Loki Appreciation 2019

[DragonsRazor]

Isn't there a chance that the number in sales could go up though. The series just started its been going really well so far to me and I can't wait for the next months issue. I'm going to be honest I don't know how it usually goes with sales when it comes to comics because I never paid much attention to it. Don't some solo series usually have highs and lows but end up being fine? Maybe once stuff starts rolling and a lot of the set up is taken care of it'll get better because again its only just started and people may just be waiting to see where it's leading. The first two issues got reprints so that has to be at least one positive even if it's a small one right now. Not going to lie though I'm a bit worried it won't last long too if the sales start declining.

[Raye]

There is always a chance, and the first 2 issues are generally ordered before they can really gauge interest beyond pre-orders, they are placed before anyone has any idea how good a book is, but... generally books sell the most with the first issue, and then continually drop readers until they end, or in the case of long runners of like 30+ issues (which we see a lot less of these days) a new creative team or something shakes things up and they get a boost, and then the decline begins again. It's just a question of how quickly the attrition happens, not if it will happen. Loki's first 2 issues did see re-orders so we may see some re-order numbers that save it in the months to come, but it's extremely rare for a book to increase in numbers significantly from the first issue. The only one i can think of recently is Immortal Hulk, which increased initially, by quite a lot, but is now in the attrition pattern, just from a much higher start point than it's first issue's initial orders would have had it at. Donny Cates' Venom might have as well, but i am not sure, i haven't looked at that one. But i have to stress that what happened with Immortal Hulk is EXTREMELY uncommon. Loki's audience may be stronger in digital and in trades than some other books, women tend to prefer digital and trades over floppies, and we don't get numbers for those (Diamond has a TPB section in it's charts, but more than just Diamond distributes trades, they probably sell significantly fewer than the bookstore distributors) which may mean Loki can survive on a lower threshold, like how Squirrel Girl went like 50 issues while selling below 15 thousand for much of it's run, because it sold strongly in trades. But again, this is unusual. Interesting to note though, that both Immortal Hulk and Squirrel Girl have the same editor that Loki has, so he may be more willing to see what the trade sales and long term performance is, but then again, it may not be his call.

[DragonsRazor]

Ok I see that makes a lot of sense thanks for shedding some light on that. Hopefully the attrition won’t happen too quickly for the series then and it lasts a while. Digital is a bit more convenient and takes up less space so it could be stronger digital since people tend to lean more toward convenience. A friend of mine I tried getting into comics didn’t like how your paying for bits of story when eventually you can just get the volumes later so there’s people like that too. I like the anticipation of waiting and getting the floppies however but that’s just my personal preference. That is interesting with the shared editor I didn’t notice that so maybe there won’t be too much worry but it all depends. Though if squirrel girl could last that long with low sales, I can’t see why it’s not its possible Loki can too. NYCC is coming up with both Kibblesmith and Hiddleston attending so maybe that might help a bit, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

[Raye]

Well, 15,000 is the general chopping black danger zone, so... it really can't afford to lose any more readers, unless the #2 reorder numbers were fairly significant. Some books do survive lower than that, Squirrel Girl, as mentioned, and Moon Girl both survived around the 10k mark, due to trade sales, particularly to younger readers via Scholastic book fairs. But normally digital and trade sales are significantly less than the floppy sales, which still make up the bulk of the sales for most books. Loki may be one of the exceptions to the usual trend, but I wouldn't count on that, which is why I was worried.

[Lambadelta]

What ranking is it at again? #92?

Going by previous sales of comics that ranked that or around that usually the sales are around the 20,000-25,000 mark.

[Raye]

92, yeah. But the positions shift a lot depending on what's going on at the top of the charts, so i am going more on the fact that it is sandwiched between Teen Titans and Nightwing. The last month we have estimates for, Nightwing was at position 148 and had estimates of 15,859, and Teen Titans was at position 139 and had 16,428. Now, either Nightwing saw a boost, or Teen Titans saw a bigger drop than normal, since they are separated there by 9 spots, so I hope Loki's closer to Teen Titans numbers, or maybe both of them saw a boost at the same time for.... some reason. variant covers? We can hope. If it is around 25k, it's probably ok for a while at least. 16k.... it's not going to last, more than likely. I'm not saying it's absolutely doomed, just that there is cause for concern, and we may want to brace ourselves. If Marvel will cancel Future Foundation, which is on those charts well above Loki with it's first issue, before the first issue has even hit the shelves, based on what they project it will probably sell down the line...

[Lambadelta]

I usually go by how comics ranking around that area did rather than look at the previous individual comic sales. There may be a shift in sales but there's not really a shift in how many comics are sold when they get a certain ranking. It's more or less the same or at least around a certain estimate. I would have thought if it was closer to 15,000, it would have ranked lower on the charts. That being said there might have been less sales in August due to there being one less week.

Also this probably doesn't count digital sales either.

Like I said, I'm not really concerned. It's not that I'm being optimistic about it though, it's more I'm not going to be concerned about it, at least not yet anyway.

[Rosebunse]

This is partially why I avoid sale numbers for comics. We all know that most books don't last long and that's OK. We enjoy what we get while we can.

Loki as a book has a few things going for it: the digital and collected sales may be very good, it may do better when the Loki Disney+ series starts, and Marvel may allow it to exist a bit longer since the Asgard side of Marvel doesn't always have that many books.

Now, frankly, we all know that movies and shows haven't really been shown to increase sales, but given this particular character, who knows?

[Raye]

I had another look at the charts for the month I was comparing to, and it looks like all the DC books that month had a cardstock variant, which is listed separately, which played havoc with the positions on the charts for a lot of the books, because DC's books got listed twice. So not only did Nightwing and Teen Titans get shoved down the chart positions, it's also likely that the retailers split the order for the cardstock variant rather than simply add on extra cardstock copies. so, basically, Lambadelta may be right and it's actually closer to 25k, since both of them had 9-11 thousand cardstock copies sold. the month before that anomalous month, Teen titans sold 24k and Nightwing sold 22k. Which still isn't great for a #2, but it's not instantly in the deathzone either, and it will have a chance to have those reorders kick in.

[Rosebunse]

I had another look at the charts for the month I was comparing to, and it looks like all the DC books that month had a cardstock variant, which is listed separately, which played havoc with the positions on the charts for a lot of the books, because DC's books got listed twice. So not only did Nightwing and Teen Titans get shoved down the chart positions, it's also likely that the retailers split the order for the cardstock variant rather than simply add on extra cardstock copies. so, basically, Lambadelta may be right and it's actually closer to 25k, since both of them had 9-11 thousand cardstock copies sold. the month before that anomalous month, Teen titans sold 24k and Nightwing sold 22k. Which still isn't great for a #2, but it's not instantly in the deathzone either, and it will have a chance to have those reorders kick in.

I think the key thing is, will this book lose numbers drastically or will it maintain what it has? Or will it be like Deadpool where even if the character doesn't sell, Marvel just has a Deadpool book because they want to have a Deadpool book out?

As for the podcast, I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of Loki because, well, there are other books and the X-Men corner or the MU is doing something very interesting right now.

But again, we get what we can while we can. Loki is at least associated with Thor, so he'll never be entirely out.

I mean, I'm a Morbius fan. Do you guys have any idea how annoying that can be? Every couple of years, writers remember that he exists, only for him to disappear for years inbetween.

[Raye]

oh i wasn't saying i was worried about the light Loki content in the podcast, just commenting that it wasn't a lot. Especially after the last one had me going over the character limit. One of the hosts is a massive X-Men fan, so he asked X-Men questions, and Kibblesmith's portion of the show wasn't all that long, no big deal.

And if his second issue is around 23k, then it can lose like a thousand readers a month and still go 12 issues. I hope it stabilizes to a slower attrition before then, but losing a thousand a month is sadly a bit more typical, and the issue 3 and 4 drops will likely be larger. Books teypically shed readers quickly for the first 4-5 issues, but then the attrition slows. But at least that means we get 2 arcs minimum rather than just one. Though if the re-orders are significant enough we may be able to go a bit longer.

And one of the reasons I really want this book to be able to go for at least 12 issues and am worried about sales is because of Thor, not just because I want a Loki solo. We don't know who the new writer will be, or how nostalgia focused they will be. If Loki is in his own book, and it's not dead in the water right from the start, that offers him protection from being reverted to classic status quo by the new writer. As long as he has his own book, probably no villain reversion, this book is his armor.

Also, Deadpool has never, ever, dropped into cancellation territory. It's maybe not selling as hot as it has at times in the past, but it's still selling like 26k 12 issues in, that's plenty enough to make it profitable. Marvel would axe it if it was losing money, same as any other book.

[Rosebunse]

Really? Deadpool was doing that good? Even the last run? Well, damn. No one was talking about it so I assumed that it wasn't doing too well.

As for the next Thor writer, I think we have a few contenders. Ewing or Cates are in the running and I think they would leave Loki alone or, if they want an evil Loki, just use an alternate Loki. Who else it might be? I'm not really sure. It seems like Ewing is getting a push and has been itching to do something big.

If it wasn't those two, then I'm not sure who it could be. And I think many of us, not just here but throughout fhe Marvel fandom, have just so assumed that it would be one of them that of they pick someone else, it would throw us off.

[Raye]

I mean, I doubt Deadpool is doing as well right now as they would have hoped, given how well it has sold in the past, and Kelly Thompson was likely brought aboard to try and turn it around (and I will be checking it out, I love her stuff, and she is bringing in one of my personal favorite rarely used characters, Elsa Bloodstone) but it's sill selling enough to turn a profit.

I would be happy with either Ewing or Cates, but you never know, it could be almost anyone. I'd think they'd want someone who can create some buzz though, so only certain writers that have some name recognition are likely in the running.

[Rosebunse]

Also, sort of have to agree with Kibblesmith about Deadpool. We saw Duggan try and make a Loki event and it didn't turn out well. He's just too closed off, you can't receal what exactly he's playing at or his scheme until the end, and it's hard to focus other characters around him.

Deadpool is a much more open book and is widely connected to plenty of parts of the MU. He's as schemey as you want him to be, but can also be pretty dumb.

Actually, I think Loki not really having a scheme up and going in this current book is both a plus and a negative. It leaves the book feeling rather directionless, but that's rather the point. We're meant to feel to understand why Loki might make such an obviously bad deal.

[Raye]

I wouldn't call InfinityWhatever a Loki event, nor would i place it's failure on Loki's shoulders. It was spinning out of Guardians of the Galaxy more than anything else, Loki just happened to have a sort of major part to play in it, but so did a number of other characters. And I think it's failure was just because it was kind of a muddled mess, and a lot of the events did spin out of GotG, which not many people were reading.

And I think Loki has a scheme in this book, I mean, he did ask to join the Avengers, that's likely got a scheme attached to it, even if it's not a bad one. It's just early yet, so we haven't seen everything he's got in the works.