shit to make himself a better person. Which is why I'd like to see a bit more roughness to him, a touch of darkness (not moping or depression), his old nastiness showing every now and then so that we can see his old and new self as one person. Character development is a huge part of his appeal, but for this to continue, readers need to see him as one evolved person from his Thor-hating, maniacal murderous days to this heroic point of time. If readers see them as two completely different guys, his whole evolution has no point.
    I agree with this but then again you'll get some response to this take as a sign that he's not truly changed and others even insisting he's full on evil and conning everybody despite actual panel time saying otherwise and I really don't want that!

  4. #979
    Amazing Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    Of course not if it becomes the universal modus operandi of his interaction with the rest of MU, but I wouldn't mind seeing that every now and then. It's believable that people will always be a bit careful around him, because he was evil, very much so, and I personally want him to occasionaly remember it and show regret, not just flip it away with "I'm changed, It's all good now". A good redemption requires internal struggle and facing the consequences of previous actions and some grief. All in moderation, of course; I wouldn't want to see him as a perpetual depressed brooder, god no.

  5. #980
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    Oh I wasn't referring to the MU responding to him as though he was still evil/villain, that's par for the course, but rather some of the fans/readers. How the MU treats him is sort of fine by me as long as it makes sense within the context of his narrative.

  6. #981
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    So, it seems to be that the picture of Loki being stabbed deliberately evokes the panel from the first Agent of Asgard issue, where Loki stabs Thor. Both in the general subject matter (of course) and the rough angle that the 'camera' is. What Loki was doing- if my memory serves me right- was exorcising a 'infection' from Thor that made him angrier, more violent, etc. etc. Is this stabbing a metaphorical one, to remove the past demons even more? To remove his own former identity, to make room for his future powers? Is that why he is dressed similarly to his old villain costume? Who knows?

    Sorry if the point's been mentioned before. And sorry about the image problems- I'm new to this site.
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    Last edited by OldSwinburne; 09-06-2019 at 05:03 AM.

  7. #982
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah, I thought the same thing. I mean I look at that scene, well, page 15, which is a callback to it, every day, because I own the original art, so... I know it well. I am not entirely sure what it could mean though, since I don't think he has anything in him that needs excorsising, unless as you say it's more symbolic of past demons or something. but the other side of the chess game seems kind of malevolent, so i dunno.

    And yes, some fans just don't seem to want to accept he's changed. At this point I am not really sure what will convince them, because it's been years since he was a true villain. Sure there was the questionable stuff with Avengers, but there were some blatant bits of dialogue there, and in Thor, that pointed to him doing bad things for a good purpose. His motivations have changed a great deal from back in the day. I mean he still has some bad habits, he's still pretty arrogant, can be snippy and mean, uses underhanded/questionable methods, as mentioned, etc. but the same can be said of many heroes, he himself made not of the thing we've been saying here about him and Tony Stark being very similar to one another in many ways. His intentions are good, he's just got a lot of bad habits to unlearn, and he probably never will for all of them. but he's trying.

    In universe, yeah I am fine with some characters not buying it, though. He's put them through hell.

  8. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSwinburne View Post
    So, it seems to be that the picture of Loki being stabbed deliberately evokes the panel from the first Agent of Asgard issue, where Loki stabs Thor. Both in the general subject matter (of course) and the rough angle that the 'camera' is. What Loki was doing- if my memory serves me right- was exorcising a 'infection' from Thor that made him angrier, more violent, etc. etc. Is this stabbing a metaphorical one, to remove the past demons even more? To remove his own former identity, to make room for his future powers? Is that why he is dressed similarly to his old villain costume? Who knows?

    Sorry if the point's been mentioned before. And sorry about the image problems- I'm new to this site.
    I also immediately thought of the Agent of Asgard image when I saw the preview. I am intrigued to whether or not there's some sort of connection.

  9. #984
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    My thing is just the lack of detail. I'm ot even aure what material it's really supposed to be. It looks like armor, but it could be fabric.

    I actually might like it more if it bad a bit of shine or some sort of etchings or something.

  10. #985
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSwinburne View Post
    So, it seems to be that the picture of Loki being stabbed deliberately evokes the panel from the first Agent of Asgard issue, where Loki stabs Thor. Both in the general subject matter (of course) and the rough angle that the 'camera' is. What Loki was doing- if my memory serves me right- was exorcising a 'infection' from Thor that made him angrier, more violent, etc. etc. Is this stabbing a metaphorical one, to remove the past demons even more? To remove his own former identity, to make room for his future powers? Is that why he is dressed similarly to his old villain costume? Who knows?

    Sorry if the point's been mentioned before. And sorry about the image problems- I'm new to this site.
    I thought of this same image when I saw the Loki page and wondered if there was a connection. Be it the sword, or some energy inside of Loki that was needing to be extracted.

    As for the costume on that page, to me it just refers to some other time/event occurring. I don't mind seeing different outfits or flashbacks to his previous comic villain looks. But I agree, I like his current look the best. It's him, but contemporary and at the same time not overly comic-book super-hero/villain costume. It's clothing that can almost be worn by anyone yet still shows who he is without going all spandex.

    Raye - great piece of AoA art to own! Looks fantastic in the original inks. Wow!!
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  11. #986
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Another thing to maybe consider about the chess game, is that in chess, one piece in the game isn't making decisions, it's the player, moving them all around. So if Loki is a piece in the game rather than the player, it could be representing his biggest foe recently, fate. Also in chess, it is sometimes a common strategy to sacrifice a piece in the interest of gaining some other tactical advantage in order to win. It may be his fear that fate intends to sacrifice him for the greater good. Or maybe that's what he wants, he seemed to like the idea of dying a hero (though a long way off) rather than fading away or becoming the villain again. But the sacrifice thing could work if he's just a piece in the game or if he's the one directing the pieces, but the meaning sort of changes based on which it is. If it's him playing the game, then it kind of calls back to what Thor said to him to "learn how to sacrifice for your people without actually sacrificing yourself" a lesson he's apparently not learned there... or if it's someone else calling the shots and sacrificing his piece, then it's more about fate.

    As for the costume, I think that right now, I like him to have it be a bit less costume-y. He's also discovered he actually quite likes Midgard, and I dunno, i just think some of that should come through. I think that's part of why everyone loved the outfit he was in when he went to see Tony (and is probably what he's going to be wearing when fighting Nightmare, based on future covers) he felt more human, even tho he's not human.

    Also, looks like the big 'Incoming' event with Hulkling and the Kree and this mysterious murder likely has to do with Eternity's Mask. so given that Loki's story involves Eternity's Children, and Kibblesmith dropped a couple hints about upcoming Kree involvement... I think it's safe to say Loki is likely participating in that event, which is more than likely going to be written by Ewing. So that should be interesting.

  12. #987
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    I'm new here and I've basically just came to know and love Loki's character a couple of months ago when I read all his stories from when he came back as KidLoki to now. I even went back to read the stuff prior to that when he was old Loki, truthfully I didn't really like the old Loki that much, I much prefer how he is written now and how most modern comics are written now. I just think Loki and comics in general are just more interesting with a lot more depth to them now rather than the classic black and white angle that the old comics had.

    But I want to bring up something from earlier in these threads.

    Its about the inconsistencies of Loki's power and his power levels. I do agree that Loki's show of power has always been inconsistent and it seems that it gets changed to what suits the writer at the time and it pretty much depends on who Loki faces in that moment. So either he seems powerful one minute but seems much weaker the next. I think though Kieron Gillen was the one who explained this in the best way possible and one can call it a retcon, I suppose, but I think there's a lot of sense behind it. But he basically said that Loki pretty much causes his own defeat by subconsciously wanting to lose.

    Here's the quote

    " I didnít talk much about Leah last time, but the green lettering started there, and is the guilty-conscience signifier. Leahís whole scheme has been Lokiís self-defeating urge made manifest. "

    " The emotional state and wishes of Reality Warpers can create effects Ė even to the level of creating whole people. "

    "....Loki has been stated repeatedly as a reality warper, at his full power....."

    " In short: Lokiís subconsciousness creates a plan to put Loki in a position where he has to confess or lose. This was all Loki's plan. "
    I think this is a great way to show why Loki is so inconsistent when it comes to powers and power levels. I also really like the fact that no matter how many enemies Loki has or how powerful they may be, the one true enemy of Loki will always be Loki himself and I think this is still pretty much the case now, him and fate. I mean I would still like for Loki's powers to be a bit more consistent but I guess magic is the mostly inconsistent anyway due to the various things you can do with it and there being so many branches of magic. Loki mostly dabbles in Asgardian magic though. I actually want to see Loki do some reality warping stuff since that is what his true power supposedly is, he seems to do this more subconsciously though than consciously, which I think is still very much the case. I do wonder if Loki himself knows what his true capabilities are or if this is a truly a subconscious thing, at least for the moment.

    Then again it's been a while since JIM and YA was written and a lot of things have changed and happened since, however this ties into what I think about Loki beating the odds though and going against his so called "nature" and his so called "fate", is that perhaps the one that Loki truly needs to overcome is actually himself rather than actual fate.

    Anyway that is my rambling views on that, most of which made no sense probably. But looking forward to Loki #3 and what the children of Eternity want from Loki or what they will show Loki, what this new power is, and what the whole chess placement means.

    Okay that's my rambles out of the way, most of which didn't probably make any sense

  13. #988
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    For a remixed classic costume it ironically reminds me of his Inversion outfit. I wish I could be friends with a cool guy with bright yellow gloves. *Sigh*

  14. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambadelta View Post
    I'm new here and I've basically just came to know and love Loki's character a couple of months ago when I read all his stories from when he came back as KidLoki to now. I even went back to read the stuff prior to that when he was old Loki, truthfully I didn't really like the old Loki that much, I much prefer how he is written now and how most modern comics are written now. I just think Loki and comics in general are just more interesting with a lot more depth to them now rather than the classic black and white angle that the old comics had.

    But I want to bring up something from earlier in these threads.

    Its about the inconsistencies of Loki's power and his power levels. I do agree that Loki's show of power has always been inconsistent and it seems that it gets changed to what suits the writer at the time and it pretty much depends on who Loki faces in that moment. So either he seems powerful one minute but seems much weaker the next. I think though Kieron Gillen was the one who explained this in the best way possible and one can call it a retcon, I suppose, but I think there's a lot of sense behind it. But he basically said that Loki pretty much causes his own defeat by subconsciously wanting to lose.

    Here's the quote



    I think this is a great way to show why Loki is so inconsistent when it comes to powers and power levels. I also really like the fact that no matter how many enemies Loki has or how powerful they may be, the one true enemy of Loki will always be Loki himself and I think this is still pretty much the case now, him and fate. I mean I would still like for Loki's powers to be a bit more consistent but I guess magic is the mostly inconsistent anyway due to the various things you can do with it and there being so many branches of magic. Loki mostly dabbles in Asgardian magic though. I actually want to see Loki do some reality warping stuff since that is what his true power supposedly is, he seems to do this more subconsciously though than consciously, which I think is still very much the case. I do wonder if Loki himself knows what his true capabilities are or if this is a truly a subconscious thing, at least for the moment.

    Then again it's been a while since JIM and YA was written and a lot of things have changed and happened since, however this ties into what I think about Loki beating the odds though and going against his so called "nature" and his so called "fate", is that perhaps the one that Loki truly needs to overcome is actually himself rather than actual fate.

    Anyway that is my rambling views on that, most of which made no sense probably. But looking forward to Loki #3 and what the children of Eternity want from Loki or what they will show Loki, what this new power is, and what the whole chess placement means.

    Okay that's my rambles out of the way, most of which didn't probably make any sense
    Welcome, friend. All are welcome here. All we ask is that you come and over analyze to your heart's content.

    You actually make a fairly good point. Loki's powers could be very dependent on his emotional and mental states. The whole thing in the YA was at a time when Loki himself was in a very bizarre mental state, where his powers would be in flux and probably out of control since that's how he felt. His thing at the end of Ewing's run could be because he was confident enough to make it work.

    With that in mind, it does make you wonder how his mental state is gonna work with his new powers.

    Also, should we start making a flow chart for the timelines or something? This is gonna get confusing.

    And I'm so excited for Ewing to get an event! This is gonna be so confusing! I love it!

  15. #990
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I remember reading that about Young Avengers, but I am not sure how much stock i would put into that under anyone but Gillen. Subsequent writers have been going based on what appeared in the books, not his writers notes, and the reality warping angle was never explicitly stated, even if that was what Gillen had in his head to explain what was happening. Though yes, I do think Loki has had a problem recently with his powers subconsciously getting out of control, and his power levels could be linked to his emotional state to an extent. though he's in a relatively good place now compared to before, which should mean he's in greater control. I mean sure, he's feeling down about his story being basically over and not having an important part to play going forward if the 'happily ever after' thing holds, but compared to before, that's really good for him.

    And the X-Men now threw a wrench in the event speculation, but if my guess about the X-Men striking a deal with the Kree is true, it could still work.

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