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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Whelp, guess this thread is done now. Clearly, there's no coming back from War of the Realms #1. yep. It's all over. Dunno what they're gonna do with the rest of the issues, but... I mean, that was pretty decisive.

    spoilers:
    So yeah, Odin (and one of his ravens) apparently gets offed by some Dark Elf assassins, then Loki arrives bloody and battered on Thor's boat, but SURPRISE! it was actually Malekith, who teleported him to Jotunheim. Thor shoulda listened to Thori, who tried to warn him that wasn't actually Loki. Then the invasion of Earth begins for real, many shots of Dark Elves, Trolls and Frost Giants running amok in the streets of New York. (and Aaron writes a really good Spider-Man, it turns out) At which point, Malekith apparently returns from Jotunheim, with the rest of his lieutenants in tow, and in the ensuing confrontation, Laufey picks up Freyja and is about to kill her... when there is a flash of green magic, and Laufey's hand, with Freyja still in it, falls to the ground. Loki's standing there in the air with a big ass magic green sword, and confronts Laufey. Malekith attacks Loki, they fight, Loki says he turned Malekith's assassins into toads, etc. then Dr Strange comes along and says "...I'm going to have to ask you to leave this dimensional plain." and Loki falls to the ground, but Malekith isn't seen for the rest of the issue... Loki tells Freyja that Thor is their only hope and where to find him, she asks why she should believe him this time, at which point he says "because of this, mother" and has some not so kind words with Laufey, after which Laufey.... uh... bites him in half....

    So, yeah. they killed Loki. """killed""" I doubt they'd kill him off just like that, for real, it could be an illusion and there was some weirdness with his death. As mentioned, after Dr Strange banished them from the plain, Malekith actually was gone, but Loki wasn't, so that was weird. Why was Malekith banished but not Loki? My bet is that there is an illusion happening here, created at the moment Strange cast his spell. Possibly Strange himself is an illusion being worn by the real Loki, Strange had not appeared in the issue before that unless you count one panel of the Sanctum Sanctorum. Also we have Squirrel Girl to consider. Now, some of this may just be down to making things work for Squirrel Girl's story, but all the same there is one odd detail in the Squirrel Girl pages. Cap walks/flies right past Loki and Doreen and doesn't comment about Loki being there at all. Doreen was in civvies and had already tucked her tail away, so him thinking she's just an average citizen is understandable, but Loki was wearing his whole outfit, horns and all, Cap would have noticed that, I'm sure. Unless Loki was hiding his true appearance from Cap. So there is some precedent in the same scene of Loki hiding behind illusions. Obviously we have already seen that he does come back in Thor #12, though I guess that may be the afterlife, I'm thinking there has to be more to it than that, they wouldn't show that, and have it take up at minimum 4 pages, probably a lot more, if it didn't contribute something to the larger story, so Loki must have more to contribute. Also, we know Loki gets reincarnated when he dies, so at worst we get a new Loki. Another thing I noticed, which may be nothing, but could explain the time travel aspect of things, is that when Odin was killed (? again, i doubt that's the end of him) one raven was killed, but we saw the wing of his other raven flying away. If the surviving raven is Munnin (memory), that may be how Loki sees the past. But that one is not based on much. the issue did say he was spending some time with his father, and well, it seems doubtful right now that it means Laufey, so if Odin and Muninn survive, it could be that. Or they meet in the afterlife. Either way, I doubt they're out for good.
    end of spoilers


    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post

    It's--dare I say--nice to see him look so horrified in the flashback, or whatever it is. It really shows how far he's come. I'm also betting Loki was behind the conflict somehow. I'm just wondering how it could tie into spending time with his father...
    Yeah, as i said above, I think how he reacts to things, and what he feels, is the true measure of how he's changed, not so much his actions. As for how it could tie into spending time with his father, i guess i answered that jut above... maybe.


    Also, as far as Avengers goes, I'm wondering if the Celestials are actually the help arriving from the skies (or however the solicit put it). Now, whether or not Loki could have foreseen this is another matter (if it does happen). Curing the virus was the most logical and humane course of action -- it also left the Celestials indebted. I've been wondering why Loki would choose such a threat solely to get the Avengers back together when a less dangerous one might have sufficed (risk vs. reward), but if he guessed the Avengers might gain Celestial allies (or temporary allies - if I were writing, I'd have them consider their debt filled after the event was over), the risk becomes worth it when you consider the outlook for Earth in the War of the Realms.
    Oh, the Celestials ar an option, it would fit... but the Naglfar Armada is also still out there. 2 Chekov's Guns, both can fit the solicit text... hm....

    On a different note, I was reading the free Pre War of the Realms book that's available for free on Comixology, and there was a bit about Loki.

    spoilers:

    Number one, Aaron said that he was on Loki's side when asked about allegiances, but went on to basically state that everything he's done in the past four years or so was his own way of doing his part to prepare for the war. Number 2, he mentioned a bit about Loki trying to see if he could have a relationship with Laufey, which may have been misdirection, but could also have been part of the reason why Loki saved him. Number 3, he said there's a big Loki moment in the first issue of War of the Realms. Fingers crossed for something good!
    end of spoilers

    I'm hoping for a big payoff from all the work Loki's done in this event--out of all the characters, he's arguably put in the most effort, even more than Thor (who was busy with other noble pursuits).
    Heh, it's nice to have your interpretation of a character's actions confirmed by the writer himself. I swear, I hadn't read that when I posted the other day. Well part of it, anyway. I was a bit off though, about how Loki felt about Laufey, I thought he was taking a more calculating approach, and was just using him, but maybe not. He seems to be over that now, though.
    Last edited by Raye; 04-03-2019 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #122
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    But there are many stories of people eating by giants and surviving, also I believe you are right that the strange there was a illusion but what a way to go . Despite how the odison family fights each other Frigga’s cry was heartfelt . And talk about shock to the other hero’s this is no spring prom this is real war , even if the villains ride winged tigers .

  3. #123
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    I have to say that this is disappointing. I was holding out on pretty much everything because i was hoping to have something good to actually dive into with Loki but it's not so great for the character (although "death" is better than a heel turn). If this is some sort of illusion, I doubt we're going to find out any time soon, thus prolonging my hiatus. I'm sorry I can't contribute to this thread, I just miss having Loki regularly and not as a glorified extra.

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I mean, to be blunt, I don't know what else you were expecting, since he doesn't have a solo book, and he's been a supporting character (though an important one) in the leadup. It would be nice to have a solo, of course, but... few characters do, in the grand scheme of things, and sometimes you just have to take what's there, and it can still be a lot of fun. MOST characters spend most of their time as 'a glorified extra' IF they're lucky. Hell, Loki went like 50 years until he got a solo. He's had it pretty good, compared to most. For a supporting character, he's appeared A LOT in the past several years, in various events, story arcs, etc. in not just Thor but elsewhere as well. Not all of them were to my tastes, but a lot were really fun, and following the whole thing has been pretty enjoyable to me overall. It's been more of a puzzle to piece together rather than one story, and if you only read it in a surface way, rather than thinking things though and reading a bit deeper, it kinda appeared for a while that he'd turned heel again, but still, it's been fun. We've had Dr Strange where he was sorta-kinda the co-star for the arc he was in, and was handled very well, Infinity Wars, where he played a very major part (I personally didn't like how Duggan wrote him but some others seemed fine with it, and I can't deny he played a major part, in a story where he played a key role in saving the universe) was a team member on Asgardians of the Galaxy, (in an arc that seems to be feeding into the War of the Realms situation, another clue he's not out of the picture yet), currently teaming up with Wolverine in a mini, he's had guest appearances in Thor, Avengers, Squirrel Girl, etc. And many of those have been working towards the same overarching plot. So even though it's not a solo, if put together, it's the next best thing. It's actually quite a lot, added together, I don't think we have ever gone a month where he hasn't appeared at least once, frequently he appears 2 or 3 times a month. Hell, this month, he appears in, at minimum, FOUR BOOKS. War of the Realms, Thor, Squirrel Girl, and Infinity Watch. Maybe more, if he appears in issue 2 of War of the Realms, or Avengers. We should be grateful for what we have, fans of some characters would kill for the kind of exposure he has been getting. I have faves that go months or even years between appearances, and have never had a solo, ever. If you're just skipping everything until he's got a new solo or whatever, I'm sorry, but you've probably got a lot more waiting ahead of you. We need to roll with things and appreciate what we have, instead of focusing on what we don't. I'm not saying everyone has to love everything, but there has actually been a lot of fun stuff with him, even if we get it in smaller bites. I know, i miss having him in a starring role, but that doesn't mean there's no enjoyment to be had in what we have gotten.

    Also, as I said before, I very much doubt that was actually the end for him. I think he will come into play in the finale, bare minimum, and since War of the Realms ships every 2 weeks, that's just 3 months away. Also, Squirrel Girl is out in just a week, and Thor the week after that, with Loki in the previews for both. While Squirrel Girl appears to be taking place shortly before the finale of this issue, Thor #12 seems like it takes place after, where we will see how this whole thing resolves, and what his status is, if it was an illusion, and if not, how likely it is he's coming back, what he's doing next, and so on. We know he's in it as the central focus for a minimum of 4 pages, likely more, since I very much doubt they'd just cut it off after the pages we've seen, it's clearly a small part of a much longer scene, it may be an issue dedicated solely to him, (he was the only character mentioned in the solicit, after all) and if the 'dad' he's spending time with is Odin, it may be the first step in repairing their relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rc1ca View Post
    But there are many stories of people eating by giants and surviving, also I believe you are right that the strange there was a illusion but what a way to go . Despite how the odison family fights each other Frigga’s cry was heartfelt . And talk about shock to the other hero’s this is no spring prom this is real war , even if the villains ride winged tigers .
    I dunno, there was, like blood, and stuff, and I think surviving inside Laufey may be worse than death lol. It's just hard to accept this as a real death, when we know Loki can manage illusions like this with ease, and we just saw him fake Thor's death to the point where he went to the afterlife not even a year ago, in a story also written by Aaron. If it is real, yeah that will be disappointing. I just have a hard time believing it is, until we see more. Freyja seemed to believe it though, yeah, and she seemed very distraught. She's probably regretting playing it cool and distant with him recently.

  5. #125
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    I agree that we'll know more after the Thor issue, though having to wait is bugging me. Even so, I don't see why they'd use the issue (of Thor, which is one of the main titles involved) for a character whose part is done. It can be fun to indulge in backstory and the like, but I can't see using that space for it in this case if it's not going to have impact on the present. That, and it appeared to me that Loki expected what was coming, and didn't try to stop it. I wonder if whatever plan he has requires him to die.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I have to say that this is disappointing. I was holding out on pretty much everything because i was hoping to have something good to actually dive into with Loki but it's not so great for the character (although "death" is better than a heel turn). If this is some sort of illusion, I doubt we're going to find out any time soon, thus prolonging my hiatus. I'm sorry I can't contribute to this thread, I just miss having Loki regularly and not as a glorified extra.
    Yeah, it's been hard being a Loki fan the past few months. Plus with work and family and Age of X-Man going on...It's a fun read, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rc1ca View Post
    But there are many stories of people eating by giants and surviving, also I believe you are right that the strange there was a illusion but what a way to go . Despite how the odison family fights each other Frigga’s cry was heartfelt . And talk about shock to the other hero’s this is no spring prom this is real war , even if the villains ride winged tigers .
    I'm torn on if this was an illusion or not. As Raye pointed out, a new Loki will soon just replace the old one when they die. So perhaps Loki has just decided to weaponize this power? Of course, it makes a lot of sense that Loki would just use an illusion of some sort. Of course, Laufey might have noticed something like that...

    But we'll see!

    I agree about Freya, she did seem horrified. Even though she has her own issues with Loki, she probably never, ever wanted to lose him like that. And that goes for the other heroes too. Most of them don't like Loki, but none of them would have wanted to see him go down like that. Even if this is just a trick, the fact that Laufey ATE his own son, fulfilling a threat we've heard him make before, is just so incredibly disturbing.

    I hope we see Loki and Odin interact, especially since I think Aaron hasn't butchered their relationship too badly. In Avengers, we saw that Odin really couldn't bring himself to actually kill Loki, even if he thought it was the best decision.

    In fact, I feel like this whole story is making a weird argument that Loki is the weird glue that holds the family together.

  7. #127
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    @Raye I hear you. It's not really about wanting a solo (though I'm obviously not against it) it's just that comics are rather expensive from my end and I can't really splurge on all these different books just to follow Loki. The most I was willing to do was do that with Thor since it's a relationship I care about as opposed to say squirrel girl or Dr Strange. Because Aaron is writing him, I was waiting to see where his story was leading and this issue just, let's just say I can't take the idea of his death (which I read more as even less Loki appearing). And if it's a fake out (highly probable with the character) I don't think it will be resolved quickly hence my hiatus comment.

    Marvel has already gotten rid of other beloved characters I enjoyed reading, I don't want him joining that department just yet. I have one other character book I buy but at this rate, I may find myself without a single marvel book to read and I don't want that.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    @Raye I hear you. It's not really about wanting a solo (though I'm obviously not against it) it's just that comics are rather expensive from my end and I can't really splurge on all these different books just to follow Loki. The most I was willing to do was do that with Thor since it's a relationship I care about as opposed to say squirrel girl or Dr Strange. Because Aaron is writing him, I was waiting to see where his story was leading and this issue just, let's just say I can't take the idea of his death (which I read more as even less Loki appearing). And if it's a fake out (highly probable with the character) I don't think it will be resolved quickly hence my hiatus comment.

    Marvel has already gotten rid of other beloved characters I enjoyed reading, I don't want him joining that department just yet. I have one other character book I buy but at this rate, I may find myself without a single marvel book to read and I don't want that.
    Comics are expensive, let's be real here. You have to know your limits not just on your money, but your time. It is exhausting to keep track of certain characters, but especially Loki because of this event and all the prep these creative teams have done. It doesn't help that there are so many good books across all of the lines right. The nice thing about this thread is it can let everyone get their Loki fix and keep track of him without ruining their budgets.

  9. #129
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Sorry, I got the impression it was more of a boycott or something, until he got a solo. I get that comics can be expensive, but if you would be able to afford a solo monthly, maybe just get Thor? I promise, it's better than some people make it seem. though i guess it's a little late for that, since Aaron is just about done with his run now. And comixology frequently has BOGOs and other sales for Marvel. (recently i got every single Captain Marvel trade for 22 dollars, it was like 96 dollars off, thanks to a Captain Marvel sale paired with a BOGO. there's a reason why I only sub to a few series, Thor being one, and get the rest in (digital) trades later when they have sales.) I mean, better late than never. There is also Marvel Unlimited, or Comixology Unlimited, if you don't mind being a bit late.

    Anyway. I have been thinking things through a bit more. And I think it may be that he actually did die, but I hope with a plan to come back. See, the thing with fate being offline at the moment, is if Loki is reincarnated, there's no one there to hand out a fate to the reincarnated body, making the new body a completely blank slate, so it is possible it would default to what he is now, or at the very least there would be no moral conundrum with uploading a backup to the body, like there was with Kid Loki because it might be just a husk. He may be literally unkillable until fate is back in place. We dunno exactly what the delay is on him coming back, but it does seem to be at minimum a few days to a week or so, based on what happened with Kid Loki, so he may have some time in the afterlife to get things done there. On the other hand, it may be that with no fate to upload a new fate into a new reincarnation, he may be facing permadeath, and that would be no good.

    Not sure if i favor the above, or an illusion, like i outlined before. Either way, i remain optimistic that this isn't a permanent thing, though Thor #12 may change things there.

  10. #130
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    Damn, girl, those are some killer sales! I applaud you on that one!

    Yeah, Thor is certainly one of the best books right now. It isn't a waste of funds.

    God help anyone even trying to read every single War of the Realms tie-ins. Let us pray for them.

    I guess it depends what "permadeath" means with Loki. Does it mean the character dies and is never brought back? Does it mean that this particular Loki dies and just another takes its place?

    Personally, I'm not sure if fate being out of play would really mean that he wouldn't be reincarnated. We don't know exactly how gods get their souls, but it seems with Loki, it's just a natural process that will be done eventually. But the more I think about it, the more I see your point. The resulting being might be very, very unlike any Loki we have had, to the point where he just isn't Loki.

    Honestly, I'm sure Loki ever has gone back to the afterlife since this started. We never see him, there's never really any bright white light or anything. Rather, I think his soul just goes away and is reformed and reformated into a new body, his personality and looks and even powers dependent on his prior purpose. But again, that's just a guess.

    My one issue with this being an illusion is that it seems like Laufey would notice if Loki wasn't Loki. Loki, would that illusion really be able to withstand being eaten and chewed up? But then again, making it look like he died in such a graphic manner would really make it look like he was out of the game.

  11. #131
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    Couldn't it be an illusion though since he shows up in the squirrel girl tie in? And assuming the checklist at the end of the first issue is the chronological order how events play out, it's located after War of the Realms #2, Thor #12 and others. Maybe something happens that shows it really was just a really good illusion after all that or somehow survives getting eaten? I remember reading in the free War of the Realms preview comic that Thor #12 bounces off loki's moment so it sounds like we'll probably learn more then. Also sorry for budding in I'm new here and its just been on my mind whether or not its an illusion to appear like he got killed or he really did just die.

  12. #132
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah, but would it be any more of a stretch than Warbringer not noticing him turning that guy into a puddle of gore wasn't real? And that he didn't actually have the Time Stone ripped from his guts? Making it seem like someone had died when they really hadn't has become a bit of a standard move for him lately, and people seem to keep buying it. And even if we restrict it to just things Aaron has written, they didn't die, because presumably he didn't actually want them to because he was just messing with her, but those illusions he created in the many Loki's scene back when Jane fought him seemed solid enough and they like caught fire from her lightning and stuff. Would it be such a stretch to have one that felt crunchy in the mouth and bled?

    This is why I am torn, i think both ideas have merit and could work.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Yeah, but would it be any more of a stretch than Warbringer not noticing him turning that guy into a puddle of gore wasn't real? And that he didn't actually have the Time Stone ripped from his guts? Making it seem like someone had died when they really hadn't has become a bit of a standard move for him lately, and people seem to keep buying it. And even if we restrict it to just things Aaron has written, they didn't die, because presumably he didn't actually want them to because he was just messing with her, but those illusions he created in the many Loki's scene back when Jane fought him seemed solid enough and they like caught fire from her lightning and stuff. Would it be such a stretch to have one that felt crunchy in the mouth and bled?

    This is why I am torn, i think both ideas have merit and could work.
    You have a very, very good point.

    The only thing keeping me from agreeing with you is that the theory of him going to the afterlife to get Odin back makes a lot of sense too.

    There's so many ways this could go!

    One thing I like about this event is how, while it is this very big event, it seems very focused on Thor's family. Whatever happens, it has to involve them all coming back together.

  14. #134
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    yeah, it could go so many ways. But yes, I think a key theme leading up has been the family, and how they have become fragmented and separated from one another. I think they will need to come together, Thor, Loki, Balder, Angela, Freyja and Odin, maybe even Tyr, if we have some afterlife shenanigans going on, in order to win.

    and hi, DragonsRazor! sorry, i missed your reply, i think i must have had this sitting open before i replied (busy day yesterday) and missed yours because i never refreshed it before replying. Yeah, I'm betting Thor #12 will answer a lot of questions, it could be him experiencing a flashback, could be time travel, could be some kind of afterlife thing. But if it takes place after his uh, big moment in War of the Realms, it is a sign he's not out for the count just yet, and there was SOME kind of shenanigans going on.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    yeah, it could go so many ways. But yes, I think a key theme leading up has been the family, and how they have become fragmented and separated from one another. I think they will need to come together, Thor, Loki, Balder, Angela, Freyja and Odin, maybe even Tyr, if we have some afterlife shenanigans going on, in order to win.

    and hi, DragonsRazor! sorry, i missed your reply, i think i must have had this sitting open before i replied (busy day yesterday) and missed yours because i never refreshed it before replying. Yeah, I'm betting Thor #12 will answer a lot of questions, it could be him experiencing a flashback, could be time travel, could be some kind of afterlife thing. But if it takes place after his uh, big moment in War of the Realms, it is a sign he's not out for the count just yet, and there was SOME kind of shenanigans going on.
    The exact time placement of #12 is key here. If it is set before the events we see here, which it very well might be, then we'll still be totally confused. Personally, I still think a good chunk of the book will be Loki hanging out with Odin.

    Also, on an unrelated note, does anyone else think that the last God of War game stole from Gillen's Journey into Mystery?

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