Loki Appreciation 2019

[Rosebunse]

Loki's redemption I think is one of the best in comics precisely because it is pretty realistic in many ways. He's had his occasional relapse, not everyone has believed him, and he's still struggling.

More than anything, Loki didn't start this out because he wanted to do good. No, the original Loki kickstarted Siege and all that because he had a suicidal desire to be different. And he got a number of people killed and all the child murder stuff happened...

Well, most people don't commit murder, but many do stsrt changing themselves because of the selfish desire to do this or that instead of what they're doing now.

So could Malekith see the error of his way? The thing is, he really isn't the big bad here, thay appears to be Knull.

Interesting idea about the dupes. We can't exactly rule it out. It might explain his different characterizations across the books.

[Snoop Dogg]

Some writer down the road will certainly take a big bite out of the PTSD burger Aaron's served up with Mal recently.

[Panic]

I saw this on deviantart and thought it was cool:

The link is here:https://www.deviantart.com/cristell1...rvel-746291358

[Rosebunse]

I saw this on deviantart and thought it was cool:

The link is here:https://www.deviantart.com/cristell1...rvel-746291358

Cuteness! Loki can be so cute!

[Raye]

ah, so cute!

Loki's redemption I think is one of the best in comics precisely because it is pretty realistic in many ways. He's had his occasional relapse, not everyone has believed him, and he's still struggling.

More than anything, Loki didn't start this out because he wanted to do good. No, the original Loki kickstarted Siege and all that because he had a suicidal desire to be different. And he got a number of people killed and all the child murder stuff happened...

Well, most people don't commit murder, but many do stsrt changing themselves because of the selfish desire to do this or that instead of what they're doing now.

So could Malekith see the error of his way? The thing is, he really isn't the big bad here, thay appears to be Knull.

Interesting idea about the dupes. We can't exactly rule it out. It might explain his different characterizations across the books.

Yeah, I hope Loki defies the odds and manages to keep things going, I think he's far more interesting now than he ever has been before. He actually has something to strive for now, besides just revenge or causing chaos, which are motivations shared by tons of villains. It's been a shame to see some other face turns that have lasted less time than Loki's get undone one by one, Galactus, Doom, Sabretooth... all back to being villains for some stupid cheap nostalgia grab, it's disappointing. (and Magneto is, as always, a complicated case, straddling the line between anti-hero and anti-villain, constantly flipping back and forth) But Loki is coming up on 10 years since he was a bad guy, nearly 1/5th of his existence, so I think he can make it. And if Cates takes over Thor, I'm confident he'll continue with his current characterization of trying to better himself.

Well, Knull is... if not dead, nearly so. Or at least the form he was using to extend his influence to Earth, the Grendel, is. Got all burned up in a furnace, aside from a small sample. When it comes to the War of the Realms, Malekith is definitely the big bad, it's his idea, he's the one gathering and directing the resources to make it happen, Knull had zero to do with it. Knull may become a big bad in the future, but he's on the back burner at the moment. And Nyx seems to have stolen his motivation, too, so he may be on a back burner for quite a while longer, so as to not take away from her. If Knull happens, it likely won't be for many months yet. If Cates takes over Thor, i think he'll make a comeback then, and also cross over with Venom, but I don't think he's on the table just now. I am just saying, I wouldn't call him the big bad right now. He's a big threat, sure, and he may become the big bad in the future, but there's always a bigger bad guy on the horizon, after Knull, it will be something else. It doesn't mean the current baddies can't be the big bad of the story they are in.

And with the dupes, I REALLY hope that if that's the case, it is just one or two max at a time. It would just get absolutely absurd and hard to keep track of, not to mention insanely OP, if he had a bunch of them running around. Aside from Infinity Wars, and the odd guest appearance, like Spider-Man, I don't think his characterization was really all that different across books, not any more than any other character out there, they just kinda, focused on different aspects, so not like it's really needed to explain away inconsistencies. My hope is that IF it was a dupe that got offed, "Kid Loki" had to go in order to set up the assassination dummy, because he can only maintain one at a time.

[Rosebunse]

ah, so cute!



Yeah, I hope Loki defies the odds and manages to keep things going, I think he's far more interesting now than he ever has been before. He actually has something to strive for now, besides just revenge or causing chaos, which are motivations shared by tons of villains. It's been a shame to see some other face turns that have lasted less time than Loki's get undone one by one, Galactus, Doom, Sabretooth... all back to being villains for some stupid cheap nostalgia grab, it's disappointing. (and Magneto is, as always, a complicated case, straddling the line between anti-hero and anti-villain, constantly flipping back and forth) But Loki is coming up on 10 years since he was a bad guy, nearly 1/5th of his existence, so I think he can make it. And if Cates takes over Thor, I'm confident he'll continue with his current characterization of trying to better himself.

Well, Knull is... if not dead, nearly so. Or at least the form he was using to extend his influence to Earth, the Grendel, is. Got all burned up in a furnace, aside from a small sample. When it comes to the War of the Realms, Malekith is definitely the big bad, it's his idea, he's the one gathering and directing the resources to make it happen, Knull had zero to do with it. Knull may become a big bad in the future, but he's on the back burner at the moment. And Nyx seems to have stolen his motivation, too, so he may be on a back burner for quite a while longer, so as to not take away from her. If Knull happens, it likely won't be for many months yet. If Cates takes over Thor, i think he'll make a comeback then, and also cross over with Venom, but I don't think he's on the table just now. I am just saying, I wouldn't call him the big bad right now. He's a big threat, sure, and he may become the big bad in the future, but there's always a bigger bad guy on the horizon, after Knull, it will be something else. It doesn't mean the current baddies can't be the big bad of the story they are in.

And with the dupes, I REALLY hope that if that's the case, it is just one or two max at a time. It would just get absolutely absurd and hard to keep track of, not to mention insanely OP, if he had a bunch of them running around. Aside from Infinity Wars, and the odd guest appearance, like Spider-Man, I don't think his characterization was really all that different across books, not any more than any other character out there, they just kinda, focused on different aspects, so not like it's really needed to explain away inconsistencies. My hope is that IF it was a dupe that got offed, "Kid Loki" had to go in order to set up the assassination dummy, because he can only maintain one at a time.

I think goodish-Loki is here to stay for a bit. The writers seem to prefer him, Disney seems to have something they can do with him, and he just makes for better stories. And I wouldn't say that Galactus is really back to being a bad guy. He just eats planets again, a sacrifice he made to help save the universe. The cruel thing he did was to bring Norrin Radd down with him.

Raye, I'm going to make a friendly wager with you. If Malekith is the ultimate big bad of the event, I'll draw you a picture of anything you want. If Knull if the big bad, then you have to draw me anything I want. And if both of them have roles of equal importance, then we both draw pictures of kitties dressed as different versions of Loki.

Knull isn't dead, not completely. His consciousness is still inside of every symbiote and he is still imprisoned on the Klyntar homeworld. And then you have All Black, which is connected to him. You also have all the covers that have black wiggly things on all the covers, as well as Venom being prominent in this event. And then you have Cates being so involved in...well, everything.

I don't really think that was a dupe in Spider-man, I just think Slott wanted to write old school Loki and he knew he would never get the chance, so he did what he could.

[Snoop Dogg]

Baby was in ASM last year because Dan was sick of people asking him if every big ASM story was gonna get Deus Ex'd at the end via Loki paying his debt.

[Rosebunse]

Baby was in ASM last year because Dan was sick of people asking him if every big ASM story was gonna get Deus Ex'd at the end via Loki paying his debt.

Damn, he got us good on that one. And to be fair, it was sort of a major dangling plotline, especially since Loki was at the point that Peter could sort of trust him...sort of...

[Raye]

And I can get being frustrated by all the asks, but he could have done his research on where Loki was actually at just then, or, I mean, he was so close to the end of his run, just let it go, let Spencer deal with it if he wanted. But too late now.

And with Galactus, I know you can argue the force of nature thing, and his reasons may have been good (tho stupid, there are other ways to destroy a planet to stop Ultron...which never even got resolved, with Pym being in the soul world, it was just dropped completely. So disappointing. ) but I more meant that they hit the reset button on him, back to purple planet eating status quo complete with Silver Surfer as his herald. Future writers won't care about the motivations of why he is back to being the devourer, just that he is, and have him try to eat Earth AGAIN, so he can be stopped AGAIN. Basically I am getting tired of the illusion of change, especially when changes seem to last less and less time lately, I want some changes that stick. The old stories will always be there, and be part of a character, letting them grow won't change that. and those old stories have never been easier to access if people want to read them, with multitudes of trade collections and digital making them easy to access for anyone, we don't have to dig through back issue boxes any more if we want to see a classic take on the character, and that ease of access to old material only makes it more apparent how often characters get reset. its ok if the heroes have to fight some different bad guys, instead of the same ones over and over. Thor has gone since Siege without fighting Loki, and it's been fine. Some writers seem to be on that wavelength, to be fair, but there is always the risk of someone else down the line eager to hit the reset button.

And I know Knull is still out there, and I am sure he will be back at some point in Venom, and probably Thor if Cates takes over the book, but I really can't see how he is part of the War of the Realms. He hasn't been mentioned at all in the lead up, its all Malekith. Venom has been mentioned, like every other hero in the MU, but that is just covers, and he's literally on Malekith's leash in some. It appears Malekith is taking advantage of the symbiote being all but mindless at the moment in order to gain control over it. the Necrosword kinda has been mentioned in the leadup, but in the future, so I wouldn't say it contributed to the current situation, certainly not the driving force, I consider those scenes more teases of things to come. It doesn't even exist in the present time, unless someone time travels to go get it from either the past or the future (but creating a paradox in the process either way) . And judging by the above pages, if anyone is gonna be doing that, it will be Loki, not Malekith or Knull. So even if Knull swoops in at the end and kills Malekith, or if it is him snuffing stars at the end of time, I would still consider Malekith the big bad of War of the Realms, because the current situation is all his doing, there is no evidence that Knull was pulling his strings in either Thor or Venom. At the end of time, yeah, maybe that is Knull. But that isn't the War of the Realms. So basically I guess I would take the wager, but I have to clarify that I do mean in regards to War of the Realms specifically.

[Rosebunse]

And I can get being frustrated by all the asks, but he could have done his research on where Loki was actually at just then, or, I mean, he was so close to the end of his run, just let it go, let Spencer deal with it if he wanted. But too late now.

And with Galactus, I know you can argue the force of nature thing, and his reasons may have been good (tho stupid, there are other ways to destroy a planet to stop Ultron...which never even got resolved, with Pym being in the soul world, it was just dropped completely. So disappointing. ) but I more meant that they hit the reset button on him, back to purple planet eating status quo complete with Silver Surfer as his herald. Future writers won't care about the motivations of why he is back to being the devourer, just that he is, and have him try to eat Earth AGAIN, so he can be stopped AGAIN. Basically I am getting tired of the illusion of change, especially when changes seem to last less and less time lately, I want some changes that stick. The old stories will always be there, and be part of a character, letting them grow won't change that. and those old stories have never been easier to access if people want to read them, with multitudes of trade collections and digital making them easy to access for anyone, we don't have to dig through back issue boxes any more if we want to see a classic take on the character, and that ease of access to old material only makes it more apparent how often characters get reset. its ok if the heroes have to fight some different bad guys, instead of the same ones over and over. Thor has gone since Siege without fighting Loki, and it's been fine. Some writers seem to be on that wavelength, to be fair, but there is always the risk of someone else down the line eager to hit the reset button.

And I know Knull is still out there, and I am sure he will be back at some point in Venom, and probably Thor if Cates takes over the book, but I really can't see how he is part of the War of the Realms. He hasn't been mentioned at all in the lead up, its all Malekith. Venom has been mentioned, like every other hero in the MU, but that is just covers, and he's literally on Malekith's leash in some. It appears Malekith is taking advantage of the symbiote being all but mindless at the moment in order to gain control over it. the Necrosword kinda has been mentioned in the leadup, but in the future, so I wouldn't say it contributed to the current situation, certainly not the driving force, I consider those scenes more teases of things to come. It doesn't even exist in the present time, unless someone time travels to go get it from either the past or the future (but creating a paradox in the process either way) . And judging by the above pages, if anyone is gonna be doing that, it will be Loki, not Malekith or Knull. So even if Knull swoops in at the end and kills Malekith, or if it is him snuffing stars at the end of time, I would still consider Malekith the big bad of War of the Realms, because the current situation is all his doing, there is no evidence that Knull was pulling his strings in either Thor or Venom. At the end of time, yeah, maybe that is Knull. But that isn't the War of the Realms. So basically I guess I would take the wager, but I have to clarify that I do mean in regards to War of the Realms specifically.

We don't know if Spencer wanted anything to do with it. Even if you want to write a Spider-man/Loki story, you'd end up having to do something with that wish eventually. And then you'd have Loki sort of being bound to do whatever Peter asked, at least once. It was a plot tumor that should have been dealt with years ago.

I guess I just don't mind things sort of resetting sometimes if there's a good story behind it. And like I said, I think change in the real world is pretty hard and difficult. To make things even more difficult, realistically, real change often requires changing your circumstances, something most of these characters simply can't do. So it's easy to fall into old patterns. Loki has not only changed his circumstances, but as you point out, Thor's world has changed too, meaning that Loki really can't go back to how he used to be.

The thing about Knull is, we had All Black being introduced way back at the beginning of Aaron's run and looking back, it's pretty obvious that the thing was basically a symbiote. Of course, we don't know the exact planning or how long Aaron was really planning all of this for or what exact duties he gave to Cates or the other writers. We don't know what has changed in the many years Aaron has been on this project. But I think the symbiotes and some version of Knull being involved has been in the cards for a while now.

I guess my definition for the big bad is a villain who is at the end. So while Malekith has certainly been planning this for a long time, I do think that he'll be just a tool for Knull. But as you said, we also have all the stuff with Carnage and everything.

[Raye]

We don't know if Spencer wanted anything to do with it. Even if you want to write a Spider-man/Loki story, you'd end up having to do something with that wish eventually. And then you'd have Loki sort of being bound to do whatever Peter asked, at least once. It was a plot tumor that should have been dealt with years ago.

Doesn't matter if Spencer had an idea for it or not, Slott still wasn't obligated to do that story. That plot thread had been sitting there for over 10 years, it can wait a bit longer, or just be ignored indefinitely. Why did he feel it had to be addressed right then, when it just amounted to an out of character filler story? Why not wait for someone with an actual idea for it to come along, could be Spencer, or whoever comes after him, doesn't matter.

I guess I just don't mind things sort of resetting sometimes if there's a good story behind it. And like I said, I think change in the real world is pretty hard and difficult. To make things even more difficult, realistically, real change often requires changing your circumstances, something most of these characters simply can't do. So it's easy to fall into old patterns. Loki has not only changed his circumstances, but as you point out, Thor's world has changed too, meaning that Loki really can't go back to how he used to be.

The 'if there's a good story there' part is key. a lot of the recent reversions were done with no real story behind them, sometimes it happened with no explanation at all, it just came across as reverting them just so they were in their 'classic' state, not to serve a larger story.

And conscious change can be difficult, but people do it every day, it's far from impossible. Unconscious change, though, just... happens. People change, their views and opinions change over time, they encounter situations that make them to change their views, they learn things that alter how they see the world, they go through events that alter their circumstances. it's life. I am not the same person I was 10 years ago, and who was 10 years ago wasn't the same as the person i was 20 years ago, the same goes for everyone. But the characters are not allowed even that a lot of the time. And a lot of what Loki has been doing recently is the unconscious type of change. His goal in the beginning wasn't to change himself, merely how others perceived him. But the events he went through ended up changing his view on things even though he wasn't actually trying. There is some conscious change there as well, but mostly it's that he experienced things that made him feel a lot of guilt, and that changed his outlook on things. Old habits die hard, so in the sense of changing his methods, and trying to make sure he dosn't fall back into old patterns is conscious, but at the base level, he wasn't trying to change, he just did.

The thing about Knull is, we had All Black being introduced way back at the beginning of Aaron's run and looking back, it's pretty obvious that the thing was basically a symbiote. Of course, we don't know the exact planning or how long Aaron was really planning all of this for or what exact duties he gave to Cates or the other writers. We don't know what has changed in the many years Aaron has been on this project. But I think the symbiotes and some version of Knull being involved has been in the cards for a while now.

I guess my definition for the big bad is a villain who is at the end. So while Malekith has certainly been planning this for a long time, I do think that he'll be just a tool for Knull. But as you said, we also have all the stuff with Carnage and everything.

Yeah, but the Gorr story wasn't the War of the Realms. One run, but different stories, or at least distinct chapters in the story of Thor's worthyness. They have some connective tissue because that's how serialized storytelling works, but still. And we don't know if Aaron was planning the Knull connection back then at all. It was Cates that introduced that aspect, it was a retcon. And one done in a completely different book, with a character not typically associated with Thor at all. While it's possible Aaron planned it, and Cates was acting under direction from editors/Aaron, we don't know that. Cates could have been acting totally on his own there, just looking to make a scary big bad for his Venom run and nothing more, and he just liked the Necrosword because of his obvious love for all things Asgard. Aaron will more than likely use this new development it in some way, when he uses the Necrosword again in the King Thor timeline, but it seems quite unlikely to me that the plan all along was Knull controlling everything. Especially since Cullen Bunn is writing the War of the Realms Venom tie-in rather than Knull's creator, Donny Cates.

[Rosebunse]

I think the thing that allowed Loki to change and stay changed was Gillen's JiM and Young Avengers. They were not just well received, but they made a point to argue that this Loki could not only be interesting, but that he could work in a number of other situations. Ewing's run just cemented it. It helped that Aaron wanted him for his run and has used him relatively well. The other thing has been that if a writer wants or needs a more malicious Loki, then they can find a way to work him in. Unlike other character changes, the writers can have their cake and eat it too. This even extends to the artists, who are allowed to design a Loki who, while they do have to stay within certain guidelines, can be as ugly or beautiful as they want. These creative teams aren't locked into a good or bad Loki. This is why I'm not sure I'm all that upset with Slott, because even if his issue wasn't that great, it did highlight this aspect of Loki.

But again, All Black was a symbiote from the beginning. From the way it was drawn, to the speech bubbles, to its effects on its hosts, it was a symbiote.

Bunn writing the tie-in just makes me more sure that Aaron is planning this and is dividing up writing duties. We saw a black tendril come out of the sun in the last issue. This wasn't the Mangog and it seems unrelated to Malekith. Then we have all the stuff going on in the future with All Black and that has to tie back somehow.

[Raye]

I think the thing that allowed Loki to change and stay changed was Gillen's JiM and Young Avengers. They were not just well received, but they made a point to argue that this Loki could not only be interesting, but that he could work in a number of other situations. Ewing's run just cemented it. It helped that Aaron wanted him for his run and has used him relatively well. The other thing has been that if a writer wants or needs a more malicious Loki, then they can find a way to work him in. Unlike other character changes, the writers can have their cake and eat it too. This even extends to the artists, who are allowed to design a Loki who, while they do have to stay within certain guidelines, can be as ugly or beautiful as they want. These creative teams aren't locked into a good or bad Loki. This is why I'm not sure I'm all that upset with Slott, because even if his issue wasn't that great, it did highlight this aspect of Loki.

I still think Slott was way out of character. There is a core character for any character, and while that core can shift over time with character development, and there is always room to focus on different aspects or adjustments for tone (as in Squirrel Girl, where any character that shows up is treated in a much more lighthearted way, but still generally adhering to their current depictions) all depictions of that character at a particular point in time should all fall within acceptable limits, and if it falls outside of them, they're out of character, plain and simple, and it goes for Loki just as much as any other character. Slott's fell outside those limits for me. In every other appearance at the time, and most importantly in Thor and Dr Strange where those books were kinda steering the ship with him at that point in time, Loki was trying to be better. Even if he failed sometimes, he was trying. (and when it appeared he wasn't, it was shown he was doing a greater good kinda thing, where even if his actions were bad, his intentions were good, or he felt bad about it) and then in spider-Man, it had him putting people in danger of death just to get out of a promise he had made. Add to that, he had his voice all wrong, and it was just wrong all around. If Loki is a villain (complete with evil intentions) in one book and a good guy in the next, how can we possibly pin down what his character actually is? There has to be limits, or he ceases to be a coherent character, he loses all personality traits by adopting them all. And same goes for art (well, the art in Spider-Man was fine, i mean in general) they aren't free to make him as handsome or ugly as they like, or muck around with his costume or whatever else, (unless called for by the story) there are, again, acceptable limits. They have model sheets for a reason. And judging by the core depictions and character dialogue, he is supposed to be pretty cute at the moment, as a contrast to his older appearances, so drawing him ugly would be wrong, plain and simple. There's some wiggle room for allowing for style, and you can grunge that up some, like they have recently, but that won't change the structure of his face. (or change the length of his hair, the ever changing hair length lately, in the Infinity stuff in particular, has been driving me nuts) So yeah, i disagree that you can have it anyway you like with Loki. He has a set character, and while it's kinda gray area, so that does give a little wiggle room when it comes to the role he plays, that doesn't mean he can go full on villain and contradict his 'trying to be better' characterization without at minimum providing an explanation as to why. Avengers and Thor, he played the part of villain at times, sure, but though it seemed fairly straight forward to begin with, it did become apparent that it was mostly him playing a part for a larger good goal, so it still fit, overall. (and the same goes for the other direction, but we haven't really seen that in the books) Spider-Man never gave that impression.

But again, All Black was a symbiote from the beginning. From the way it was drawn, to the speech bubbles, to its effects on its hosts, it was a symbiote.

We don't know that, it's a clue that points to it MAYBE being the case, but ultimately it's still speculation, because of the retcon aspect of the reveal. It could also be that Cates read that, and saw that it had similar traits to a symbiote, and decided to make it actual fact when he got the chance. I like speculating as much as anyone, but I do always leave the door open to being wrong, it's not good to take speculation as fact. I mean, other things do get the same speech balloons and FX, so it's not like symbiote was the only option when the God Butcher arc was going, otherwise people would have figured it out much sooner. Nyx gets the same speech balloons and black tendril FX, for instance, (and exact same motivations as Knull. she is pissed off that the gods created a bunch of stuff spoiling her perfect black void, and wishes to return the universe to perfect darkness again) and she's not a symbiote, she is a Greek goddess. Mr Misery, also by Aaron, had them, plus a nebulous black mass with tons of teeth for a body (though with considerably more eyeballs than most symbiotes) Ghost Rider gets black speech balloons too, and there are other examples as well, Hela sometimes has them (though it is not consistent) they're not actually that uncommon. As for black tendrils, the Black Bifrost is drawn as black tendrils, too, so if there are black tendrils in War of the Realms art, it's probably that.

Bunn writing the tie-in just makes me more sure that Aaron is planning this and is dividing up writing duties. We saw a black tendril come out of the sun in the last issue. This wasn't the Mangog and it seems unrelated to Malekith. Then we have all the stuff going on in the future with All Black and that has to tie back somehow.

If it was the Necrosword, and it is a symbiote... how would it be able to survive the sun? Fire is one of their primary weaknesses, it wouldn't be able to survive a 10,000 degree inferno. And why would it be in there in the first place? Hell, nevermind how it got in the sun, how is it present in this time at all? It got sent thousands of years into the future, there is no Necrosword in the present. And even if it is, and it ties into events, that doesn't mean it ties into the War of the Realms or Malekith specifically, it doesn't mean it's secretly behind everything Malekith is doing. Malekith is his own man, and a very evil kinda guy, he's perfectly capable of doing evil **** all on his own, he doesn't need something puppeting his actions to do it. Aaron told several stories, and though they flow together, because Thor dealt with all of them, and there is some overlap because Malekith recruited Agger and such from the earlier story, that doesn't necessarily mean Gorr, the Necrosword, and Malekith are actually linked together, any more than it would be that, I dunno, the Celestials, Namor, and the vampires are linked together in Avengers. And sure, the stuff in the future has to tie back to the overall story Aaron is telling, but that doesn't necessarily mean to Malekith specifically, all it has to do is tie back to Thor.

the 'tendril' in Thor btw, I think it was a bit more like lightning, like maybe Mjolnir/The Mother Storm was transformed by it's time in the sun.

*edited to add - just to be clear, I do think the Necrosword and/or Knull will come back into play. I just don't think it will be just yet. I actually have a vague hunch that they maaaaaaaaay come into play in December's mystery event. think all the teases and hints will come together there, Cebulski said that a lot of events since early 2018 would feed into it, and the whole situation with the death of the universe at the end of time actually checks the most boxes if you think it through, it covers all the bases, from Thor to Wolverine, to the symbiotes. Will probably also involve the million BC team, somehow. And Loki has been there for a lot of it, so... but again, this is speculation, and based on VERY LITTLE, I could be very very wrong.

Anyway. I had another look at the pages from Thor #12. And while it's a little hard to say for certain without any dialogue on there, seems to me that Loki went back in time to the war that killed Malekith's brothers, and led to him being sold. And my hunch is that ye olden days Loki actually is responsible for that war. So Loki from the present is being confronted with how his actions in the past have led to their present situation. Also, more than likely, he's probably being confronted with just how much he has changed since that time. Present-Loki seems fairly upset with what he sees, and possibly the realization that he was responsible for it, while ye olden days Loki seems just fine with it all. So it may not be Malekith that Loki goes back in time to confront, but himself. He may be the catalyst for everything, by creating the situation that caused Malekith to turn bad. Or it may be what he thinks anyway, it's possible Malekith would have gone bad no matter what. if that's the case, it wouldn't be a good sign for Loki's own face turn, since it points to predestined fate for Malekith to follow no matter what happened, and if that's true for Malekith, then it's true for everyone.

[Rosebunse]

I maintain that Slott wanted to write classic Loki and the man took his chance. It didn't work and it came out wrong, but he took his chance.

As for how All Black came back...time travel, my good Raye. And as for how it's survived the flames of the sun, well, symbiotes have a long history of just no-selling fire because they're so strong or whatever the writer is doing.

However, I do concede that the timing does seem wrong and rather, this may tie into that December event, whatever it may be. But I still think that we have way too much symbiote imagery for it to not be connected to the story. I mean, we have Thor going off to seemingly fight Venom on that one cover.

I do like your theory about Loki's time travel and how that could effect what he does, especially since we have a corrupted Loki in the future who might be responsible for getting All Black back to the past.

The thing about Loki is, while he certainly has changed and changed for the better, what is his limit for this abuse? When does he just decide to give up?

[Rosebunse]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/03...ms-5-spinoffs/

I'm too lazy to really edit this down, but we have preview art with Loki in it from Squirrel Girl. I think you all are going to love it.